How much sun is too much?

ast3r3x

With summer spring upon us, and summer approaching at approximately a 1day/24hours I am curious about how much sun is unhealthy. I know you don't need a lot of sun because you get most vitamin D or whatever from you milk. You always hear a healthy tan, but how true is that?



I was under the impression there is nothing wrong about getting only 15 min of sun a day. But you have girls that tan everyday, and go tanning in the winter, and end up looking african. So what's what? If you can provide facts or figures I'd appreciate it because it was also a dispute I had with a friend and I'd like to know who is correct.

powerdoc

There is no easy answer. 15 minutes of normal sun won't hurt anybody.



But it depends of the natural color of your skin : the phototype. A red blond type of skin is much more sensitive than a black one. Red blond type of skin people living in sunny countrie like australia, have a record of skin cancer and especially melanomena.

Melanomena is especially correlled with solar burn especially when you where a child.

Others type of skin cancer are more correlated to a cumulative dose effect. UVB are responsible of 80 % of skin cancer, but UVA is responsible of the other 20 % (australian studie) . UVA is also resonsible of the aging of the skin.

wrong robot

I think it's safe to say, any frequent visitor of these forums will explode after 5 seconds of natural light.

gspotter

Apart from the skin type, the location is also relevant: Ozone hole or not, distance from equator etc. Some years ago we went on vacation to the canary islands. On the first day we wanted to go the beach for a little while. Unfortunately, we dozed of and lay for over an hour in the sun. -> big sunburn.

scott

As little as possible. "Healthy tan" is a complete myth. The girls in the tanning booth are killing themselves and turning their skin into leather. Stay out of the sun a much as possible. You'll get enough sun just doing that.

thuh freak

Quote:

Originally posted by Powerdoc

15 minutes of normal sun won't hurt anybody.

my dermatologist told me 15 minutes hurts me. i went to him a couple of years ago, and it was nearly autumn. and i had a few odd patches of skin here or there. he took one look at em and said they's was sun burn. i was like, "but i dont even go to the beach or nothing, and those don't look like my normal burn." he was like, "its not a bad sun burn, just a light one. are you irish? start wearin sunscreen on ur way to work." and by the by, on my way to or from work, i'm only out in the sun about 15 minutes, probably less.

carol a

Quote:

Originally posted by Wrong Robot

I think it's safe to say, any frequent visitor of these forums will explode after 5 seconds of natural light.

billybobsky

i was only twelve when i got a benign growth removed from my back. I was a beach bum as a kid, dark in the summer with blond streaks in my ordinarily dark brown hair. the summer before the growth on my back was removed i dug a thirty foot trench in the beach for four hours with no care as to what would happen (even now sunburns are just temporary, I tan really easily). My back was purple at the end of the day...



Anyway, I don't go in the sun or if i do it is when it is nearly setting...

carol a

I think it's great to be outside. But one should wear SPF 45 at first, and *always* use sunscreen on the exposed body - arms, legs, and not neglecting back of the neck, throat, ears, face, hands. One should wear a hat that shades the face.



I used to know a PE teacher who refused to wear sunscreen. He was very vain about his good looks, and probably considered it unmanly to protect his skin. His tan was dark-brown most of the year.



Then in the summer, he worked in his brother-in-law's insecticide business, spraying homes.....more exposure to carcinogens.



Result? He got cancer (probably melanoma) on the back of his neck. I'm not sure of the details, because after a while, he refused to let anyone visit him. I think they removed part of his jaw, to no avail. Eventually his medical insurance ran out, his wife had to quit work to care for him, they lost their home, and were on the verge of being evicted from their apartment when he finally died. Teachers were actually collecting money for his wife, because they were broke. It was just the most horrible thing.



I wonder how many times, as he lay dying, he thought about my asking him (which I did frequently) if he had been using sunscreen.



I would NEVER, EVER consent to be a PE teacher and have to spend most of the year in the sun all day...especially in the sunny part of the world in which I live.

billybobsky

That is a horrible story carol.



People also forget that sunscreens contain carcinogens...

burningwheel

i used to "catch rays" in my youth without sunscreen unless i was in florida, then i did use sunscreen. i recently went to the a dermo and she said i didn't really have much sun damage, so i'm lucky so far



i use sunscreen when playing tennis outside even if i'm in the shade

powerdoc

Quote:

Originally posted by billybobsky

That is a horrible story carol.



