Bush sells out Taiwan
It seems that Bush wants freedom for the people of Iraq, but not for the people of Taiwan?
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...home-headlines
WASHINGTON ? President Bush said today after meeting with Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao that he opposes the apparent interest of Taiwan's leaders in taking steps toward independence.
Meeting with reporters in the Oval Office after a 40-minute meeting with Wen, Bush said he had told the premier, "The United States policy is one China."
"We oppose any unilateral decision by either China or Taiwan to change the status quo," Bush said, "and the comments and actions made by the leader of Taiwan indicate that he may be willing to make decisions unilaterally, to change the status quo, which we oppose."
It was the administration's strongest statement to date in opposition to Taiwan's plan to conduct a referendum on March 20 on whether the Taiwanese people want to demand that China withdraw hundreds of missiles aimed at Taiwan and renounce the use of force against the island.
The administration sees this as an indirect step toward independence, a view shared by Chinese authorities who have threatened military action against the island if the referendum proceeds as planned. But Wen, refraining from belligerent comments, said China's goal is to pursue peaceful reunification with Taiwan, "as long as a glimmer of hope" exists.
"Stability can only be maintained through unswerving opposition to pro-independence activities," Wen said. He said his country sought to maintain a system of "one country, two systems."
"We will do our utmost to bring about national reunification through peaceful means," Wen said.
"The Chinese government respects the desire of people in Taiwan for democracy, but we must point out that the (Taiwanese leaders) are only using democracy as an excuse and attempt to resort to defensive referendums to split Taiwan away from China," he said. "Such separatist activities are what the Chinese side can absolutely not accept."
On the issue of stability on the Korean peninsula, the United States hopes to be able to negotiate an end to North Korea's nuclear weapons program, with assistance from China.
At present, China is attempting to reconvene six-party talks aimed at resolving the impasse.
Bush expressed appreciation to China for starting the process this past summer.
"The goal is to dismantle a nuclear weapons program in a verifiable and irreversible way, and that is a clear message that we are sending to the North Koreans," Bush said. "We will continue to work with China and the other countries involved to solve this issue peacefully."
The other countries, aside from China and the United States, are the two Koreas, Japan and Russia.
In response to a question on trade disputes, Wen said China has been taking steps to reduce the massive U.S. trade deficit, adding that he planned to submit a proposal on this issue during his luncheon meeting with Bush and other officials. He gave no hint on what was in the proposal.
U.S.-China trade has come a long way since 25 years ago, Wen said. The combined total was a mere $2.5 billion a year, compared with the current figure of more than $100 billion, he said.
"We have to admit, though, in our economic and trade relationship, problems still exist, and mainly the U.S. trade deficit with China," Wen said -- prompting a "thank you" from Bush.
"The Chinese government takes this problem seriously, and has taken measures to improve the situation," Wen said.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...home-headlines
WASHINGTON ? President Bush said today after meeting with Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao that he opposes the apparent interest of Taiwan's leaders in taking steps toward independence.
Meeting with reporters in the Oval Office after a 40-minute meeting with Wen, Bush said he had told the premier, "The United States policy is one China."
"We oppose any unilateral decision by either China or Taiwan to change the status quo," Bush said, "and the comments and actions made by the leader of Taiwan indicate that he may be willing to make decisions unilaterally, to change the status quo, which we oppose."
It was the administration's strongest statement to date in opposition to Taiwan's plan to conduct a referendum on March 20 on whether the Taiwanese people want to demand that China withdraw hundreds of missiles aimed at Taiwan and renounce the use of force against the island.
The administration sees this as an indirect step toward independence, a view shared by Chinese authorities who have threatened military action against the island if the referendum proceeds as planned. But Wen, refraining from belligerent comments, said China's goal is to pursue peaceful reunification with Taiwan, "as long as a glimmer of hope" exists.
"Stability can only be maintained through unswerving opposition to pro-independence activities," Wen said. He said his country sought to maintain a system of "one country, two systems."
"We will do our utmost to bring about national reunification through peaceful means," Wen said.
"The Chinese government respects the desire of people in Taiwan for democracy, but we must point out that the (Taiwanese leaders) are only using democracy as an excuse and attempt to resort to defensive referendums to split Taiwan away from China," he said. "Such separatist activities are what the Chinese side can absolutely not accept."
On the issue of stability on the Korean peninsula, the United States hopes to be able to negotiate an end to North Korea's nuclear weapons program, with assistance from China.
