I want AppleOutsider back.
Look at what AO is now.
It's a shadow of its former self.
It's ugly. It's heated. It doesn't move anywhere. It stands still.
There are people there who never see the light of the other forums. They don't even know that there is a new forum. Yeah, that's right!
Some people have chosen to not even see AO in their forum list.
Others are imprisoned by it, like Powerdoc.
And some are eaten by it, like applenut.
I want to stop AO. I want that AO is like it used to be. Without all the political discussions, all this rage. All this hate. I want AO dead. I don't want that it even exists in this shape.
I want to return it to being a nice forum, where people can spend good time together. I want to give peace a chance. I want AO back.
Who will help me?
It's a shadow of its former self.
It's ugly. It's heated. It doesn't move anywhere. It stands still.
There are people there who never see the light of the other forums. They don't even know that there is a new forum. Yeah, that's right!
Some people have chosen to not even see AO in their forum list.
Others are imprisoned by it, like Powerdoc.
And some are eaten by it, like applenut.
I want to stop AO. I want that AO is like it used to be. Without all the political discussions, all this rage. All this hate. I want AO dead. I don't want that it even exists in this shape.
I want to return it to being a nice forum, where people can spend good time together. I want to give peace a chance. I want AO back.
Who will help me?
Comments
Only they can change it.
Ugh...
I extricated myself from that pit of vipers MONTHS ago. And I'm a better person for it.
Feels really nice to no longer have the urge to tell some people to go **** themselves immediately with a blow torch or sharp object. That'll put lines on your face and gray in your hair, feeling that way.
Originally posted by pscates
It's a complete hell-hole (or at least it was months and months ago). I no longer go there because I have a feeling with all that's going on in the world now (the Ten Commandments thing, the California recall, Iraq, Al Franken, Rush Limbaugh's woes, President Bush simply breathing air and having the audacity to even exist, etc.) it's just a complete mess...and no fun at all.
Ugh...
I extricated myself from that pit of vipers MONTHS ago. And I'm a better person for it.
Feels really nice to no longer have the urge to tell some people to go **** themselves immediately with a blow torch or sharp object. That'll put lines on your face and gray in your hair, feeling that way.
(with gray hair and beard)
Whatcha say sonny?
I have been reducing my posting there and thinking of taking a break myself. It is, I guess a bit addictive thought because most of the folks who have taken breaks have basically had to hide the forum from view. After several failed attempts at a halfway house, I might have to go into a detox center.
Nick
If it were to change then I might like it.
So I vote YES.
It was nice.
Then the political (!) rage came, and when AO couldn't handle it any longer, Fireside Chat was created. As the name implies, it was a place where many fights were fought. The mods were afraid of it, and so the day came when it was killed (This was not the sole reason).
All the anger stopped for some time. Then it came back. It devastated AO.
I don't want to close AO. I don't think this is an option. No, I want that we, the community make an effort to restore it. If this requires to temporarily close AO, then so be it.
On the other hand, I think that AO is a splinter in the eye of many mods and admins here. It might also be a possibility to close AO for the good. Why not? It creates the possibility to start some things over.
But hey, don't forget, we ought to do this together. We are AppleInsider. No-one else.
I am all for it.
We could kill off AO... and replace it...
Or, we could try very hard to change the current AO...
I will support any change, and I will help back up the new enviroment.
What can we do now? ...in terms of getting AO back on track..
Originally posted by Defiant
Look at what AO is now.
It's a shadow of its former self.
It's ugly. It's heated. It doesn't move anywhere. It stands still.
There are people there who never see the light of the other forums. They don't even know that there is a new forum. Yeah, that's right!
Some people have chosen to not even see AO in their forum list.
Others are imprisoned by it, like Powerdoc.
And some are eaten by it, like applenut.
I want to stop AO. I want that AO is like it used to be. Without all the political discussions, all this rage. All this hate. I want AO dead. I don't want that it even exists in this shape.
I want to return it to being a nice forum, where people can spend good time together. I want to give peace a chance. I want AO back.
Who will help me?
Stop living in the past you crazy nutbag. Go eat a chicken foot.
Originally posted by Jambo
The membership turned it into what it is now.
Only they can change it.
I cannot help but reiterate what Jamie says here.
AppleOutsider has turned into a mess because the members have chosen to do so. We gave the members a separate forum (Fireside Chat) for the heated political and religious discussions, but it became such a flame-fest that we had to close it altogether. AppleOutsider, fortunately, has not yet reached the level of bickering and pure hatred that Fireside Chat seemed to foster. We have guidelines and try to enforce them in AppleOutsider but only you and the other members can choose to make the forums a pleasant, civil place for discussion.
If you believe that there are specific members that are causing problems in said forum, please feel free to contact any of the moderators or admins directly. As much as we try to, we can't monitor every single discussion all of the time. On top of that, some of us try to avoid AppleOutsider in the same manner that pscates and \\/\\/ickes said above that they do; so, occasionally things can really get out of hand and none of us will notice.
A few members have actually requested to be locked out of AppleOutsider because they were either too tempted to post angry messages or were too disturbed by the messages there. If you ever would like to be included in this group, contact me or Jonathan or Amorph and one of us will gladly switch your account into that usergroup.
Originally posted by Defiant
Look at what AO is now.
It's a shadow of its former self.
It's ugly. It's heated. It doesn't move anywhere. It stands still.
There are people there who never see the light of the other forums. They don't even know that there is a new forum. Yeah, that's right!
Some people have chosen to not even see AO in their forum list.
Others are imprisoned by it, like Powerdoc.
And some are eaten by it, like applenut.
