Howard Dean Rally
Anyone going to the Sleepless Summer Tour stop in Bryant Park, Manhattan tonight?
http://www.deanforamerica.com/
http://photos.deanforamerica.com/gallery/19251/1/679724
http://www.deanforamerica.com/
http://photos.deanforamerica.com/gallery/19251/1/679724
Comments
Originally posted by chu_bakka
Anyone going to the Sleepless Summer Tour stop in Bryant Park, Manhattan tonight?
http://www.deanforamerica.com/
http://photos.deanforamerica.com/gallery/19251/1/679724
No surprise to some around here, but I'm becoming a big Dean supporter. I just wish he'd swing through SoCal sometime.
Originally posted by chu_bakka
When is the California primary?
March 2nd, 2004
Also, I love how everyone's trying to pin Dean as an ultra-elitist far left liberal when that is absolutely untrue if you examine his record as governor. Sure, he's vocal about his displeasure with the Iraq war. So are a lot of Americans. To disqualify him for being supposedly "too dovish" is ridiculous and insults our intelligence.
He supported the Gulf War and the Afghanistan campaign. He balanced Vermont's budget all 11 years while he was governor.
He may be liberal but he's by no means not of the mainstream.
Dean may be the candidate who has the ability to appeal to both the party activisits - especially the anti-war contingent - as well as the more mainstream swing voters. Clinton did this very well.
Republicans of course have had this triangulation figured out for a long time now. It's how W. won. He appealed to the soccer moms in 2000 because he was pitched as a compassionate conservative, but he also appealed to the loyal party conservatives, because they knew he was really one of theirs.
Lieberman hasn't been able to do that, because he's just been pegged as pure moderate Democrat. I thought he might appeal to the party people because of his loss with Gore in 2000, but so far it doesn't seem that way. Gephart could possibly pull that off, maybe Edwards. Kerry seems to be pure establishment Dem at this point, but we'll see. And if Clark gets in the race, which is looking like a strong possibility, I don't see a general appealing to the activist anti-war liberals.
So maybe Dean's got a chance. At this point, we know he appeals to the party activists, but it's still in doubt as to whether he'll appeal to the average mainstream moderates. Somehow I doubt it, once the Republicans get through with him.
I don't think Lieberman has the charisma or energy to get the democratic nomination.
Kerry would be great but he too suffers from almost Gore like stiffness.
I think Gephart is too much of the Washington establishment... he's good but...
I don't know much about Edwards... he kinda rubs me the wrong way... not sure why.
We'll have to see how they shake out in debates and on substance... but right now Dean has the passion and the message... he's not scared to take on the White House and express the frustration many American's are having now. I think he's more moderate than many realize.
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/26/politics/26MEMO.html
Originally posted by chu_bakka
No matter who democrats nominate the Republican's will try to tear down with exaggeration and rumor...
...
Yea they're evil. The democrats are above that.
Originally posted by Scott
Yea they're evil. The democrats are above that.
Don't put words in our mouths. Just stating the obvious regardless of which side of the fence you sit.
Democrats will try to paint Bush as a liar and Republicans will try to paint ____________ as a wimp.
Originally posted by Scott
Yea they're evil. The democrats are above that.
Not above it, just nowhere near as good at it.
Originally posted by chu_bakka
Here's a good article about the trouble the "compassionate" republican is going to have on the campaign trail.
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/26/politics/26MEMO.html
That's a very good article. It really highlights some things about Bush that drives me nuts. Dubya has this nasty habit of attending public events, like the Boys & Girls Club, where he loves to speak about love, compassion, community service, whatever. He usually then goes on to talk about how much he supports their program and what not. And then...he DOES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! Even worse, like the Boys & Girls Club, he does the exact opposite and cuts funding either by a sizeable margin or cuts it all-together.
Now, I'm a pragmatist and I understand that deep spending cuts were needed in order to pay for his TAX CUTS and, of course, the war. My problem is that Dubya shouldn't be making promises he knows good and well he can't honor.
But "Al Gore said he invented the internet" is the kind of thing I'm talking about. And he never said it.
Try reading Joe Conason "Big Lies".
Originally posted by BRussell
Not above it, just nowhere near as good at it.
Sucks for democrats then huh? Better be good at what you do, as oppose to sucking at it.
Originally posted by Northgate
As a side note, I love how Carl Rove is just tickled pink that The Doc might actually pull off the nomination. But, with our soldiers in Iraq facing TWO one-year terms, the outrageous $460B deficit, and drastically falling approval ratings, I think Rove's hubris may be the administration's downfall. Bush has a lot to do to shore up his re-election.
Also, I love how everyone's trying to pin Dean as an ultra-elitist far left liberal when that is absolutely untrue if you examine his record as governor. Sure, he's vocal about his displeasure with the Iraq war. So are a lot of Americans. To disqualify him for being supposedly "too dovish" is ridiculous and insults our intelligence.
Karl Rove WOULD love for Dean to get the nomination. More than one pundit has said Dean will get shredded...especially in debate. And BTW, he IS liberal. I guess that's what we are down to now...not even being able to admit someone is liberal.
The Dems would be FOOLS to nominate Dean. It's going to be John Kerry (aka: The French Looking Candidate).
So what would make Kerry a more "moderate" candidate? The first thing conservatives do when they see a threat is call someone a liberal. Conservatives have distorted what liberal means for so long that the term has no meaning in the political discourse.
I think Dean would wipe the floor with Bush. As would Kerry... but I think Dean can energize democrats in a more forceful way.
And how does Kerry.... an Irish guy... look french? Ever been to france? ever seen what the average french guy looks like?
Originally posted by chu_bakka
Dean and Kerry are pretty close on all the issues...
So what would make Kerry a more "moderate" candidate? The first thing conservatives do when they see a threat is call someone a liberal. Conservatives have distorted what liberal means for so long that the term has no meaning in the political discourse. ...Snip..
I agree. The R's always lambasted Clinton for being an extreme liberal, ingnoring the fact that he was a centrist after the medical coverage fiasco. Some have described
Clinton as an Eisenhower Republican - I think that's probably not too far from the truth.
Easy labels are just that, easy. They allow you to avoid any thoughtful discussion of underlying issues. Why is liberalism bad? What is liberalism anyway? Big Government? Tax and Spend? What is Conservativism? Why is it good or bad? Spend but not tax? The party of unfunded mandates? Please, quit with the "he's a liberal"
and argue why the American People, not Carl Rove - who only gets one vote, by the way - would be politically opposed to 1) a balanced budget; 2) healthcare for everyone; 3) holding the commander in chief to a high level of honesty, especially concerning things like foreign invasions; etc.
I do think Dean has a liability in the civil unions thing (most Americans aren't in favor if you believe the latest polls), but he wants to leave it to the states to decide. Regardless of your feeling on the substance giving the states the decision is the heart of federalism, which has always been associated with Republican values. But, the Republicans will ignore that bit.
Thoth
And Dean endorses Cilvil Unions... he doesn't even call it marriage. Obviously it's a state issue...but the republican's will turn it into an US against THEM issue.
But I doubt Pat Buchannan will get another prime time slot during the Republican convention. Here's hoping DeLay will pull through though. Or Rick Santorum.
Originally posted by SDW2001
Karl Rove WOULD love for Dean to get the nomination. More than one pundit has said Dean will get shredded...especially in debate.
By Bush?
I reckon its going to be Dean or Kerry. I liked Kerry, but he really needs to manage his image...stuff like using that picture of him and John Lennon has to be dropped.
At this point I peg Dean as the candidate most likely to oust Bush. A lot can happen in a year though.