Hajj 'great success' ? Saudi minister
Hajj 'great success' ? Saudi minister
Al-Jazeerah
MECCA (AFP) ? The Hajj season was a "great success," Saudi Interior Minister Prince Nayef Ben Abdul Aziz said Wednesday, adding that the 251 people trampled to death
Apparently, it is still very difficult for some to distinguish between civility and barbarism. If a "pilgrim" slips and falls, he has less of a chance of being helped to his feet than of being trampled to death.
Al-Jazeerah
MECCA (AFP) ? The Hajj season was a "great success," Saudi Interior Minister Prince Nayef Ben Abdul Aziz said Wednesday, adding that the 251 people trampled to death
Apparently, it is still very difficult for some to distinguish between civility and barbarism. If a "pilgrim" slips and falls, he has less of a chance of being helped to his feet than of being trampled to death.
Comments
Originally posted by Blue Shift
Hajj 'great success' ? Saudi minister
Al-Jazeerah
MECCA (AFP) ? The Hajj season was a "great success," Saudi Interior Minister Prince Nayef Ben Abdul Aziz said Wednesday, adding that the 251 people trampled to death
Apparently, it is still very difficult for some to distinguish between civility and barbarism. If a "pilgrim" slips and falls, he has less of a chance of being helped to his feet than of being trampled to death.
this is the kind of trollery I expect from you . . . intolerant, incomprehending, and worthy of being locked and kicked
Originally posted by pfflam
this is the kind of trollery I expect from you . . . intolerant, incomprehending, and worthy of being locked and kicked
So I suppose trampling 250 plus people to death is the civilized thing to do?
Anyway, it seems now this kind of reaction is an almost automatic thing with you. I can't say I'm much surprised. But it is interesting to observe this evolution.
the Haj itself, however has millions and millions of people converging on a small geographical location for over a week . . . considering that that is the only real accompanying tragedy it is not so terrible
after all, I remember a Who concert where many were trampled to death . . . or what about recent concerts of the same sort of thing, here in the great USofA?
What I object to is you obvious attempt to belittle the whole culture for this tragic occurance and this phrasing in general:
it is still very difficult for some to distinguish between civility and barbarism. If a "pilgrim" slips and falls, he has less of a chance of being helped to his feet than of being trampled to death
Originally posted by pfflam
250 people died in a massed throng of pushing people . .. regrettable and not very civilized
after all, I remember a Who concert where many were trampled to death . . .
Maybe it says something about some of the Who fans?
Originally posted by pfflam
250
What I object to is you obvious attempt to belittle the whole culture for this tragic occurance and this phrasing in general:
See above.
Same applies to the original post. i.e., Muhammadian fans.
Originally posted by Blue Shift
[ . . .] Muhammadian [ . . . ]
need I say more
Originally posted by pfflam
need I say more
Plz do!!!
Originally posted by Blue Shift
If a "pilgrim" slips and falls, he has less of a chance of being helped to his feet than of being trampled to death.
This is a lie. You state it as fact, when in fact it's simply a lie. That's not very nice of you.
Originally posted by bunge
This is a lie. You state it as fact, when in fact it's simply a lie. That's not very nice of you.
I haven't seen either of you present evidence supporting either side. Since neither of you are more credible than the other, I'd like to see some evidence before believing anything.
The 260 trampling of pilgrims is worthy of a topic. Want to how it precipitated, how it could be prevented or what can done about it? The idea that this is a sign of Muslim barbarism is highly dubious and I'd say explicitly trolling.
Y'all have one shot.
anyway. this has nothing to do with a religion per se, but more to the point that mob control has yet to reach the stage at which it should be. this is going to sound crude but how many people were trampled to death on their way out of the world trade center? people dont respond to massive moving crowds very well. it probably is wiser to trample someone than try to pick them up and be trampled yourself. conditions that support this environment should be prevented but that does not mean sacrificing a soccer match or the hajj.
Originally posted by billybobsky
i want to fire the cannonball. wait, how do i fire this thing?
anyway. this has nothing to do with a religion per se, but more to the point that mob control has yet to reach the stage at which it should be. this is going to sound crude but how many people were trampled to death on their way out of the world trade center? people dont respond to massive moving crowds very well. it probably is wiser to trample someone than try to pick them up and be trampled yourself. conditions that support this environment should be prevented but that does not mean sacrificing a soccer match or the hajj.
How many millions of people were in the WTC? What's that? .05 million? Hmm. How many millions were at Hajj? Around 2-3 million? It was a tragedy but to say that it's uncivilized is ridiculous.
I've never been to Hajj or Mecca, but I hear that the experience is unique in that you've got many different nationalities/races represented and they all are there for the same thing. It must be a sight to see.
Small mindedness is what started this thread. I hope we can pull this one from the gutter.
edit: I should also say that crowd control would be a difficult task considering the shear number of languages that are represented at a pilgrimmage. Also, many pilgrims are not literate in their own language much less others. The task is daunting.
Originally posted by BR
I haven't seen either of you present evidence supporting either side. Since neither of you are more credible than the other, I'd like to see some evidence before believing anything.
This is the best you can do?
If you bothered to read the article Blue Shift linked you'd see that no one 'slipped' as he stated. Feel free to come back after you're read the article we're discussing.
How many millions made it? How many died? How many would normally die during that time period? I'll bet that the few that did die in an unfortunate and unnatural accident were fewer than would die out of a sample that size during a given week.
Originally posted by torifile
Also, many pilgrims are not literate in their own language much less others. The task is daunting.
Well when Chinese muslims make the trek, I'm not really surprised that they don't speak Arabic.
Tragedy is not new at the site of the pillars. Fourteen pilgrims were killed doing the same thing last year, 35 in 2001, more than 118 in 1998 and 340 in 1997.
Thought I would add the end of the article to the discussion.
It's a sign of a damn sick culture. Just like letting school girls burn to death rather than go out without the funking veils. Allahu Akbar.
Not that other cultures aren't sick. In the US we have our McDonalds and WalMart and televangelists and flag waving etc. But that doesn't excuse the really sick shite like this.
Sorry if I offended anyone. God forbid that we actually be critical of anyone else.
[edit: chubakka didn't see your post before I submitted mine.]