At present, China is attempting to reconvene six-party talks aimed at resolving the impasse.
Bush expressed appreciation to China for starting the process this past summer.
"The goal is to dismantle a nuclear weapons program in a verifiable and irreversible way, and that is a clear message that we are sending to the North Koreans," Bush said. "We will continue to work with China and the other countries involved to solve this issue peacefully."
The other countries, aside from China and the United States, are the two Koreas, Japan and Russia.
In response to a question on trade disputes, Wen said China has been taking steps to reduce the massive U.S. trade deficit, adding that he planned to submit a proposal on this issue during his luncheon meeting with Bush and other officials. He gave no hint on what was in the proposal.
U.S.-China trade has come a long way since 25 years ago, Wen said. The combined total was a mere $2.5 billion a year, compared with the current figure of more than $100 billion, he said.
"We have to admit, though, in our economic and trade relationship, problems still exist, and mainly the U.S. trade deficit with China," Wen said -- prompting a "thank you" from Bush.
"The Chinese government takes this problem seriously, and has taken measures to improve the situation," Wen said.
Comments
Originally posted by the cool gut
It seems that Bush wants freedom for the people of Iraq, but not for the people of Taiwan?
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...home-headlines
This is how foreign policy works. We blow the big guy, no matter how brutal and oppressive he is. China is one of our largest trading partners and it doesnt matter if they are communist (nominally)...if a few, elite, wellplaced folk are getting rich from oppression, then thats good enough for us.
Taiwan = Democracy....(but that don't count for anything in the real world...because they are SMALL))
China = Communist, authoritarian...but they are BIG...so we court them.
Bush (and Clinton etc etc) side with China.
Surprising?
No. Ethics and principle always lose out to $$$$$
https://applestore.bridge-point.com/...yno=8002786926
Before yesterday I might have cared...
Originally posted by X X
Bush is actually right in this. I took a class about doing business with China and Taiwan at my company and to my surprise, the majority of Taiwanese (at least many of them) don't want independence. They like the way they have things now, kinda like Puerto Rico and the U.S. Many Taiwanese believe China will become a great power in the world in terms of Politics, Economics, Military, etc. like the U.S. and they want to be part of that when it happens. It's just not that way now, but is slowly moving towards that. When everything is hunky-dory with all that, Taiwan will be more than happy to become part of China.
Not everyone in the colonies was for the revolution....many were happy with the situation at the time and respected their mother country.
Originally posted by applenut
Not everyone in the colonies was for the revolution....many were happy with the situation at the time and respected their mother country.
If china was a democracy the reunification will not be a big deal ...
even when I lived there in 88-89... only 2 years after the lifting of Martial Law,
a time when all of the politicians were the same guys who were elected in 1948 and refused to give up their 'mainland constituency seats' until they took back the mainland from the "bandits" who held it.
<strange to see a bunch of 80 year old mainland Chinese who hadn't faced election in 40 years complain about 80 year old Communists who wouldn't face elections. When Taiwan finally elected a locally born leader, there was a lot of hostility from both sides>
The first year the nominally pro-independence DPP beat the old KMT, China conducted massive missile exercises off the coast and actively threatened to invade.
US Fleet intervention in the straits was required to cool things off.
At that point Taiwan's only political friends were Apartheid-era S. Africa and some banana republics,
and PRChina would have a hissy fit over the "Chinese-Taipei" Olympic flag.
Any country who was tempted to officially recognize Taiwan was threatened with loss of relations. Most beancounters were hypnotized with the promise of selling "one shoe to a billion people" and caved.
Taiwan held the third largest foreign exchange reserves in the world...
(some say robbing the Bank of China in 1949 helped)
Taiwan was/is in the Top Ten economic stats in terms of GDP, trade, etc.
If it weren't for the standing Chinese threat to invade on these conditions...
1. Declaration of Independence (including election of pro-independence parties)
2. Nuclear Proliferation (want the bomb, we'll drop one on you)
3. "Aggressive" actions (as if a country of 30 million would attack 1 Billion)
4. can't recall... late
Taiwan would have been officially independent by now.
But the official US "One China Policy" dates to Nixon.
Seriously though, I'd like to take a class to learn the political landscape of Taiwan. No doubt there are many of us who could benefit from such a class, to better understand the sides that have been drawn in Taiwan, mainland China and around the world.
Originally posted by the cool gut
It seems that Bush wants freedom for the people of Iraq, but not for the people of Taiwan?
