Enron, Parmalat, the toll
Corporate scandal, greed and corruption are nothing new but I want to open this thread to get your ideas.
Ideas as to why we fall in the traps as mere humans.
Ideas as to what qualities in a society can lead us in a better direction.
I would also like to ask you if you find some things about society to be cold and isolating thus lending to cold situations like these noted in this thread.
How can we as members of a global society enforce ethics but even deeper how can we ensure a better life?
Parmalat aide 'commits suicide'
Thank you for your ideas,
Fellows
Ideas as to why we fall in the traps as mere humans.
Ideas as to what qualities in a society can lead us in a better direction.
I would also like to ask you if you find some things about society to be cold and isolating thus lending to cold situations like these noted in this thread.
How can we as members of a global society enforce ethics but even deeper how can we ensure a better life?
Parmalat aide 'commits suicide'
Thank you for your ideas,
Fellows
Comments
I really just think the American system of government is broken beyond repair and desperately needs a fresh start. To use the terms of the day, we need to hit the reset button. It will never happen though.
I just want to live on the Moon or on Mars and never have to deal with these governments again.
Originally posted by BR
I would say we need government intervention to stop some of these outrageous forms of corporate greed, including that of the healthcare industry
Indeed. It seems corporations and profits are robbing us of a larger picture. The social condition we face and live within needs new ideas and leadership.
Fellows
To solve the problem you and BR are worried about is fairly simple. Coorporations simply shouldn't have the rights of an individual citizen. The Constitution certainly wasn't written with that exception in mind.
Originally posted by Fellowship
Indeed. It seems corporations and profits are robbing us of a larger picture. The social condition we face and live within needs new ideas and leadership.
Fellows
Heh. Don't misquote me man. I hate the partial quotes. I have no problem with corporations and profits. I just think there needs to be a shift in the focus from the stakeholder above all else to providing the service you promised to the customers WHILE helping out the stakeholder as well. It is possible for those two to concepts to coexist. It won't maximize stakeholder and shareholder profit but it will provide a good chunk while keeping your customers happy.
By the way, in California the big health insurance companies like blue cross and blue shield all registered with the department of corporations and are now considered investment corporations and are no longer under the jurisdiction and review of California's insurance commissioner. This is where the government has once again dropped the ball and allowed these companies to pull this kind of crap. The loopholes in the laws must be closed. The laws must be simplified. Taxes need to be reduced significantly so that companies can make a profit WITHOUT lying and cheating.
Originally posted by bunge
Not to be crude, but I don't necessarily believe this was a suicide. Not that you can trust them anywhere, but you can't trust Italian politics at all.
Actually that thought crossed my mind when I composed the Thread. If what you mention is a factor it adds even more thrust to my questions in this realm.
From what I see money and greed dictates many many things and we lose quite a bit in the process.
Fellows
Originally posted by BR
Heh. Don't misquote me man. I hate the partial quotes. I have no problem with corporations and profits. I just think there needs to be a shift in the focus from the stakeholder above all else to providing the service you promised to the customers WHILE helping out the stakeholder as well. It is possible for those two to concepts to coexist. It won't maximize stakeholder and shareholder profit but it will provide a good chunk while keeping your customers happy.
By the way, in California the big health insurance companies like blue cross and blue shield all registered with the department of corporations and are now considered investment corporations and are no longer under the jurisdiction and review of California's insurance commissioner. This is where the government has once again dropped the ball and allowed these companies to pull this kind of crap. The loopholes in the laws must be closed. The laws must be simplified. Taxes need to be reduced significantly so that companies can make a profit WITHOUT lying and cheating.
You bring to the table excellent examples! We the people can not wink at this. This issue of the ball being dropped is tragic. Thanks for your ideas BR such as when you say:
"Taxes need to be reduced significantly so that companies can make a profit WITHOUT lying and cheating."
I find this to be a very good point!
Fellows
Originally posted by Fellowship
Actually that thought crossed my mind when I composed the Thread. If what you mention is a factor it adds even more thrust to my questions in this realm.
From what I see money and greed dictates many many things and we lose quite a bit in the process.
Fellows
The problem is our government facilitates the lying and cheating through overtaxation and overregulation and it is the citizens, those who our government is supposed to protect, who pay in the end.
Originally posted by BR
The problem is our government facilitates the lying and cheating through overtaxation and overregulation and it is the citizens, those who our government is supposed to protect, who pay in the end.
I think you have nailed something many do not pick up on as partisan politics tend to blind the issues.
This is why I remain a "supply side" believer.
Fellows
Originally posted by BR
Taxes need to be reduced significantly so that companies can make a profit WITHOUT lying and cheating.
Sounds like throwing the baby out with the bathwater so to speak. Plus, what makes you think that greedy corporations won't lie and cheat to make even more profit even at that significantly reduced tax rate? I think it's pretty clear that greedy corporations will always exist to suck our individual and collective bones dry. More regulation, more taxes, and throw an ultra-violet stadium light on that goddamn invisible hand, allright?
Originally posted by Fellowship
You bring to the table excellent examples! We the people can not wink at this. This issue of the ball being dropped is tragic. Thanks for your ideas BR such as when you say:
"Taxes need to be reduced significantly so that companies can make a profit WITHOUT lying and cheating."
I find this to be a very good point!
