Apple Apps losing WAN connectivity :???:

dave marsh

Back with Jaguar my Apple apps (Safari, Mail, iSync) would lose WAN (Internet) connectivity every few days. I thought Panther might fix this, but following an Archive and Install to Panther, the problem continued. After a couple of weeks of this, I chose to reinstall Panther cleanly (not over a version of Jaguar) to see if the issue would go away, so I backed everything up, reformatted, and reinstalled Panther.



However, the problem continues. Every day or two, my .Mac synchronization will fail, and Mail & Safari will lose Internet connectivity, even though Internet Explorer continues to access the Internet just fine. I've posted this issue before, but although many people read my post, few have replied.



Is anyone else experiencing this issue? Since a clean install didn't help, I've now disabled my .Mac automatic synching every hour to see if I can go though a couple of days without this happening again. I've also disabled it on a second Mac that was set to synch hourly, just it case it's a communications conflict of some kind that occurs when they both try to synch within a specified timeframe (Yes, I have gotten the error message in the past that .Mac was busy, but when this failure occurs, I don't get such a message).



I'd really appreciate hearing if anyone else is experiencing anything like this. I'm using a summer 2003 17" iMac with 768MB RAM. I've run Apple's hardware test on it, which it passes, so I really believe it's a software issue, but even with a pristine installation, the problem persists. I've pretty much run out of ideas, if turning off synching doesn't help. Anyone???

xool

This has happened with my machines too. Its happened with macs that are wired or wireless with fixed and dynamic IPs. Its very weird.



In Safari it lags on Connecting to Host. It never connects and the processing widget just spins. Other connected apps, like iChat and SSH sessions remain active. If I quit Safari and start it again the problem is usually resolved. Sometimes for minutes, sometimes for weeks.



Another issue I face is that sometimes our Airport Extreme base station drops off. This exhibits similar behavior as above, machines lose what appears to be DNS access. However, restarting an app doesn't solve the problem. Wireless rendezvous printing and connecting in through the Airport Admin Utility is useless. If I restart the base station all is well. However, everyones connections reset as they obtain new DHCP IP leases. This base station has the latest firmware but has exhibited this problem in one way or another with each firmware version I've used.



In another thread someone mentioned adding a default hostname to one's network settings. Mine was previously blank, but I've added a name-based entry. I'll report in if anything changes.

dave marsh

Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to be patient, again, for a couple of days to see if not synching with .Mac helps.

xool

Sorry to say, but I've encountered this problem on macs that sync and those that have no relation to .mac at all. Don't let me discourage you though... for all we know we're talking about different issues?!

fryke

Never seen such a problem. And I'm talking direct connection (via DHCP from ISP) as well as behind an AirPort BaseStation (graphite) as well as with a netgear router. So the problem, probably lies in your router setup or DHCP rules from the server...

dave marsh

Actually, my Macs are on a home LAN that's connected to a SpeedStream 5660 DSL Router that's serving DHCP addresses to the LAN. When one Mac's Safari/Mail/iSync burps, the other continues accessing the Internet just fine, even as Internet Explorer on the first Mac continues just fine.



This is definitely something that is shared among the Apple apps that access the Internet on an individual Mac. I've even added my ISP's DNS servers into the Network configuration on the Mac, although that shouldn't be necessary with DHCP. I've also tried renewing the DHCP IP address lease when this has happened, but that also hasn't helped. The only thing that seems to work is rebooting the Mac.

pensieve

I don't know if this is the same issue, but lookupd has been flaky in previous versions of OS X and that may be the case here, as well. Look here for a possible fix. HTH.

dave marsh

Well, another couple of days has gone by with automatic synchronization turned off, but that didn't help. I noticed this morning that Watson had failed to update during the night, and sure enough the Apple apps were no longer accessing the Internet either, although IE continued to access the web just fine, as usual. I switched over to my pristine Admin account, which was built cleanly during my rebuild of Panther and confirmed that the Apple apps were burping, but IE was fine. This time I tried pinging Apple.com in Terminal, and it resolved the IP address and returned normal ping times, as well. So, the problem MUST be something core to how the iApps access the web.



I think it's interesting that Watson was affected, but IE wasn't... another piece of the puzzle. So, another reboot and we'll try again. Next time, I think I'll see if Transmit will connect to my web host. \

gargoyle

ok, you have narrowed your problem right down with that sentance even if you did not realise it.



By pinging a hostname you have performed the following operations:-



1.) Does my machine know this address ? No, next step.

2.) Do I know any DNS servers ? Yes next step.

