Moto' Sinking, Takes Titanic with it...
http://slashdot.org/articles/03/10/0...id=126&tid=137
Best quote from this little discussion? 'Semiconductor Sloth like Motorola...'
Reasons for Moto' spinning off chip division is largely due to Apple going with IBM for high end products?
And who drove Apple there for reasons of 'corporate survival'?
Irony.
BIG hints that Apple will drop Moto' like some stinky thing attached to foot. Afterall, when you step in 'smelly', you don't jump up and down on it to punish it...you walk away...(and then sue them for a billion in damages to lost business and marketshare of Mac line...)
This, if true, obviously means IBM has a G3 aka 'G4' altivec inspired usurper at 1.1-1.6 gig to go into Powerbooks/iMacs/eMacs until the 0.09 G5 lands 2nd half 2004?
Still, I guess in my own mind, I'll remember Moto' as the company that produced a fine chip for dem Amigas...back in the day...
Lemon Bon Bon
Best quote from this little discussion? 'Semiconductor Sloth like Motorola...'
Reasons for Moto' spinning off chip division is largely due to Apple going with IBM for high end products?
And who drove Apple there for reasons of 'corporate survival'?
Irony.
BIG hints that Apple will drop Moto' like some stinky thing attached to foot. Afterall, when you step in 'smelly', you don't jump up and down on it to punish it...you walk away...(and then sue them for a billion in damages to lost business and marketshare of Mac line...)
This, if true, obviously means IBM has a G3 aka 'G4' altivec inspired usurper at 1.1-1.6 gig to go into Powerbooks/iMacs/eMacs until the 0.09 G5 lands 2nd half 2004?
Still, I guess in my own mind, I'll remember Moto' as the company that produced a fine chip for dem Amigas...back in the day...
Lemon Bon Bon
Comments
I still see them supplying lower-end CPUs like the G4.
(Can you tell I want a powerbook G5?)
Tim
Smaller, cooler, faster, bigger bandwidth, cheaper, sexier, more fpu pulling power, more mhz, more scalability...er...more PowerTM for yer Mac money.
The distinct impression I got was that Moto' was out on their ear...come the end of next for all product lines.
What's the point of keeping Moto when it's delaying product lines, slow to ramp and expensive and way behind the industry curve?
Apple have the 9xx series for a good few years. The more sales=more R&D and more incentive for IBM to do better.
...and to keep them keen? Maintain a version of 'Intel' X and leading Apps that will run on recompile...fat binaries backup plan...
I'd like to see a 1.6 gig G5 in eMacs by the end of next year...game over Moto' Phona.
Lemon Bon Bon
Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
Afterall, when you step in 'smelly', you don't jump up and down on it to punish it...you walk away...(and then sue them for a billion in damages to lost business and marketshare of Mac line...)
I wonder if Moto spinning the chip division off is for some protection against an Apple suit? Is there any legal basis for the new company to be the one liable in a suit? It would bankrupt the new Moto Chip Co, but protect Motorola.
Maybe I read too much in to all of this..?
Originally posted by Computer_Science_student_GA
Maybe once the ibooks get the IBM 750's and the powerbooks and imac's get the G5 we will finally see Apple close the door on Motorola.
iBooks have been running on IBM 750s since day one, actually. The only CPUs Motorola has sold Apple for the past several years have been G4s (and even some of those came from IBM, when Mot couldn't deliver).
Apple will be free of Motorola as soon as SPS is spun off, technically, since SPS will become independent. Steve will be free to talk more frankly at that point even if Apple continues to buy G4s.
Don't be too quick to count out the G4. It can't summon the raw muscle of the G5 (except in AltiVec code, where it can outrun the G5 clock for clock) but when you take power consumption into account it can hold its own quite well. It's a good chip for the Xserve, and the PowerBook, and possibly even the iBook down the road.
(Always good to have correct info, that's why I like this board)
Tim
Originally posted by blue2kdave
I wonder if Moto spinning the chip division off is for some protection against an Apple suit? Is there any legal basis for the new company to be the one liable in a suit? It would bankrupt the new Moto Chip Co, but protect Motorola.
Maybe I read too much in to all of this..?
I'm not a legal expert by any means, but I would think that MOT would be open to a suit here only if there were some bona fide breach of contract with AAPL. Something like, a deal that MOT agrees to supply X number of chips, or a prototype of an acceptable next-gen chip, or something else rather concrete by a given date, which MOT failed to meet. Just being incompetent is not enough of a reason for being sued. Caveat emptor (to AAPL), and all that.
Otherwise, MOT could claim that they did their best, but the big, bad economic wolf huffed and puffed and blew their doors in. AAPL would be hard-pressed to prove deliberate bad faith, IMHO. Not that bad faith wasn't there, it would just be tough to make it stick in a court, as far as I can see.
I would love to see AAPL sue the pants off of MOT - I just don't see how they could do it, at the moment.
Just my own $0.02 worth.
Don't be too quick to count out the G4.
(Picture of IBM in the Blue Corner...weighing in with a bandwidth of 1 gig...in the Red Corner...the fly weight and dehydrating by the minute...Moto' Phona...)
BANG! (One punch, folks...and the reigning 'power'Mac champion is on the 'consumer' canvass...and...nawp...they don't look like they're getting up...nope...they aint breathing either...)
One-AHH, TWO-AHH, THREE-AHHH (etc...)
It can't summon the raw muscle of the G5
That's correct. It can't.
