Okay, Apple: make up your mind about the Dock.
The dock's role used to be clear: it was used to switch between programs, launch apps, and let you shortcut to your favorite documents.
But in Panther, switching apps takes place in the "heads up" cmd-tab screen and the sidebar has killed the dock's role as a place to put your favorite files.
The dock's sole role is holding minimized windows.
What use is left for the dock? Will Apple kill it, or will it evolve?
But in Panther, switching apps takes place in the "heads up" cmd-tab screen and the sidebar has killed the dock's role as a place to put your favorite files.
The dock's sole role is holding minimized windows.
What use is left for the dock? Will Apple kill it, or will it evolve?
Comments
Originally posted by Placebo
The dock's role used to be clear: it was used to switch between programs, launch apps, and let you shortcut to your favorite documents.
But in Panther, switching apps takes place in the "heads up" cmd-tab screen and the sidebar has killed the dock's role as a place to put your favorite files.
The dock's sole role is holding minimized windows.
What use is left for the dock? Will Apple kill it, or will it evolve?
I have not purchased Panther yet and frankly have not informed myself that much about its new features. I will buy it eventually, though. Your post leads me to ask whether you can still choose to use the dock the old way, or have things switched around so much that that its actual functionality now is limited to holding minimized windows. If so, I am disappointed. I like my dock. Does this mean I should stick with 10.2?
Originally posted by Placebo
The dock's role used to be clear: it was used to switch between programs, launch apps, and let you shortcut to your favorite documents.
But in Panther, switching apps takes place in the "heads up" cmd-tab screen and the sidebar has killed the dock's role as a place to put your favorite files.
The dock's sole role is holding minimized windows.
What use is left for the dock? Will Apple kill it, or will it evolve?
Oh, evolve, for sure. Command-tab is still for more experienced users; the Dock remains one of the most visible and accessible elements to most users.
The Dock provides a lot more than holding minimized windows, too (actually I suspect that feature will be the first to change or even go, if any, as it's least good at that). It's a better app launcher than switcher, but it's a great launcher, and tells you what's running, and most importantly provides system-wide notification (Mail, iChat, application alerts).
I expect the next version of the Dock to enhance all of those qualities -- better, more organizable, launching abilities, to more information about each app that's running, and enhanced notification.
And who knows -- maybe something new.
Originally posted by Chinney
I have not purchased Panther yet and frankly have not informed myself that much about its new features. I will buy it eventually, though. Your post leads me to ask whether you can still choose to use the dock the old way, or have things switched around so much that that its actual functionality now is limited to holding minimized windows. If so, I am disappointed. I like my dock. Does this mean I should stick with 10.2?
Don't worry the dock works almost exactly the same in Panther as in Jag. Just add a 'hide' button to the application menus. I still have a copy of my Home and Documents folder in the dock for quick access. It takes too long to open a finder window, navigate to the appropriate folder and then double click on the file (but doing that is faster than in Jag).
instead of hop-scotching around apps in the Dock. A good thing.
Barto
1. Apple seems to be realizing that having one Dock do everything (switch apps, keyboard switch, launch, hold folders & files, trash, hold windows) isn't necessarily great. The minimized (ha ha) importance of minimizing and the elimination of keyboard switching in the dock help quite a bit.
2. However, the Dock is still useful:
1. To launch apps
2. To do mousey app switching
3. To access a certain window while switching apps (cmd tab can't, though Expose can)
4. To hold the Trash
5. To keep files and folders you always want accessible, whether or not a Finder window is open and on top. Besides, the Finder's "new" toolbar (introd. in 10.0, replacing Beta's toolbar) can do this.
6. To do such things as tell iTunes to play without bringing the window forward
7. As a notification area, so Mail can tell you about new messages, for instance.
8. To hold minimized windows.
So it's still quite useful
Originally posted by shetline
By the way... wasn't being able to close windows that have been minimized to the Dock supposed to be a new Panther feature? All I get when I right click on a Dock document now is a pop-up menu with the grayed-out title of the window -- same as before with Jaguar. I thought there'd now be a Close item in that pop-up menu.
AFAIK, that's been a feature of beta Mac OS X's since forever, but it's never made a final version.
Originally posted by shetline
By the way... wasn't being able to close windows that have been minimized to the Dock supposed to be a new Panther feature? All I get when I right click on a Dock document now is a pop-up menu with the grayed-out title of the window -- same as before with Jaguar. I thought there'd now be a Close item in that pop-up menu.
It's only there in Finder windows... no other apps.
Command-Q means Quit
Command-W means Close Window
Command-W should not mean Close Window AND Quit
Command-W should not mean Close Tab
No apps should quit when you close the last window. NONE. ZERO. If I want to quit an app, I will choose Command-Q. If I want to close a window, I will choose Command-W.
And here's how it's linked to the Dock. Mac OS apps have always had functionality outside of their windows. Just look at the menubar. In a way, that menubar is a window in itself. In an ideal world, if you close the last window, the menubar will still be there. If you close the last window, the Dock icon will still be there, functioning, providing Dock menu access.
