Freedom, Fundamentalism and the FCC

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
I believe in Jesus Christ and his teachings, which makes me a Christian by all definitions. I'm somewhat bothered by the use of the word "gay marriage", but not by the idea of civil unions. I tend to vote conservatively and I believe that an abandonment of social parameters leads to generations growing up without moral compasses.



BUT.





I'm bothered by the stealthy noose of censorship that is softly closing around the neck of our nation. The notion behind the ongoing FCC crackdown isn't entirely misguided, but the execution of that crackdown certainly seems draconian....how much farther might it go?



I'm personally trying to walk the "straight and narrow", but why would I would I want to bend someone else's arm behind their back to make them walk that path with me?



It seems that reasoned middle-grounds shall remain few and far between; both parties' ideologies can't allow them to mark out a reasonable middle ground.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 35
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,016member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by drewprops

    I believe in Jesus Christ and his teachings, which makes me a Christian by all definitions. I'm somewhat bothered by the use of the word "gay marriage", but not by the idea of civil unions. I tend to vote conservatively and I believe that an abandonment of social parameters leads to generations growing up without moral compasses.



    BUT.





    I'm bothered by the stealthy noose of censorship that is softly closing around the neck of our nation. The notion behind the ongoing FCC crackdown isn't entirely misguided, but the execution of that crackdown certainly seems draconian....how much farther might it go?



    I'm personally trying to walk the "straight and narrow", but why would I would I want to bend someone else's arm behind their back to make them walk that path with me?



    It seems that reasoned middle-grounds shall remain few and far between; both parties' ideologies can't allow them to mark out a reasonable middle ground.




    Honestly, I think this latest FCC controversy is quite ridiculous. From my understanding, the broadcast rules have not actually changed since 2001. Am I wrong? The house voted to increase fines, not change the rules. The FCC has been <gasp> actually enforcing the current rules. Should someone be allowed to say the F-bomb on the public airwaves a 9 a.m.? Should he be able to talk about the most explicit sexual material?



    There is a widespread myth that "freedom of speech" means one can say anything he likes at anytime is common one, but a myth nonetheless. There have always been limits on free speech within reason. The entire concept of freedom of speech was predicated on free political speech, so that we were free to criticize our own government. We must have some basic standard of what's accepable on the public airwaves as it relates to profanity and explicit sexual material.
  • Reply 2 of 35
    ganondorfganondorf Posts: 573member
    You're missing the point. The FCC can pretty much fine anybody at any time for any present or past "slip". So the theory goes, fine anybody that you want off the air, for political reasons. And all the radio broadcasters live in fear of political dissent, for fear of losing their jobs.



    The FCC must go.



    Hell, I would gladly let my kids hear the F-bomb day and night if they were listening to talk radio of their own volition. Granted, I don't have kids yet, so I don't really have room to speak. But you can take my word for it.
  • Reply 3 of 35
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,016member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Ganondorf

    You're missing the point. The FCC can pretty much fine anybody at any time for any present or past "slip". So the theory goes, fine anybody that you want off the air, for political reasons. And all the radio broadcasters live in fear of political dissent, for fear of losing their jobs.



    The FCC must go.



    Hell, I would gladly let my kids hear the F-bomb day and night if they were listening to talk radio of their own volition. Granted, I don't have kids yet, so I don't really have room to speak. But you can take my word for it.




    We're not really talking about talk radio. I agree the guidleines need to clarified, specified and equally enforced. You can't just say "down with the FCC" and call it a solution.
  • Reply 4 of 35
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by SDW2001

    We must have some basic standard of what's accepable on the public airwaves as it relates to profanity and explicit sexual material.



    Unfortunately with the FCC that's becoming the most strict definition. If 95% of the population uses the words shit, ****, asshole and dickhead everyday and talks about sex around the water cooler at work, then the airwaves should be fair game even if that minority might be offended.
  • Reply 5 of 35
    bartobarto Posts: 2,246member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by SDW2001

    There is a widespread myth that "freedom of speech" means one can say anything he likes at anytime is common one, but a myth nonetheless.



    *cough* *choke* *splutter*
  • Reply 6 of 35
    ast3r3xast3r3x Posts: 5,012member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by SDW2001



    There is a widespread myth that "freedom of speech" means one can say anything he likes at anytime is common one, but a myth nonetheless. There have always been limits on free speech within reason. The entire concept of freedom of speech was predicated on free political speech, so that we were free to criticize our own government. We must have some basic standard of what's accepable on the public airwaves as it relates to profanity and explicit sexual material.




    Off topic, but just a little joke about misunderstandings from our forefathers...



    The Founding Fathers were sitting around a table in 1776, working on the

    Constitution. It had been a long day when Thomas Jefferson said, 'Whew!