I want to stop AO. I want that AO is like it used to be. Without all the political discussions, all this rage. All this hate. I want AO dead. I don't want that it even exists in this shape.
I want to return it to being a nice forum, where people can spend good time together. I want to give peace a chance. I want AO back.
Who will help me?
Well, I agree completely. AO used to be fun ... not some place you went to pick a fight/flame war. Sure there were a few, but those were fun too... since there weren't too many.
Now, well, I don't really enjoy it anymore.
Upon a submitted post failing the agreed morays and manners that defines the Mac Community worldwide, the moderators will despatch newly appointed enforcers tae stamp on the offender's computer and tender parts and generally teach them the error o' their ways.
Originally posted by Brad A few members have actually requested to be locked out of AppleOutsider because they were either too tempted to post angry messages...
That would be me. I couldn't trust myself to not wallow in the mud on some of the more outrageous threads (but it's ultimately a headache and not worth the hassle). Now AO doesn't even show in my forum list and so I can't even worry/think about it.
Very cool.
It's a Mac-oriented site, so it feels better coming here just for that stuff anyway. Besides, there are tons of other places on the Internet for people to bicker, carry on and generally act like raging assholes to the third power...
Go look at AO right now. Out of the 25 or so threads I see, only maybe 5 are hot political-type threads. The rest are about movies (several), baseball, TV shows, bands, cars, football, and the like.
I think that's pretty typical for AO.
The directly political threads are about the CIA leak, the CA recall, and one about WMD and war. In other words, what people are talking about right now. There are only two or so overtly partisan food-fight threads: a Bush-bash thread, a Democrat-bash thread, and an Ann Coulter vs. Al Franken thread.
There are also a couple about hot social/political issues like racism in the hospital and planned parenthood.
But by far the majority of threads are just everyday "movies I like" and "how bout them ball-throwers" types of threads.
From what I can tell, some people just don't like to see disagreement of any kind. Some people I guess just get so worked up by seeing a disagreeing point of view that they must have themselves restrained. I don't really get that, but yeah, you're probably better off not reading debate then.
[edit]I remember when I was at home from college in the summer, I would watch Crossfire on CNN. My mom would try to watch it with me, but she literally couldn't physically watch it. It upset her so much to see people arguing like that that she had to leave the room. It was as if she was watching an x-rated ultraviolent movie or something. I thought it was kinda funny, but I guess some people are just like that.
Of course you get into AppleOutsider and realize we all don't think differently from PC's but also from each other.
Mac users are a passionate bunch. I have a lot of respect for people on these forums. Even people with whom I vehemently disagree. I understand that this passion is the basis of alot of what is right and wrong about what happens periodically in AppleOutsider. I just don't think there is a way to remove that passion in the negative aspects and not have it harm the positive aspects.
Nick
*Dodging Rocks*
*Dodging Rotten fruit*
J/K
Nice little sideways dig.
I CAN restrain myself, thank you. I didn't go there for a LONG time before requesting to have it removed from my list. I just didn't really want to see it.
And come off it: it's not "debate", in many cases. It's a free-for-all, and quite mean. And I have other sites I go to where it's a bit more low-key and friendlier and there aren't a certain 5-6 people seemingly going out of their way to muck up a discussion or get personal.
I'm still very much right-of-center and fond of my leanings and beliefs, but this place just doesn't seem like the best place to express it, or hash it out. I got tired of it.
And I get disagreed with ALL THE TIME, so it's not like I can't deal with that either.
You pegged it kind wrong there, B...
Yeah, you take a snapshot of right now (5 threads, you say). But it has, in the past, been MUCH more than that (and, I'd imagine, be so again).
So I'm not some wilting flower chickenshit, afraid to "debate" at all. And to be honest, I do miss taking part in the threads about movies and life and general and so forth.
But you can't tell me with a straight face that much of what goes on in those threads involving politics, religion, society, etc. is reasoned, level-headed and mannered "debate".
Give me a ****ing break.
On balance, it's a pretty vicious, personal and baiting environment. On BOTH sides (and before you - or anyone else - can bring it up, yes...I myself have participated in that at times, to my shame and dismay).
I don't mind "disagreement". I mind bullies and nitpickers and shit-stirrers and I'd rather not have an otherwise great website/forum mingled in with stuff like that. That's my call and I feel better (and enjoy the site more) going with it, so don't let it rattle or vex you TOO much. It ain't worth it.
I enjoy AppleInsider much more as a strict Mac-only place.
You shouldn't ding me - or anyone - for that, or think we're somehow "not up to snuff" or can't stand a little "debate" (when it's rarely that anyway).
Maybe I just prefer to compartmentalize, keeping that sort of stuff to other sites/forums and keeping my Apple and Mac passions separated from all that. For the record, I don't visit or participate in the Lounge area/non-Mac or tech sections of MacNN, orangeinsider.com or arstechnica either.
I don't like to mix the two these days...leaves a weird taste. I came to AppleInsider nearly four years ago for the Mac stuff anyway. All I've really done is return to that and leave the other stuff behind.
Besides, let's get completely honest: I'm never going to change or influence Shawn, giant, pfflam, bunge or anyone else. And they're not going to change or influence me. So after a while, you're just kinda banging your head against a brick wall, saying things they don't believe or agree with and hearing things from them you don't believe or agree with, so why bother? All of them are, from what I can tell, pretty okay fellas and I'd rather meet up with them in other forums where it's Mac-oriented and can actually carry on a normal conversation and not be bickering about stuff and going in circles, trading comebacks and responses for three days over some silly issue that really doesn't affect my life anyway.
Been there, done that. Have NOTHING to show for it either.
See, it's more a "quality of life" issue than anything...
Oh well, it's not AO. I'm over it already.