InDesign or XPress for Beginner
Let me preface this all by saying I have no formal graphics training. I got Studio MX 2004 for Christmas to teach myself web design, but everything that I've learned (which hasn't been all that much yet!) has been through playing around. Anyhow, at one of my jobs (ah, the joys of being a grad student...who likes to suround himself with pricy Apple products 
) I've now been given the responsibility of working on a brochure. I might also be doing some work on a few posters as well.
So far I've been working with Fireworks and Freehand, since that's what I have, but my boss seems to be open to getting a page layout programme to smooth things along. So my question is this: as someone with no graphic design or page layout training, would InDesign or XPress be the easier package to learn by playing around (coupled with whatever on-line training I can find)?
Any comments/input/help/attempts to disuade me from this course of action would be appreciated.
) I've now been given the responsibility of working on a brochure. I might also be doing some work on a few posters as well. So far I've been working with Fireworks and Freehand, since that's what I have, but my boss seems to be open to getting a page layout programme to smooth things along. So my question is this: as someone with no graphic design or page layout training, would InDesign or XPress be the easier package to learn by playing around (coupled with whatever on-line training I can find)?
Any comments/input/help/attempts to disuade me from this course of action would be appreciated.
Comments
The Adobe Creative Suite Pro package includes a disc with some training videos.
Have a look at some of the online tutorials for each program.
Some sites offer sample videos (some inane) to give you a sense of features.
As stated above, it's less expensive (but more kick-ass...go figure), handles type beautifully AND plays really nice, naturally, with Illustrator and Photoshop.
For what it's worth, the new Macworld (the 20th anniversary issue) praises it up and down the road, saying it's pretty much going to topple QuarkXPress. And already has, in many quarters.
I wouldn't walk across the road to pee on a copy of QuarkXPress.
And Leonis nailed it...why get one has-been app when you can get the latest versions of Adobe's big-time apps for pretty much the same price? I think Adobe's commitment to the Mac (and OS X) is a little more on-the-ball than Quark's.
If you're starting clean and have no issues with having to be locked into Quark because of a co-worker's input or fears, or outside printing concerns/relationships, then it's the easiest decision in the world.
its easier to learn than quark. people who are quark experts sometimes have trouble making the switch to begin with, but it doesn't take long to work out the differences.
but you have no quark hang-ups so not a problem
nothing more to say here!
My copy of Adobe Creative Suite is en route and I am switching to InDesign and GoLive for web.
After spending two hours on the phone with a tech support from India to get the defective copyright protection scheme in Xpress 6.0 to work, two weeks later, it's broken, disabling my ability to produce campaign materials. Since I have the governor of this state attending a campaign function tomorrow evening, needless to say, I am not amused. Quark better pray I'm not elected to the state legislature, as I plan to introduce legislation on consumer fraud and violation of consumers "fair use" with these elaborate and unworkable protection schemes about 10 milliseconds after being sworn in.
Foolishly, I let familiarity with an interface guide me away from what was common sense: too many years of Xpress and CopyDesk as first a newspaper reporter and editor, and ultimately, a magazine editor kept me clinging to the familar Quark interface, not largely changed since version 2.12 when I started using it.
Every other app I use has changed radically (or gone away) and I just learned to cope with change...and I know the same will be true for InDesign and GoLive.
Frankly, Quark can't go out of business soon enough for me. I have to admit, after 13 years of customer abuse I feel a visceral anger toward that company, well beyond my dislike and frustration at Microsoft.
<end of rant>
www.mikemcgann.org
InDesign in my opinion beats the crap out of Quark in so many ways. If you know Photoshop and Illustrator it won't take you too long to learn InDesign. There is also better support for those apps in InDesign (you would hope so since they are made by the smae company).
The way things are now, it is best to know both. especially if you want to find work and make money. If you are just in it as a hobby and for fun, InDesign is cheaper and a lot more user friendly.
If you do serious Design, you cannot get away from Quark. But if cost is a big issue for you, get InDesign... If you plan to get serious, get Quark, if you are only experimenting, InDesign.