3.) Is the DNS server on my local net ? No next step.

4.) Is there a route to the dns server ? yes next step.

5.) ask dns server for ip of hostname. Got it, next step.

6.) Is ip of the machine on local net. No, next step.

7.) Is there a route to the machine. Yes, next step.

8.) send a few packets to the other machine. Got Repy ? Yes.



This just about covers all aspects of a TCP connection, and shows that your network level settings are fine. So I would concentrate on the application settings.



Try this in terminal:-

Code:

ftp ftp.cobalt.sun.com







If you get the prompt for a username and password, you can just hit enter until it drops the connection. (it will prolly ask 3 times.



If this works, then ftp works, which would suggest that the problem is specific to your browser / web settings. Check what values you have for proxy servers for any applications that do not work.



I can't imagine that your isp would have a proxy server that was in the blink, but its not totally beyond the realms of possibility. Until recently, the blueyonder webcache (proxy) servers where utter crap and I did not use them.



HTH

dfiler

I too have this problem but until recently thought my router was on the fritz. My solution is to power cycle the DSL modem. Sometimes this fails and an additional power cycle is neccessary.



I'll do a bit more research now that I know the problem is widespread. Stay tuned...

dave marsh

Well, it's Saturday afternoon, and my Apple apps have lost Internet connectivity again.



This time I tried using Terminal to ping apple.com again, which it did successfully, albeit with 87% packet loss (I noticed the same packet loss after a restart, however). I also tried the recommended ftp ftp.cobalt.sun.com connection in Terminal, but it failed, as did using Transmit trying to connect to my web host.



However, during all this, Internet Explorer continued to access the Internet as usual, and I was also able to access other servers on my home network (both Windows and Mac).



I'm also experiencing the Mirror Agent failing to quit when I want to restart, or even to logout (yes, I have a .Mac account and iDisk mounted on my Desktop, although automatic synching is turned off).



As usual, a simple restart gets everything working again, and I'd now expect this will happen again within the next 36 hours (I actually think it'll be closer to 24 hours, but I'm pretty conservative!).



It's hard for me to imagine more people aren't reporting this issue. I'm using a new 17" iMac with 768MB RAM, Panther was built cleanly on a reformatted volume, with Software Update taking it to 10.3.1, and automatic synching with iDisk and iSync (for Safari bookmarks, Addresses, Calendar events) are disabled (apparently to no advantage since the Mirror Agent keeps failing to quit anyway after a day). The Mac is on a home network connected through a 100Mb NetGear Switch to a SpeedStream 5660 DSL Router. Everything is up 24 hours a day.



It would seem to me a pretty simple configuration. So, I would expect users with a simple Panther installation connected directly to a 24x7 DSL connection to also be experiencing a network problem after a day or two. The key here is that the Mac's System is set to NEVER go to sleep (just the display and HD, when not needed), since I run SETI in the background. Users who turn off their Mac every night will probably not notice this issue.

dave marsh

OK, now another day and a half and it's happened again. So, I've gone back to manual TCP/IP, just to see if it's related to some DHCP voodoo with my System, but I'm not hopeful. I've entered a home network IP address, subnet mask (255.0.0.0), router IP address (for the DSL Router), and DNS server addresses for Earthlink. I've also turned off my local iDisk, just to hopefully take the Mirror Agent app out of the issue (it always fails to quit to permit a timely Restart after the connectivity issue rears its head).



What we know so far it that it's Apple apps (Safari, Mail, iSync) and FTP that seem to be affected. Internet Explorer continues to work, as does pinging with Terminal. Trying FTP with Terminal also fails.

dave marsh

Well, it's another day, and as I was sending an email this evening my Apple apps again lost Internet access, even though IE continued again just fine.



Anyone have any ideas? I've already rebuilt Panther from scratch following a reformatting of the hard disk.



I don't know what else to do at this point, short of another clean reinstall of Panther, although I'll try an Archive and Install to attempt to save my user info first.

mccrab

I have been experiencing the what appears to be the same problem for months and have tried similar "fixes", but to no avail. The only thing I have noticed is that the problem appeared to get worse after I upgraded from an Airport base station to the Airport Extreme base station.



Go figure?

dave marsh

Yeah, I think the issue is something built deep into the OS. I've changed my Energy Saver System/Computer setting to 3 hours vice never to see if that makes a difference. I've never noticed this problem with my iBook, which is running 10.2.8, but it goes to sleep to conserve battery power, which my desktop Macs never have.



That's about the only difference I can think of (oh yeah, it's also a G3), since I've had this same problem with my old G4 Tower running 10.2.8, as well, just less frequently (every week or so, vice nearly daily).