(except in AltiVec code,
EXCEPT in fairy land. Where the G4 competes very well with the G5. I don't see many mano-mano benches showing a single G4 anything doing much against a single G5. And that's the basis of comparison.
'where it can outrun the G5 clock for clock)'
There aren't many G4s running at 1.6-2 gig. So when the planets are in alignment, the G4 can outrun a low end G5...or beat a three year old Pentium on a few benches...
' but when you take power consumption into account'
The 0.09 will cream it. By Summer 2004. Dual 3 gig PowerMacs. G4? What? 1.25? 1.3 gig on some newer 'low power' version which sucks even harder at the same clock?
' it can hold its own'
The G4 has struggled to hold it's own. Particularly against budget Durons or Celerons.
'quite well.'
...out of date, antiquated, feeble.
'It's a good chip for the Xserve, '
It's such a great chip that X-Serve sales bombed after the G5 launch. I don't see it lasting much longer in the X-serves. I don't see Apple selling many G4 X-Serves in the interim unless STEEP discounts are applied.
'and the PowerBook, and possibly even the iBook down the road
The G4 is out on it's ass. (Pictures of writhing death throws all through early to mid 2004...)
Lemon Bon Bon
Originally posted by TJM
I'm not a legal expert by any means, but I would think that MOT would be open to a suit here only if there were some bona fide breach of contract with AAPL. Something like, a deal that MOT agrees to supply X number of chips, or a prototype of an acceptable next-gen chip, or something else rather concrete by a given date, which MOT failed to meet. Just being incompetent is not enough of a reason for being sued. Caveat emptor (to AAPL), and all that.
Otherwise, MOT could claim that they did their best, but the big, bad economic wolf huffed and puffed and blew their doors in. AAPL would be hard-pressed to prove deliberate bad faith, IMHO. Not that bad faith wasn't there, it would just be tough to make it stick in a court, as far as I can see.
I would love to see AAPL sue the pants off of MOT - I just don't see how they could do it, at the moment.
Just my own $0.02 worth.
Being open to a lawsuit and being served with one are two different things. At the company that I work, we could probably have grounds to sue most of the companies that contract us for work on 50-75% of the jobs that we work on for breach of contract. If we did though, we would never get their business again. I would imagine that Apple views Moto the same way, no lawsuits because they may have to fall back on Moto chips, modems or other components again. Also if I remember correctly, there have been provisions built into those contracts that have allowed IBM to pick up slack for Moto in the production of G4 chips for Apple. Personally I would prefer that Apple does not sue Moto, just move to better chips. As OS X matures this will allow Apple more flexibility to maneuver the tricky future of CPU development, and encourage their suppliers to work harder to keep Apples business.
Originally posted by @homenow
Being open to a lawsuit and being served with one are two different things. At the company that I work, we could probably have grounds to sue most of the companies that contract us for work on 50-75% of the jobs that we work on for breach of contract. If we did though, we would never get their business again. I would imagine that Apple views Moto the same way, no lawsuits because they may have to fall back on Moto chips, modems or other components again. Also if I remember correctly, there have been provisions built into those contracts that have allowed IBM to pick up slack for Moto in the production of G4 chips for Apple. Personally I would prefer that Apple does not sue Moto, just move to better chips. As OS X matures this will allow Apple more flexibility to maneuver the tricky future of CPU development, and encourage their suppliers to work harder to keep Apples business.
No points for spite?!?!
... geez, you're no fun
Originally posted by Bigc
I would think any suit would lead to the parent company when the problems developed. Hiding the perpetrator after the fact shouldn't help...
This would be an interesting situation legally.
I believe that spinning off the CPU division would offer zero protection against a successful lawsuit that focused on the time period that the CPU division was part of Motorolla.
Positives for spinning off (selling) the CPU division would mostly be financial. For example, Motorolla would theoretically receive a nice lump sum from the company buying the CPU division and Motorolla would almost certainly maintain an ownership stake.
If Motorolla's CPU division is currently losing money, it affects the company's financial statements. Removing the division would lower overall revenue, but would boost the reported profits if the above were true.
Be nice to hear the overall story of what happened over time though. That will probably come after Jobs retires, in his book titled "Stevie ....", (fill in the title)
Originally posted by Bigc
Then again, it's water under the bridge at this point. A lawsuit would be around for years and Apple, having a couple billion in the bank, hardly needs the money nor the suit headache. For Apple it's time to move on to the future, what's past is past. (/cliche)
Be nice to hear the overall story of what happened over time though. That will probably come after Jobs retires, in his book titled "Stevie ....", (fill in the title)
the title
"oh, and one more thing"
"oh, and one more thing"
Good call.
Lemon Bon Bon
On a different note, I wonder how this spin off will effect "Moto"'s chip development. Motorola is a HUGE corporation with a HUGE beurocratic mess and HUGE overhead. If the people in charge of the new company have any brains, they will totally divulge themselves of the beurocratic crap that Moto placed on them and streamline their development processes. This could actually be a good thing for chip development. If you think back to the development/introduction of the G4 it was a great chip for its time. I often wonder how much of the lack of development coming out of Motorola was the result of idiotic management decisions/processes. I work at a HUGE company that has accepted the management processes developed by Moto and believe me it is very difficult to get anything done because of all the beurocratic hoops that we have to jump through. I have a very hard time believeing that the lack of refinement was a result of stupid development engineers. If they are lucky, the new company will have about 12-18 months of kid glove treatement from Walstreet and the industry. During which time they should let their development guys run wild or face closing the doors.