All G4 mobile lineup or Powerbook G5?
OK, now we have the G4 iBook, the question of whether 750gx or G4 has been solved. Let's take a second of rememberance for the G3 - a truely astonishing CPU back in it's days.
But, this raises the question about where the Powerbooks are going to. A 25% CPU difference between the iBook and the 12" Powerbook is not so impressive (OK, other specs are better too).
Apple could have faith in Motorola that faster G4s are in the pipeline which allows them to differentiate the Powerbooks a bit more OR it could mean, Powerbook G5 are closer than previously expected.
Apple had an all-G3 lineup for quite some time with the "toilet seat" iBooks and the black-n-curvy Powerbooks, nevertheless I wouldn't trust Moto to deliver. Imho, this is a great sign pointing to Powerbook G5s in Jan/Feb.
But, this raises the question about where the Powerbooks are going to. A 25% CPU difference between the iBook and the 12" Powerbook is not so impressive (OK, other specs are better too).
Apple could have faith in Motorola that faster G4s are in the pipeline which allows them to differentiate the Powerbooks a bit more OR it could mean, Powerbook G5 are closer than previously expected.
Apple had an all-G3 lineup for quite some time with the "toilet seat" iBooks and the black-n-curvy Powerbooks, nevertheless I wouldn't trust Moto to deliver. Imho, this is a great sign pointing to Powerbook G5s in Jan/Feb.
Comments
Originally posted by Smircle
OK, now we have the G4 iBook, the question of whether 750gx or G4 has been solved. Let's take a second of rememberance for the G3 - a truely astonishing CPU back in it's days.
But, this raises the question about where the Powerbooks are going to. A 25% CPU difference between the iBook and the 12" Powerbook is not so impressive (OK, other specs are better too).
Apple could have faith in Motorola that faster G4s are in the pipeline which allows them to differentiate the Powerbooks a bit more OR it could mean, Powerbook G5 are closer than previously expected.
Apple had an all-G3 lineup for quite some time with the "toilet seat" iBooks and the black-n-curvy Powerbooks, nevertheless I wouldn't trust Moto to deliver. Imho, this is a great sign pointing to Powerbook G5s in Jan/Feb.
I agree. If there isn't that much of a performance (or perceived performance) difference, people aren't going to pay the extra for the Powerbook over the iBook. The iBook is a great value now.
I think today's launch of the G4 iBook really gives more credit to the thinking that a Powerbook G5 will be launched at MWSF.
Yeah!
8)
You can argue heat, power, space considerations all you want, but the one indisputable reason why the G5 will *NOT* be in a PowerBook in January is that I just received notice that my 15" G4 shipped this morning, and my Stevie loves me.
Originally posted by Kickaha
No. No it's bloody well not.
You can argue heat, power, space considerations all you want, but the one indisputable reason why the G5 will *NOT* be in a PowerBook in January is that I just received notice that my 15" G4 shipped this morning, and my Stevie loves me.
That's even more proof that the G5 will be in the Powerbook... Apple always updates right after people buy. Steve's a businessman.
Originally posted by Kickaha
You can argue heat, power, space considerations all you want, but the one indisputable reason why the G5 will *NOT* be in a PowerBook in January is that I just received notice that my 15" G4 shipped this morning, and my Stevie loves me.
Well, that settles it: G5 PowerBook in January.
I wonder how they'll do it. Though I agree its so obvious from a business standpoint for them to come out with a powerbook g5 in january or they will be shooting themselves in the foot.
Remember that the iBook had a G3 before the original G4s were even announced. The iBook and PowerBook lines both had the G3 for over a year and a half, and there were predictions of the Pismo being a PowerBook G4, just after the Power Mac G4s had been shipping for a few months.
Of course, we all know that the TiBook wasn't introduced until a year after the Pismo, which was almost 18 months after the G4s were introduced.
You can't over estimate with Apple. It almost *never* works out. People put out these 'dream specs' for a machine, and it's just not realistic or feasible.