    It's getting rather warm in here, isn't it?' Ben Franklin replied,

    'Shall I open the window?' 'No, that's alright. I'll just take off my

    jacket, and roll up my sleeves.' 'Hey, that's a good idea. Why don't we

    include that in the Constitution?' 'What? That we're allowed to take our

    jackets off and roll up our sleeves while we work?' 'Yeah, but that

    doesn't sound very smooth. How about 'Everyone shall have the right to

    bare arms?'
  • Reply 7 of 35
    splinemodelsplinemodel Posts: 7,311member
    What really kills me is the fact that you can't show a boob on TV but you can show some pretty serious graphic violence. Now, I think all censorship should be on the end of the user, and since we're going to have to get digital TVs by 2006 this is not out of the question.



    You can toss a pretty rich content summary header in with the digital video stream. Give the opportunity for some vendors to make use of these feeds and bam: it's a feature every overprotective, puritan, middle class mom wants on the TV her kids will be watching.



    Then it's the FCC's job to see if networks are lying about their content summaries. . . which is easy, so they can fire off 90% of the bureau and save me money.



    Like that's going to happen.
  • Reply 8 of 35
    outsideroutsider Posts: 6,008member
    What we need is a smartTV. It has a camera with age recognition software so when a child is in the room, it blurs out boobs and bleeps out swears.
  • Reply 9 of 35
    Quote:

    Originally posted by SDW2001

    You can't just say "down with the FCC" and call it a solution.



    I certainly can.
  • Reply 10 of 35
    gilschgilsch Posts: 1,995member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by SDW2001

    Should someone be allowed to say the F-bomb on the public airwaves a 9 a.m.? Should he be able to talk about the most explicit sexual material?



    I have personally NEVER heard anyone say FVCK on the radio. Not un-bleeped anyways. Don't most stations have a 6 second delay to deal with that to begin with? The "f-bomb"? wtf, are you 10 or something?



    [QUOTE]There is a widespread myth that "freedom of speech" means one can say anything he likes at anytime is common one, but a myth nonetheless. There have always been limits on free speech within reason. The entire concept of freedom of speech was predicated on free political speech, so that we were free to criticize our own government.[/QUOTED]It's ironic that you're saying this, but yet when someone criticizes the Bush admin. you take up arms over it.
    Quote:

    We must have some basic standard of what's accepable on the public airwaves as it relates to profanity and explicit sexual material.



    Again, I have never heard a bad word on the radio that was not bleeped. If even that is a problem for some people, maybe they shouldn't be listening to that particular show to begin with. Is it a problem when Howard Stern talks about tits, but not when Dr. Laura does? Why do people listen to H Stern? Because you like his brand of entertainment.
  • Reply 11 of 35
    gilschgilsch Posts: 1,995member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Outsider

    What we need is a smartTV. It has a camera with age recognition software so when a child is in the room, it blurs out boobs and bleeps out swears.



    Or flashes a message at the bottom of the screen that says "EARMUFFS!!!"
  • Reply 12 of 35
    kraig911kraig911 Posts: 912member
    sure they can limit certain usages of a particular word that most people hate... and they are going to crack down that I suppose sure... but then whats next? In media, broadcast execs/planners/promoters have to fight for every inch they get with the FCC. Though I am happy with what they did for clearchannel. I just wish they never allowed a single station to own 2 class "A" stations as well as a major TV station and a paper... clearchannel is the devil. and viacom is its Bitch. I'm glad the FCC doesn't control the internet .
  • Reply 13 of 35
    moogsmoogs Posts: 4,296member
    The FCC could make so many friends, and show so much promise if only they would:



    1. Ban Infomercials

    2. Ban Reality shows on national television

    3. Make sure Janet is "wardrobe-tested" before all her concerts





  • Reply 14 of 35
    bartobarto Posts: 2,246member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Gilsch

    I have personally NEVER heard anyone say FVCK on the radio. Not un-bleeped anyways. Don't most stations have a 6 second delay to deal with that to begin with? The "f-bomb"? wtf, are you 10 or something?



    Again, I have never heard a bad word on the radio that was not bleeped. If even that is a problem for some people, maybe they shouldn't be listening to that particular show to begin with. Is it a problem when Howard Stern talks about tits, but not when Dr. Laura does? Why do people listen to H Stern? Because you like his brand of entertainment.




    And I thought our Australian Broadcasting Authority were over the top. Triple J is like "**** this", "**** that". Or it least it was, I stopped listening to them after Alex Lloyd.



    Don't 90% of songs have **** in them? What do the radio stations do with that??? I wonder how your FCC would react if a radio station played TISM's "I might be a c*** but I'm not a ****ing c***"



    Barto
  • Reply 15 of 35
    haraldharald Posts: 2,152member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Gilsch

    I have personally NEVER heard anyone say FVCK on the radio. Not un-bleeped anyways. Don't most stations have a 6 second delay to deal with that to begin with? The "f-bomb"? wtf, are you 10 or something?



    Again, I have never heard a bad word on the radio that was not bleeped. If even that is a problem for some people, maybe they shouldn't be listening to that particular show to begin with. Is it a problem when Howard Stern talks about tits, but not when Dr. Laura does? Why do people listen to H Stern? Because you like his brand of entertainment.




    You poor bastard.