Anyway, I'll know tomorrow, since this issue rears its head every 24 - 36 hours now.

tommy_thompson

Hate to add to the pile, but here goes:



I too have had similar things. Just a sudden loss of Wireless, POOF. Well- I reset the router, or modem, or sometimes it has to be both, most times the connection will return. But what a pain in the @$$ to have to do that. I have not had problems after syning .Mac and losing connectivity up until last night. Right there, at that exact moment of time it happened. So I reset the router once. Went back on my merry way. I had to sync my .Mac again?SHAWZAM! It did it again, this I found strange, I repeated the test 4 times and it did the same thing every time. I am on 10.3.1 at the moment. I also had the connectivity problems on Jag as well. My IP is dynamic, not static. But if someone knows how to get the wireless up and keep it working, thanks in advance! Also, what is weird, is that I try to log into the network (home network, I set up myself password protect and all), and it won't let me log in. However I have the password and all that stuff in the system where it belongs, etc. However, everytime I start the computer-it just logs in and all is fine. Other than the random disconnects. And the voodoo of syncing my .Mac last night.



~tommy

dave marsh

My problem seems to be with something in the MacOS itself. I've never had to reset my DSL modem to reconnect, just reboot the iMac. Something's amiss in the bowels of MacOS X. My question is whether the voodoo is applying only to me, or to others as well.



In fact, my other Macs on the home network continue to access the Internet just fine when this outage with the Apple apps on my iMac burp. Internet Explorer on this iMac continues to work just fine as well. Since a simple reboot of the iMac resolves the issue for awhile (at least a day), I'm guessing, if this is a MacOS X issue and not something amiss with my Mac, that many people are not aware of the issue because they shutdown or put their Macs to sleep each night.

tommy_thompson

Dave, an off topic question..did you ever live in southern california? Your name is very familiar....

dave k.

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Marsh

Back with Jaguar my Apple apps (Safari, Mail, iSync) would lose WAN (Internet) connectivity every few days. I thought Panther might fix this, but following an Archive and Install to Panther, the problem continued. After a couple of weeks of this, I chose to reinstall Panther cleanly (not over a version of Jaguar) to see if the issue would go away, so I backed everything up, reformatted, and reinstalled Panther.



However, the problem continues. Every day or two, my .Mac synchronization will fail, and Mail & Safari will lose Internet connectivity, even though Internet Explorer continues to access the Internet just fine. I've posted this issue before, but although many people read my post, few have replied.



Is anyone else experiencing this issue? Since a clean install didn't help, I've now disabled my .Mac automatic synching every hour to see if I can go though a couple of days without this happening again. I've also disabled it on a second Mac that was set to synch hourly, just it case it's a communications conflict of some kind that occurs when they both try to synch within a specified timeframe (Yes, I have gotten the error message in the past that .Mac was busy, but when this failure occurs, I don't get such a message).



I'd really appreciate hearing if anyone else is experiencing anything like this. I'm using a summer 2003 17" iMac with 768MB RAM. I've run Apple's hardware test on it, which it passes, so I really believe it's a software issue, but even with a pristine installation, the problem persists. I've pretty much run out of ideas, if turning off synching doesn't help. Anyone???

Hello,



I have similiar problems with 10.2 and 10.3 for some time. I previously posted under this thread:



http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...threadid=28902



My only fix is still to cycle the power on my router.



I don't know if this is a Mac problem, Router, or ISP problem.



Thanks



Dave

dave marsh

I lived in LA when I attended USC in the mid-80's for my graduate degree.



Back on topic, I've changed my Energy Saver from Never sleep for my System/Computer to 3 hours. Interestingly enough, it's now been two full days since the problem last occurred. Tomorrow should tell the tale.

dave marsh

Well, it's now approaching three days since I switched my Energy Saver setting from having the computer NEVER sleep, to go to sleep after three hours, and my Apple apps are remaining connected.



I'm guessing that something happens when you wake from sleep that wakes up the Apple app's connectivity. Of course, that still suggests a bug in the OS that allows the Apple apps to disconnect after 24 - 36 hours in Panther in the first place, but at this point I'm more interested in a usable solution. I'm wondering how this issue hasn't reared its head in server configurations that cannot be allowed to go to sleep? If the Apple apps burp again, I try putting the computer to Sleep and reawakening it to see if that reconnects successfully.



I've decided to turn my iSync automatic sync back on to hourly. If that continues to work OK, I'll remount my iDisk later this weekend. \