The latest PowerBook G4s are just now readily available in the channel. Apple just caught up with orders in the last 2 weeks and retail stores finally have stock of most models. But people think that they are going to get a major update in less than 3 months?
I don't want to destroy people's 'dreams' here, but the probability that the PowerBook will even get *updated* at MWSF is ridiculously low as it is, never mind the line getting updated with G5s.
We probably won't see much hardware at MWSF at all. Instead, look for a look at the next major update of the Mac OS. Panther comes out in 2 days and the keynote will probably touch on sales of the OS, installed base, and then we'll get the typical, "Panther is old news, here is what's next".
I wonder how they'll do it. Though I agree its so obvious from a business standpoint for them to come out with a powerbook g5 in january or they will be shooting themselves in the foot.
Oh no, it's started already. Maybe I should shoot myself in the foot to get out of mod duty for the next 3 months, because I don't want to see what people are like after the MWSF keynote when the PowerBooks don't get the G5s.
I really don't get it. People on these forums have been begging for a G4 iBook for over a year. Arguments are made as to how the G3 is outdated and that an iBook G4 wouldn't compete with a PowerBook G4. Now Apple comes out with an iBook G4, and all of a sudden, a PowerBook G4 isn't good enough?
Seriously folks, a PowerBook G5 is *not* in the cards for MWSF. If you expect a PowerBook G5 in the next year, I'm afraid you're setting yourself up for a big let down. This is Apple we're talking about. Someone back me up here!
Originally posted by Fran441
I don't want to destroy people's 'dreams' here, but the probability that the PowerBook will even get *updated* at MWSF is ridiculously low as it is, never mind the line getting updated with G5s.
This is why I left it open as a question. Nevertheless, am I the only one who feels that the gap between the G4 iBooks and the slower Powerbooks is precariously narrow now?
I do believe this will eat into Powerbook sales, and I do believe Apple will have to react in the next 6 month.
The Powerbook G3 was announced at the same day (or two days later, I forgot) as the first G3 desktops and towers after all...
Originally posted by Fran441
If you expect a PowerBook G5 in the next year, I'm afraid you're setting yourself up for a big let down. This is Apple we're talking about. Someone back me up here!
I agree that a PB G5 is not on tap for MWSF, but perhaps by the end of 2004, there may be some news on that front.
The new model PowerBooks are shipping, and Apple hasn't even worked the kinks out of the 15" model yet, and they're going to turn around and totally overhaul it?
How many senior Apple execs have come forward and said that the 970 won't appear in a PowerBook anytime soon? They're not saying that to be coy. They're saying it because it's not gonna happen anytime soon. They want people to buy PowerBook G4s, because that's what's on the menu for the next 12 months or so.
The die shrink to 90nm will drop the price and the size and boost the clock speed, but unless IBM's boffins (I love that word) have come up with some really funky fab tech, current leakage issues will keep the power consumption from going down very much. This is not going to be a simple problem to solve.
As for the close gap between iBooks and PowerBooks, it was close for a long time before the PowerBook went G4. iBook sales took a serious hit last quarter, in part because the 12" PowerBook was cannibalizing sales. So now the iBook is better able to hold its own in the lineup.
The Powerbook G3 was announced at the same day (or two days later, I forgot) as the first G3 desktops and towers after all...
The difference was that clone manufacturers had G3s almost 6 months before Apple did (and were showing them off), and the G3 that they used required almost no special engineering to drop it into the PowerBook 3400.
There's a reason that the PowerBook 1400 line can take a much faster G3 upgrade without many issues where a Pismo or Lombard can't take even a slightly faster G4 (such as a 550 MHz G4 vs. a 500 MHz G3) without there being major issues to workaround, including the fan being on almost all of the time and the laptop getting almost unbearably hot.
You can't compare the G3, which was a much lower power chip, with the hotter, power hungry G4s and G5s. Look at what Apple had to do to allow for a G5 in a tower, and what they had to do to make a DP machine. You think they'll be able to drop a G5 into the current PowerBooks? It's just not going to happen.
Originally posted by Fran441
Guys, please be reasonable.