That sounds cute, but it's painfully naive. You can usually avoid embarrassment by actually thinking about what you want to say before you post (not 'you' personally, but I hope 'you' get the idea).
Neil Bush, GW's brother, is in businessness with Jiang Mianheng, son of Jiang Zemin. Not only that, but Taiwanese President Chen Shui-bian just a month ago paid $1m to meet with Neil in NY. Note that the US has no official diplomatic ties to Taiwan, making such a summit rare.
Then we have this from the nelson report:
9. Finally for today, from last night's Report, we incorrectly stated that NSC Asia director Jim Moriarity spent all his time in Taipei before returning to Washington?sources say he also was sent to Beijing to personally explain the President's intentions in writing, privately, to Taiwan President Chen Shuibian.
-- we don't know if Moriarity carried a "second letter" from Bush to President Hu?Loyal Readers who may have such knowledge are reminded that e-mail works both ways.
10. But feedback today confirms that while the State Department certainly supports the intention of the NSC in trying to reign-in Chen's efforts to push the envelope in redefining Taiwan's position vis a vis China?that State, including Secretary Powell, is very, very unhappy with how the NSC handled the Moriarity visit.
-- no one wants to admit this?but it turns out that Powell felt constrained to send Bush a letter reminding him of the acceptable ways to discuss what the U.S. "opposes", and why any changes in the mantra can themselves be de-stabilizing.
11. Sources familiar with the Bush/Hu letter confirm our Report last night, that it did use the "approved" or "time tested" language that the U.S. "opposes" unilateral moves by either China or Taiwan which might upset the peaceful status quo.
-- but evidence of the tactical blood bath over Moriarity's visit comes with word that National Security Advisor Condi Rice had to personally order Moriarity to read the draft Bush/Hu letter to Deputy Secretary of State Randy Schriver.
12. And even at this late date, the Bush/Hu letter having been delivered in Taipei, and, apparently, discussed in Beijing, State has not been given an actual text of what Moriarity put together for the President's signature.
-- does any of this really matter? After all, the bottom line is that both State and the NSC are on the same page when it comes to concern over the risks posed now, and in the future, by Chen Shuibian.
13. Our guess is that it does matter, in that the fight isn't merely tactical, but is fundamentally conceptual. Our guess is that Moriarity's effort reflects a Bush White House which continues to view all foreign policy through the prism of counter-terrorism (and, in Asia, this includes dealing with N. Korea).
-- recall that Bush's personal anger with Chen goes back to at least August, 2002, as we reported at the time, when even pro-Taiwan officials were furious with Chen for "upsetting larger U.S. interests" vis a vis China.
14. Despite Bush's letter, this issue is not going away, and is likely to get a good deal more "difficult", not the least because the growing support for Taiwan on Capitol Hill is fundamentally based on support for democracy writ large?and a basic innocence of historical appreciation of the reasons for the Cross-Straits dialogue.
-- as one DOD wag put it today, "What happens when Wolfowitz decides that if we support democracy for Iraq, we can hardly turn our back on Taiwan?" How Capitol Hill might play with that is anyone's guess.
In other words, there's a lot more to this than we know right now.
In other words, there's a lot more to this than we know right now.
i thought 95% of all this info was public domain?
Originally posted by alcimedes
i thought 95% of all this info was public domain?
Actually, it is, and what I posted above is proof. For more detailed info on actual content of the conversations, you just have to know where to look and who to ask.
That guy is out of the country as of a few days ago.
Edit: you know, I just realized that I'm going to have to convince this 65yo+ man to use a blog. It would make life so much easier for a lot of people.
Originally posted by the cool gut
[B]It seems that Bush wants freedom for the people of Iraq, but not for the people of Taiwan?
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...home-headlines
Bush wants freedom for the people of Iraq? Of course he does, but for PR reasons only, allowing his administration to appear compassionate to those people who have not the time, open-mindedness, or inclination to study the facts, after the stated reason for the Iraq war, weapons of mass destruction, turned out to be a stack of lies.
If theTaiwan-China situation suddenly turns ugly, we will all find out which side BushCorp will stand for in such an emergency. Totalitarianism or Democracy?