Fellows
Starting with social security. That fvcking sham. It needs to be ended today. All those that paid in will get that back and it will be financed through further debt. The bleeding needs to be stopped now. Every day social security continues to exist it gets deeper and deeper in the hole. As a replacement, there needs to be a voluntary opt-in gov't sponsored retirement program and the funds can NEVER be raided.
Another problem I find to be a major tie-in to this issue is simply:
Corporate influence affecting policy in government in less than ethical ways which sets the stage we all live in. This is a big problem. How can we get our government to be more resistant to heed to the wishes of business.
Example: Drug companies
Fellows
Originally posted by Fellowship
I just live life as if I will never see a dime of Social Security. In effect I do what I need to do aside from the government.
Another problem I find to be a major tie-in to this issue is simply:
Corporate influence affecting policy in government in less than ethical ways which sets the stage we all live in. This is a big problem. How can we get our government to be more resistant to heed to the wishes of business.
Example: Drug companies
Fellows
So why are the self employed paying 15% in social security taxes and everyone else paying 7.5% if we are NEVER going to see a dime of it?
Shawn, don't start up about we are paying for our parents. The system was NOT set up that way. It was set up to be OUR retirment program, not those of the generation before us. Government irresponsibility caused us to get into the mess we are in now.
Originally posted by BR
So why are the self employed paying 15% in social security taxes and everyone else paying 7.5% if we are NEVER going to see a dime of it?
Trust me I share your outrage at the mismanagement of these funds. Not for me personally per say but especially for those who depend on social security in a most urgent sense.
It is a crime. It does need to be addressed. I find as you do that it is a sham and more.
Fellows
Originally posted by BR
So why are the self employed paying 15% in social security taxes and everyone else paying 7.5% if we are NEVER going to see a dime of it?
Self employed pay 'double' because they are both the employer and the employee. So they're paying the 7.5% everyone else pays, and their employer (themself) is paying the matching 7.5%.
Originally posted by BR
Shawn, don't start up about we are paying for our parents. The system was NOT set up that way. It was set up to be OUR retirment program, not those of the generation before us. Government irresponsibility caused us to get into the mess we are in now.
I think if you actually read a little history you'll find that you're incorrect.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/question385.htm
The Social Security system is nothing like that. In the Social Security system, the money you pay into the system gets immediately paid back out to the people who are currently getting Social Security checks. This arrangement came into being because of the way the system started. In 1935, when Roosevelt signed the Social Security Act into law, there were a lot of people who needed benefits (because of the Great Depression), but there was no money to pay those benefits with. The idea at the time was that people currently working would pay into the system, and their money would immediately go back out in the form of benefit checks. Each generation of retiring workers would get paid by the people currently working, and therefore the system would fund itself forever despite the fact that the system had no money to start with.
Originally posted by bunge
[B]Self employed pay 'double' because they are both the employer and the employee. So they're paying the 7.5% everyone else pays, and their employer (themself) is paying the matching 7.5%.
Duh.
Quote:
I think if you actually read a little history you'll find that you're incorrect.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/question385.htm
I stand corrected. I now vehemently disagree with the entire system on principle. Nonetheless, government irresponsibility still played a role in getting SS into the situation it is now. Government cannot be trusted to perform this function any longer.
It is not my job to pay for the mismanagement of retirment funds by the previous generation, much of which was squandered away by government mismanagement of the system itself. By the way, it was the dumbass government that caused the great depression. They let the key banks fail. They screwed up. A few bailouts of the major banks would have saved this country a LOT of grief.
Heh. Don't misquote me man. I hate the partial quotes. I have no problem with corporations and profits. I just think there needs to be a shift in the focus from the stakeholder above all else to providing the service you promised to the customers WHILE helping out the stakeholder as well. It is possible for those two to concepts to coexist. It won't maximize stakeholder and shareholder profit but it will provide a good chunk while keeping your customers happy.
By the way, in California the big health insurance companies like blue cross and blue shield all registered with the department of corporations and are now considered investment corporations and are no longer under the jurisdiction and review of California's insurance commissioner. This is where the government has once again dropped the ball and allowed these companies to pull this kind of crap. The loopholes in the laws must be closed. The laws must be simplified. Taxes need to be reduced significantly so that companies can make a profit WITHOUT lying and cheating.
Only 5 or 6 years ago insurance premiums seemed very affordable with fantastic coverage to match. Well you could also check www.oneshopinsurance.com i got to see (i.e. Geico, Progressive) insurance companies current rates, quite funny to see though, if you're an individual or family who pays for insurance today chances are you're literally getting punched in the pocket book, and it hurts.
I would say we need government intervention to stop some of these outrageous forms of corporate greed, including that of the healthcare industry which is ravaging the bottom line of businesses around the country and the benefits of their employees.
I've come to the realization that government/corporations are more or less the same thing. Siamese twins. One holds the other's hand. Corporations contribute to political campaigns and the politicians return with deregulations and tax breaks. We need to remove the greed from both groups.
When you all have time, watch The Corporation. It delves into this mess very well. What we can do is buy products and services that are considered safe, reliable and trustworthy. And vote for politicians the same way. Boycott or vote out the rest.
I stand corrected. I now vehemently disagree with the entire system on principle. Nonetheless, government irresponsibility still played a role in getting SS into the situation it is now. Government cannot be trusted to perform this function any longer.
Regardless of how the finances were to work, it was not intended as the sole source of retirement income that it has become for so many people. It was only meant to be a supplement to help retirees and other qualified recipients fill in the gaps.