We probably won't see much hardware at MWSF at all. Instead, look for a look at the next major update of the Mac OS. Panther comes out in 2 days and the keynote will probably touch on sales of the OS, installed base, and then we'll get the typical, "Panther is old news, here is what's next".
I guess I don't understand the argument saying that the Powerbooks were just updated last month, they won't update them so quickly- but then you say that MWSF will focus on the next Mac OS release, when Panther hasn't even come out yet.
Why is it too soon to hope for a Powerbook upgrade, but not too soon to have a Mac OS upgrade?
Also I don't believe a comparison can be made between what happened before with Powerbooks going to the G4 and now with them going to the G5. Apple is smarter now (we hope) and working with a better supplier (IBM not Moto) who reportedly is already producing some .90 chips.
People are grumbling too much about the cost of these. Now when you look at the new lower priced eMac, the price of an iMac looks particularly stratospheric.
Think about it, there are rumors of a redesign in the works. This would be a perfect way to differentiate current G4 iMacs from the new G5 model.
But, just don't expect a G5 PB in January, it just isn't in the cards.
Why is it too soon to hope for a Powerbook upgrade, but not too soon to have a Mac OS upgrade?
It's actually very simple. Apple will announce a new OS years ahead of time if necessary, but they won't announce new hardware until it's at least somewhat reasonable to do so. You have to give developers plenty of time to get ready for a major OS upgrade.
As soon as 10.1 was out the door, Apple started pushing 10.2. As soon as 10.2 was out the door, Apple started pushing 10.3. What's the next show after 10.3 Panther is released? MWSF.
So yes, I think that it's very reasonable to think a new OS update will be talked about at MWSF based on what Apple has historically done. On that same note, Apple has not released a machine, only to update it 3-4 months later with Jobs at the helm with the exception of when they added the 12" and 17" PowerBooks to the line only 2 months after the 15" PowerBooks were updated. Still, that was a drastic change to the product line, and I'm confident that Apple won't be upgrading the PowerBooks again at MWSF.
Originally posted by Smircle
Imho, this is a great sign pointing to Powerbook G5s in Jan/Feb.
Sigh...
http://forums.macrumors.com/archive/topic/39023-1.html
Originally posted by PBG4 Dude
I'm thinking January will be all about the G5 iMac.
People are grumbling too much about the cost of these. Now when you look at the new lower priced eMac, the price of an iMac looks particularly stratospheric.
Think about it, there are rumors of a redesign in the works. This would be a perfect way to differentiate current G4 iMacs from the new G5 model.
But, just don't expect a G5 PB in January, it just isn't in the cards.
I agree...
eMac: G4
iMac: G5
PowerMac: Dual G5
I can see that lineup being nicely differentiated.
The iBook/PowerBook G4 is slightly less so, but the more I think about it, the more at peace I am with this.
iBook PowerBook
SVGA DVI
Combo Super as option
1024x768 Larger screens
FW800
Backlit keyboard, anyone?
Twice the L2 cache
640MB RAM 1.2GB RAM limit
It's a lot of little things, but they add up to a machine that's definitely more geared towards the pro. Of course, it's harder to see at first glance than the proposed e/i/Power lineup up top.
Originally posted by Kickaha
I agree...
eMac: G4
iMac: G5
PowerMac: Dual G5
I can see that lineup being nicely differentiated.
Getting off topic a bit here, but the iMac will take a pretty serious redesign to accomodate a G5, considering that it's always been a sort of desktop PowerBook.
The iBook/PowerBook G4 is slightly less so, but the more I think about it, the more at peace I am with this.
Code:
iBook PowerBook
SVGA DVI
Combo Super as option
1024x768 Larger screens
FW800
Backlit keyboard, anyone?
Twice the L2 cache
640MB RAM 1.2GB RAM limit
Don't forget the 25% and 33% faster CPUs available, and the 33% faster bus, and the monitor spanning (yeah, there's the hack, but how many iBook owners even know about that?).
dual g5
OR
dual g4 AND g4 ibook
now THERE is a good question. serious home computing, PLUS mobility, versus sick home computing but no mobility.