And...will the US get militarily involved should hostilities break out, or should it remain an "internal matter for the Chinese government"? If we took sides, either way, what may be the longterm risk? One effect might be to generate a new breed of Chinese or Taiwanese terrorists who may strike at U.S. interests in the Far east (and perhaps also on the U.S. mainland also). It seldom helps our cause when foreign policy decisions are taken with a little more foresight than the ends of the decision-makers noses, or for short term contractual benefits to parties close to administration officials...as is de rigeur with the Bush mob.
China can not take over Taiwan thrrough military force.
Taiwan can not declare independence.
So the only option is for a peaceful reunification instigated by Taiwan.
Until that time, the status quo is maintained.
Now, this isn't that bad. One reason is that the status quo will be maintained for at least the next 50-100 years. All the young Taiwanese I know don't want to unify with an opressive China, and they would be hesitant to unify with an open China (Taiwanese hate the mainland for the destruction of "Chinese" culture by Mao during the cultural revolution). So until China becomes a stable and open democracy, Taiwan will stay away from political reunification.
So in about 50-100 years when the mainland is still ruled by a single party and it is clear to all (except those like BJer who see the world through rose colored glasses) that the mainland isn't democratic, and Taiwan has had a real democracy for 50-100 years, then probably the world will admit that Taiwan is seperate from the mainland.
GWB is making it very clear that the only solution lies in Taiwan and China peacefully reuniting. Barring a change in how the world views Taiwan and China, then things aren't going to change this position. He isn't selling Taiwan short (telling Taiwan to reunify and ditch democracy would be selling them short) and his position is the position that the US has had since Nixon, the difference is that his administration is not ambuigious about it.
As an aside, while we will say to Taiwan to not pursue independence, it is noteworthy to point out that most all of China's neighbors don't like them and that it is pretty easy for the US to get these neighbors to be on our "side". For example, Vietnam is actually pretty close to the US because they quite genuinely fear China (funny how fighting some wars with China will do that). Hence the US missile frigate that recently came into port in Ho Chi Minh city. Vietnam, India, Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan are all rather uncomfortable with a China being a military power.
It is no surprise that Vietnam might be anti-Taiwan purely for purposes of leverage over the Oil issue.
When I arrived in Taiwan in 1988, there was no "official" relationship, no direct flights permitted (had to stop in HK), and no mainland investment.
By the mid-90s, direct flights were common, and almost 70% of the factories in Fukien province on the mainland were funded by Taiwanese investors.
Many in Taiwan have shifted focus from expectations that the Communist Party would fail, and now presume that economic reunification will lead to the Capitalist society on Taiwan owning and therefore controlling the PRC.
Mainlanders are happy for the investment, but the Communist Party continues to wave the big stick and posture. Most Taiwanese I still keep in touch with are content to maintain the status quo (de facto independence, at least on an economic basis) and wait for the winds to shift.
Originally posted by curiousuburb
Many in Taiwan have shifted focus from expectations that the Communist Party would fail, and now presume that economic reunification will lead to the Capitalist society on Taiwan owning and therefore controlling the PRC.
Mainlanders are happy for the investment, but the Communist Party continues to wave the big stick and posture. Most Taiwanese I still keep in touch with are content to maintain the status quo (de facto independence, at least on an economic basis) and wait for the winds to shift.
Yeah, that is essentially how the Taiwanese I know feel. "Wait them out until they come around to us". I don't know how realistic an expectation it is for the PRC to let the Taiwanese run the whole show. Hopefully, PRC will continue to liberalize and one day do something as drastic as (gasp) have a second political party and religious freedom. This would make the reunification of PRC and Taiwan like the reunification of East and West Germany. That'd be nice. More likely, we will get a war (sorry, I tend to be a pessimist so that I can be surprised when things turn out better). I might get to go to PRC this summer which would be cool. Nothing like sewing religious dissent.
Meanwhile, my understanding, from speaking to Taiwanese is that many of them very much view themselves as distinct from the mainland, that this distinction is historical - starting long before the split after the KMT set up shop in Taiwan in 1949 and the PRC was proclaimed on the mainland - and that this view of distinctiveness is gaining currency even among the descendants of KMT. Despite this strong feeling ? given the equally strong or stronger feeling on the mainland ? I believe that the best that the Taiwanese can do ? probably for at least one lifetime, and perhaps longer ? is continue to accept the One China view (a view which even they ?officially? still hold, as a remnant of KMT thinking - they just view themselves as being the legitimate government of this One China), but continue to act, for all practical purposes, as a independent country. The Taiwanese have gained much under the current arrangement and I think that the alternative for them, given current views in China, is much worse.