**CONFIRMED** They hate us!
According to US gummint research.
Highlights include:
"In the spring of 2003, only 1% of Jordanians took a favourable view of the US compared with 25% in the summer of 2002."
Where's the dominoes? Where are the nervous leaders in Syria and Jordan as their population demand their own regime change? Who, apart from those loonies in the WH, think the US / UK are the great liberators? When will they realise that sorting out Israel / Palestine is ACTUALLY the most pressing need?
Is the world safer, with more pissed off people with exactly the same access to WMD as they had before Iraq?
Who was right dammit, who was wrong?
VOTE. THOSE. ARSEHOLES. OUT.
Highlights include:
"In the spring of 2003, only 1% of Jordanians took a favourable view of the US compared with 25% in the summer of 2002."
Where's the dominoes? Where are the nervous leaders in Syria and Jordan as their population demand their own regime change? Who, apart from those loonies in the WH, think the US / UK are the great liberators? When will they realise that sorting out Israel / Palestine is ACTUALLY the most pressing need?
Is the world safer, with more pissed off people with exactly the same access to WMD as they had before Iraq?
Who was right dammit, who was wrong?
VOTE. THOSE. ARSEHOLES. OUT.
Comments
Originally posted by Scott
Hysteria
Uh huh.
I'm a western capitalist who wants to keep that system going, and I'm pissed off.
How do you think borderline terrorists feel?
Originally posted by Harald
Uh huh.
I'm a western capitalist who wants to keep that system going, and I'm pissed off.
How do you think borderline terrorists feel?
Yup.
What's especially disturbing is the increased instability in the region which the breakdown of Israeli/Palestinian relations and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have produced (OK, Afghanistan was unstable before, but it's not really hugely stabler now).
For example, look at the potential for the mobilisation of the Shi'ite Iraqi population (hmm, lots of weapons + civil disorder + a minority already not necessarily in sympathy with late capitalist political ideologies = bad news). This is the kind of flashpoint to turn disgruntled kiddies into organised killers.
One can also easily see the borderline cases heading off to cut their teeth in guerrilla wars in places like Iraq...
1) Most (meaning more than 50.0%) Arabs will despise us as long as we continue to blindly support Israel in the public eye, regardless of whether their actions deserve support. Name a presidential candidate who is not inclined to give Israel carte blanche as far as public support for their policies. I can't either....
2) Even if we did treat the Israeli government with a more weary eye, most (see above) Arabs would continue hating us anyway. It's not hard to find an excuse to hate someone if you really want to. It's a culture thing. Great Satan and all that....
3) Appeasement is a bad foreign policy tactic in any event.
4) And on a personal level, at this point, I don't give a rat fuk who "likes us" and who doesn't. Especially people who would slit my throat if they had half a chance, because I listen to impure music, drink beer and chase women in bikinis. Well OK, I used to chase them when I was young. Regardless, how do you reason with a person / culture like that? If someone wants me dead before knowing the first thing about me as a person, I don't care what their opinion is (of me or my country).
Their opinion is not worth the breath its carried on.
There has always been a sort of unspoken disdain for the United States and its wealth / power projection anyway; it's nothing new. We're just more keenly aware of it now. And it's not just Arabs either. All sorts of people think we suck. Ask around....
Originally posted by Moogs
You know, I used to be more worried about this very thing. But then I realized something: I'm supposed to feel bad that a completely unscientific poll indicates we are disliked by all Jordanians (or Saudis or anyone else over there)? Here's my take on the whole "gosh what can we do to get them to like us" thing:
1) Most (meaning more than 50.0%) Arabs will despise us as long as we continue to blindly support Israel in the public eye, regardless of whether their actions deserve support. Name a presidential candidate who is not inclined to give Israel carte blanche as far as public support for their policies. I can't either....
2) Even if we did treat the Israeli government with a more weary eye, most (see above) Arabs would continue hating us anyway. It's not hard to find an excuse to hate someone if you really want to. It's a culture thing. Great Satan and all that....
3) Appeasement is a bad foreign policy tactic in any event.
4) And on a personal level, at this point, I don't give a rat fuk who "likes us" and who doesn't. Especially people who would slit my throat if they had half a chance, because I listen to impure music, drink beer and chase women in bikinis. Well OK, I used to chase them when I was young. Regardless, how do you reason with a person / culture like that? If someone wants me dead before knowing the first thing about me as a person, I don't care what their opinion is (of me or my country).
Their opinion is not worth the breath its carried on.
There has always been a sort of unspoken disdain for the United States and its wealth / power projection anyway; it's nothing new. We're just more keenly aware of it now. And it's not just Arabs either. All sorts of people think we suck. Ask around....
Amazing.... I agree 100%
Fellows
Originally posted by Moogs
Their opinion is not worth the breath its carried on.
LALALALALALALALALALALA NOT LISTENING NOT LISTENING WE'RE DOING THE RIGHT THING
They hate us more then they did before.
They have equal (or better) access to WMD then they did before.