Having apps quit when you close the last window is not the Mac way. It's the Microsoft way. It's the X-Windows way, but it's not the freakin' Apple way. Neither of those two operating systems have global menubars or Dock Menus, or any traces of an application's running status when yo close the last window, that's why they must have those apps quit when you close them.
Originally posted by Hobbes
The difference in Panther, Chinney, is that hitting command-tab to cycle apps brings up the following window of running apps (in load order),
instead of hop-scotching around apps in the Dock. A good thing.
Do people realise that you can get the same effect in Jaguar (I'm running 10.2.6) by pressing: Ctrl-Tab?
btw - as far as launching applications goes:
I personally like F10 Launch Studio, which is a neat little app launcher from Chronos - it was available from the .mac offerings at a discounted price... the offer has expired now, though.
Originally posted by Eugene
Command-W should not mean Close Tab
Yes it should. Tabs are just another way of managing windows, and having one shortcut to close a web site if it's in a window alone and another shortcut to close it if it's in a tab together with other tabs would be very confusing.
Originally posted by Eugene
Having apps quit when you close the last window is not the Mac way. It's the Microsoft way. It's the X-Windows way, but it's not the freakin' Apple way.
Hmm, funny since it's been here since at least System 6. Calculator?
Originally posted by Mac+
Do people realise that you can get the same effect in Jaguar (I'm running 10.2.6) by pressing: Ctrl-Tab?
You're probably running LiteSwitch.
Originally posted by JLL
Yes it should. Tabs are just another way of managing windows, and having one shortcut to close a web site if it's in a window alone and another shortcut to close it if it's in a tab together with other tabs would be very confusing.
Tabs are not windows. Tabs are anti-windows if anything. You cannot position them independently. They do not show-up in the Window menu. Tabs in Safari are not built into any APIs. As a result, tabs are implemented in many different ways with many different key-commands. They do not deserve to muddle the sanctity of Command-W. Imagine if other commands no longer did what they were supposed to do.
What if I do want to close a Safari window that has tabs in it? Why should that command not be Command-W? Why must it be a moving target? Die.
Hmm, funny since it's been here since at least System 6. Calculator?
I know how long its been an issue, but it's getting more and more prevalent now. It wasn't right then, and it isn't right now. I don't see how this is supposed to help your argument. It was wrong then and it's wrong now.
Imagine if every app behaved like this. Imagine if Mail quits when the last window is closed. Imagine if iChat quits when you close the Buddy List. Why the hell do we have Dock menus, Dock alerts, Menu Extras, and a global menubar then?
Doesn't this make any sense to you? Why the hell does the System Preferences even have its Dock menu items if you can only access them with the window open anyway?? Please answer.
Originally posted by Eugene
What if I do want to close a Safari window that has tabs in it? Why should that command not be Command-W? Why must it be a moving target? Die.
OK, you would prefer this situation:
User has a browser with three tabs open. He presses Cmd-whatever to close one of the pages he's reading. He does the same to the next, but somehow Cmd-whatever wonøt close the last page since he needs to close the window using Cmd-W instead.
Originally posted by Eugene
I know how long its been an issue, but it's getting more and more prevalent now. It wasn't right then, and it isn't right now. I don't see how this is supposed to help your argument. It was wrong then and it's wrong now.
Why? To what use us Calculator without it's only window open?
Originally posted by Eugene
Imagine if every app behaved like this. Imagine if Mail quits when the last window is closed. Imagine if iChat quits when you close the Buddy List. Why the hell do we have Dock menus, Dock alerts, Menu Extras, and a global menubar then?
Mail, iChat and others are apps with multiple windows. You don't need the mail viewer window to use mail.
Originally posted by Eugene
Why the hell does the System Preferences even have its Dock menu items if you can only access them with the window open anyway?? Please answer.
Because using the Dock menu you can access Date & Time even though System Preferences is showing the Network pane.
Originally posted by JLL
OK, you would prefer this situation:
User has a browser with three tabs open. He presses Cmd-whatever to close one of the pages he's reading. He does the same to the next, but somehow Cmd-whatever wonøt close the last page since he needs to close the window using Cmd-W instead.
Yes I would prefer it. He's going to have to learn that a tab is not a window and never will be. It brings us back to the MDI interface and the horrors it brings along with it.
Why? To what use us Calculator without it's only window open?
Imagine if it had a Dock menu to "update currency exchange rates" or "display recent conversions" or "display recent calculations." You need to start thinking about how flexible apps can be outside of their own windows. Either that or you're using Mac OS like...Windows, and not to its full potential.
Mail, iChat and others are apps with multiple windows. You don't need the mail viewer window to use mail.
What's a multiple-window app with one window open?... In fact, since I read more mail than I compose, I use Mail very much like a single-window app much of the time. Both the Dock menu options in Mail require you to bring up a window anyway.
Because using the Dock menu you can access Date & Time even though System Preferences is showing the Network pane.
Nope, that's not why the Dock menu is there. That *is* why the View menu is there though.
Nice try.
Originally posted by MacUsers
Hey... that is awesome... when you close the system preferences window it quits... i was always really annoyed that I had to quit it manually after i closed the window.
DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE!!!
- what's new dock ?
Toon's rabbit can be very annoying sometimes