    Where I live you hear it all the time on national radio. At time of writing, our children are no less depraved then yours.
  • Reply 16 of 35
    influenzainfluenza Posts: 146member
    Censorship is hardly universal. Individual broadcasters make their own decisions about what to censor based on how they think it will be received by their target audience and by their critics. Basically, if they think they can get away with it, they go for it, and from what I can tell, the FCC only seems to step in when enough people complain.



    On educational and documentary programs I have heard uncensored profanity, including the much maligned f-word, and seen everything up to and including actual depictions of sexual acts. On the radio, different types of music are censored differently. In addition to the usual four-letter words, "black" music (I guess they're calling it "urban" these days) usually has all references to guns, drugs, and derogitory terms for women bleeped out. This does not happen with rock or pop music. If you watch professional wrestling much lately, you know that one person on a microphone saying f*** or s*** doesn't fly, but 20,000 fans screaming it in a stadium is okay. The classic rock station I listen to doesn't bother censoring some songs at all anymore. It's as if, when a song gets old enough, the profanity becomes public domain.



    I don't think there's any kind of strict double standard. It's just that broadcasters define their own standards based on context and current politics. At the very best, the FCC exists to step in and appease angry people when a broadcaster guesses wrong or something gets taken the wrong way. "Hey look, see, your government is fighting to maintain morality!" It's pretty lame and arbitrary. I think we, as a society, would benefit a whole lot more by dealing with violence, sex, and language realistically and maturely. If the believable use of these elements became commonplace in broadcast media, who knows, we might see an end to the shameless, two-bit titillation and pandering that permeates network programming right now. We might see more of the kind of brilliant artistic freedom that only channels like HBO make possible now.
  • Reply 17 of 35
    drewpropsdrewprops Posts: 2,321member
    I think that those who advocate the model that Splinemodel mentioned are on the right track. Giving The People a way to control their content for themselves is the best option of all.
  • Reply 18 of 35
    What's interesting is that the broadcast networks have been asking for more leniency to compete with cable networks regarding language and nudity.



    Seems the USA rather uptight about words and the human body, unlike the rest of the industrial world, when it comes to such things being broadcast. Is it really thought by the FCC that a broadcasting of a Sopranos-style of television show will be the downfall of the nation?
  • Reply 19 of 35
    shetlineshetline Posts: 4,695member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by SDW2001

    There is a widespread myth that "freedom of speech" means one can say anything he likes at anytime is common one, but a myth nonetheless. There have always been limits on free speech within reason. The entire concept of freedom of speech was predicated on free political speech, so that we were free to criticize our own government.



    So, what's your definition of "reasonable"? Freedom of political expression may well be the most important part of free speech, but in and of itself it's far too narrow a definition of what speech and other expression should be protected.



    Why not outlaw bad grammar, or telling the same boring story at dinner a second time? If mere "offensiveness" is the measure of "reasonable" restrictions, I can guarantee you the there are many people more offended by listening to, like, someone, like, saying "like", like every, like, other, like, word, than they, like, are like offended like by bare, like boobs, like, you know?

    Quote:

    We must have some basic standard of what's accepable on the public airwaves as it relates to profanity and explicit sexual material.



    Since the airwaves are a limited public commodity, I don't have too big a problem with limited censorship of public broadcasts. Broadcast bandwidth, while it can be more efficiently used by new technology, it can't actually be expanded, it can't freely be doled out for just anyone's use. It's not unreasonable, therefore, for public opinion and majority public standards to play a role in who gets to use, and keep using, portions of the broadcast spectrum.



    But even where the majority has a right to impose standards, where majority rule trumps individual freedom of expression, it's in the best spirit of a free society if the majority truly values freedom of expression, and treads lightly when applying any sort of limitations.
  • Reply 20 of 35
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,016member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by shetline

    So, what's your definition of "reasonable"? Freedom of political expression may well be the most important part of free speech, but in and of itself it's far too narrow a definition of what speech and other expression should be protected.



    Why not outlaw bad grammar, or telling the same boring story at dinner a second time? If mere "offensiveness" is the measure of "reasonable" restrictions, I can guarantee you the there are many people more offended by listening to, like, someone, like, saying "like", like every, like, other, like, word, than they, like, are like offended like by bare, like boobs, like, you know?



    Since the airwaves are a limited public commodity, I don't have too big a problem with limited censorship of public broadcasts. Broadcast bandwidth, while it can be more efficiently used by new technology, it can't actually be expanded, it can't freely be doled out for just anyone's use. It's not unreasonable, therefore, for public opinion and majority public standards to play a role in who gets to use, and keep using, portions of the broadcast spectrum.



    But even where the majority has a right to impose standards, where majority rule trumps individual freedom of expression, it's in the best spirit of a free society if the majority truly values freedom of expression, and treads lightly when applying any sort of limitations.




    Oh here we go. "Don't impose your values on me, SDW". Please.



    Reasonable: Fvck, Shit, A**hole, C**K, C**T, etc. Explicit descriptions of sex on the air. This is unreasonable? No *reasonable* person would say so.
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