I would disagree that you must use Quark to do "serious" design. True, Quark will not readily dissapear, and we designers will have to continue to work with it. But let me outline a few pros to InDesign and cons to Quark Xpress.
Quark has no intention of integrating the "cute" (to use their wording) features into Xpress that InDesign already has, including but not limited to drop shadows, advanced transparency, advanced typographical options, integration with Photoshop, native blending modes, MUCH better export to PDF and a better user interface.
For those of you Quark users (and more importantly, Quark engineers) who dont need these "useless" features... Good for you! I suppose you dont "need" running water or a flush toilet either...
Adobe also has a MUCH better student pricing that Quark has. (shame on Quark).
Educational pricing for Xpress must be new because last time I checked, Quark didnt have an educational discount. I suppose they are getting better now.
Price Rundown
Quark Xpress Retail - $1,045 ($945 w/ instant rebate)
Quark Xpress Educational - $415
InDesign Retail - $549
InDesign Educational - $199
Adobe Creative Suite Premium (Includes Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, GoLive, and Acrobat)
Retail - $1229
Educational - $399
At any rate, if you are planning on doing any "serious" design, I can assure you that you will need Photoshop. Even the great and mighty engineers at Quark dont claim to get by without it. It can even help you in your web design. So if I were you, I would go for the educational version of the Creative Suite. You wont regret it!
Oh, and by the way. Adobe's "Classroom in a Book" series is not a bad way for a beginner to learn the applications (occasionally they can be a little lacking in some areas). I believe you can buy them used on Amazon cheaper than you can get online training.
While I'll have to get used to doing things a new way, the old Quark ways were kind of odd and complicated (thanks to that 1989 interface), while things seem much more intuitive with InDesign.
Obviously, Web design is vastly better in GoLive, but it will take a few weeks to learn it properly.
Although I have a lot to learn and will be hunting for an InDesign and GoLive book or two, this new CS suite is amazing.
Goodbye Quark. And if I need to use a printer who can't handle native InDesign files, well, that's what PDF is for, right?
<edit fixed a typo>
One copy of QuarkXPress costs the same as the ENTIRE Adobe Creative Suite (which includes Illustartor, Photoshop)
And that pretty much says it all. 8)
Originally posted by OldCodger73
Going a bit off topic here, how difficult is InDesign to learn if you've been a long time PageMaker user?
InDesign is much easier to use if you are familiar with Pagemaker - lots of similar keycommands (although there is an alternative command layout available for Quark folks to use).
I've used InDesign since version 1.0 and I've been impressed with every improvement. It has excellent type handling (love the hanging punctuation capabilities) and you can work is very large document sizes. I do large exhibition graphics is can work in real space in InDesign - it's wonderful to work on 8' X 13' banners in real space!! It can also create outlines from text on the fly and export the resulting graphics to .eps format to use in Illustrator. I also like seeing my tifs and other images in full resolution.
The only problems I've had are in color control issues and I'm still working on that. Some of my vendors don't care for InDesign but none of them refuse it.
I haven't switched to the new CS yet but I anticipate that I will love that version, too.
Originally posted by cwgirl
I haven't switched to the new CS yet but I anticipate that I will love that version, too.
I have no doubt you will like the CS version (I still like to call it version 3).
What QuarkXPress has going for it right now is ubiquity. It's been the standard for so long, that you're bound to encounter it sooner or later if you work in print.
I'm quite happy since they were going to go for the Windows version (so they can keep using it when I'm gone), but a quick call to Adobe (which, in spite having a guy who mumbled a bit much, making him a bit difficult to understand, impressed me with its no holding-time customer service) confirmed my suspision that they will let you switch a Mac license for Windows one for just the cost of shipping. So, happily, I'll be able to work off my G5 at home.
i hate quark these days, but at least they have been able to save back one version prior with all their latest releases. so keep in mind, if you learn indesign cs, you better have someone else ready to take those files, or else you're building a ship in a bottle. i hope macworld's comments were right that adobe "is working on a fix for this issue."