Listen to people. Look at yourself. Reduce the risk to your damn nation and mine.
Originally posted by Moogs
[B I listen to impure music, drink beer and chase women in bikinis.[/B]
Personally i don't chase women in bikinis, just naked women
Oups did i say that ?
Originally posted by Harald
According to US gummint research.
Highlights include:
"In the spring of 2003, only 1% of Jordanians took a favourable view of the US compared with 25% in the summer of 2002."
Where's the dominoes? Where are the nervous leaders in Syria and Jordan as their population demand their own regime change? Who, apart from those loonies in the WH, think the US / UK are the great liberators? When will they realise that sorting out Israel / Palestine is ACTUALLY the most pressing need?
Is the world safer, with more pissed off people with exactly the same access to WMD as they had before Iraq?
Who was right dammit, who was wrong?
VOTE. THOSE. ARSEHOLES. OUT.
Too long has Bush and his cronies disregarded the international community and know it is beginning to bear fruit. Good to know the war on terror has been a raging success with most American's feeling less safe than before the "war on terror" in Iraq, Britain warning of a terrorist attack that they predict is inevitable but can't stop.
And you still have to deal with the "axis of evil" in North Korea and sort out the nuclear crisis in Iran. Pity you cant even afford to give your troops in Iraq decent flak jackets to protect themselves from AK-47 fire...
Diplomacy is a game and Bush unfortunately doesn't know the rules...
Originally posted by Powerdoc
Personally i don't chase women in bikinis, just naked women
Oups did i say that ?
Powerdoc you better be careful not to give Harold more (((FEAR))) of those Arab people. If you brag about how you chase naked women that will send those "arab" people into a rage and it might be a threat to Harold's country.
Have some respect to the extreme terrorist minded extreme arabs. Bow down to them as Harold would.
Fellowship
Segovius:
I could take you to two or three bars in Damascus where you'd be guaranteed to indulge your bikini fetish, beer's cheap too and you can get imported. Same in Jordan (worse actually) and Cairo (omg). How many Americans do you think are in the ME right now ? How many have had their throats slit ? Been attacked even ?
I have no idea on any of the three counts, but I suspect if the number is low, it's because there are very few Americans there, much less Americans who make themselves known as such (vs. say letting someone think they are German, Dutch, whatever). I know if I were in Damascus I wouldn't ride around with my Easy Rider motorcycle helmet, put it that way.
Your stereotype can only really be applied to Taleban Afghanistan...
Are you suggesting there aren't many thousands of devout Muslims in a variety of ME countries, who have a strong disdain for the United States and everything it stands for? I have no doubt there are people of younger generations in the ME who may have some inclination towards the practices of a more free society (bikinis, beer and women for instance), but I suspect these people are not in the majority. If I'm wrong, I guess I'd have to take your word for it but....
Unfortunately the majority of Americans don't want to know anything outside their own narrow borders, mental and physical. That still leaves thousands that do however and these are the ones that know the culture and love to travel to the ME.
I agree most Americans are oblivious to the goings on in other countries around the world, and most don't care enough to know the difference between Egypt and Jordan (Gee, Egypt is where the Pyramids are dude!). However I don't think I'd feel safe travelling to some of the places you noted simply because I was armed with an open mind. I'm sure there are westernized parts of the major cities, but I'm also sure that doesn't speak to the majority opinion in those countries. That phenomenon is a prerequisite to bringing western business to the ME... at least, that's a more likely explanation than the huddled masses yearning to break free.
Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
Powerdoc you better be careful not to give Harold more (((FEAR))) of those Arab people. If you brag about how you chase naked women that will send those "arab" people into a rage and it might be a threat to Harold's country.
Have some respect to the extreme terrorist minded extreme arabs. Bow down to them as Harold would.
Fellowship
I chase naked people too! I take drugs! I hate extremists! I wish the PoTUS was a sexy woman! And if you want to take my rights to these things away I'll fight you! (actually, that probably means you evangelicals as much as your brothers the Taliban, but I digress).
The people we are talking about aren't 'terrorist minded extreme arabs' but ordinary men, women and children who look at the way things are going and get angry. But to you, these people's opinions 'aren't worth the breath it's carried on.'
Maybe to you all Arabs are terrorist minded extremists?
US policy is making even ordinary people pissed off. It is not reducing access to WMD. It is making the world more dangerous.
LALALALALALALALALALALALALALA NOT LISTENING LALALALALALALALALA
Originally posted by Harald
I chase naked people too! I take drugs! I hate extremists! I wish the PoTUS was a sexy woman! And if you want to take my rights to these things away I'll fight you! (actually, that probably means you evangelicals as much as your brothers the Taliban, but I digress).
Harald I was joking with you....
Come on
Fellowship
If the State Deparment says the danger level is manageable and the media says otherwise, I'd go with the State Department's version and travel...
...that said this whole discussion has an aire of mootness (try that on for size Jesse!) to it. I simply don't have the money to travel *anywhere* other than down the street right now.