People also forget that sunscreens contain carcinogens...

In bad products, maybe, but it's not the case in good sunscreens. Sunscreens are mandatory in sunny aeras. I never seen a single scientific article claiming that that sunscreens increased the rate of cancer.

carol a

Quote:

Originally posted by billybobsky

That is a horrible story carol.



People also forget that sunscreens contain carcinogens...

Hi Billybobsky -



Yes, it IS a terrible story. And this guy was SO proud of how handsome and fit he was. How horribly ironic that the thing that killed him would cause part of his face to be removed.



I never did understand about them running out of money. I thought social security 'disability' payments would have kicked in to help out. Maybe they 'did', but were too slow in coming - you know how bureaucracies work.



No, I didn't know sunscreens contained carcinogens. Which ingredients are carcinogenic?



Edit: at first, after he'd had chemotherapy, he still came to school in order to keep his paycheck coming in, but he couldn't go out onto the field with the kids. He would lie on a bench in the locker room, while his 21-year-old son (who was probably classified as a substitute teacher) ran all the PE classes for him. The principal allowed this arrangement, though I doubt it was strictly within the 'rules'. She was a very compassionate person. Everyone tried to do what they could, but it just wasn't enough. Sigh.

billybobsky

Statistically what would the test be? There are two experiments that can be done. The first is +/- sunscreen in sun. The cancer causing rate from excessive sun exposure probably will overwhelm the carcinogenic effects of the sunscreen agents (all of the popular ones are suspected carcinogens -- granted everything is a suspected carcinogen even sand). The other test that is probably less likely to be committed to is +/- sunscreen without sun. There I would suspect you would begin to see a rise in the cases of cancer with sunscreen over the absolute control of no sunscreen.



Basically, if you are going out in the sun where sunscreen, but if you aren't you are better off not putting it on...



It seems obvious but...

kickaha

Especially since if you're not going out in the sun, you don't have any *REASON* to put sunscreen on...



I do have to believe that most people aren't going to be putting on sunscreen before going to bed at night and such, y'know?



Then of course there's the question of "How *MUCH* sunscreen ingredient in question is needed to initiate a carcinogenic reaction? Is this amount a reasonable dosage for someone applying sunscreen to be exposed to?" Didn't we learn anything from the Alar fiasco?

johnq

Quote:

Originally posted by billybobsky



Basically, if you are going out in the sun where sunscreen, but if you aren't you are better off not putting it on...



It seems obvious but...

My brain hurts. Ok, why would someone put sunscreen on if they weren't going to go outside? I mean I can see putting it on an changing plans but that would rarely happen. You make it seem like a section of humanity lounges around indoors slathered in sunscreen Hm...on second though I don't want to know

billybobsky

Well yes... but there are mothers who obsessively put sunscreen on their kids and well that just can't be good...

wrong robot

you can use butter as a sunscreen, or vegetable/olive oil, just be sure not to cook your self.

ast3r3x

Quote:

Originally posted by Wrong Robot

I think it's safe to say, any frequent visitor of these forums will explode after 5 seconds of natural light.

...tries to find a way to hide post count

Quote:

Originally posted by billybobsky

... My back was purple at the end of the day...



Anyway, I don't go in the sun or if i do it is when it is nearly setting...

I used to, before middle teens, go out without sunscreen and get real purple. It never bothered me because while I get sunburnt like any average person, it rarely hurts very much at all.

carol a

Quote:

Originally posted by billybobsky

Well yes... but there are mothers who obsessively put sunscreen on their kids and well that just can't be good...

Good point. My dad took me swimming at the country club once when I was a little girl and let me FRY. My mother didn't speak to him for days afterward. He was probably reading a book in the shade while time slipped away. One hour might've done it. Poor dad. I'm sure she raked him over the coals mercilessly.



I'm sure you read the study over the last year or two which found that mothers who cleaned, disinfected, and anti-bacteria-ized their houses (and children) obsessively, were more likely to have kids that in later life had asthma and other respiratory problems - I presume as a result of NOT being exposed to common childhood bacteria and allergens.



Interesting, don't you think? I remember when I was four wanting to eat the mud that had dried up in the street gutter - the mud was so smooooth and attractive-looking, the way it had dried, cracked, and curled up. 'Course my mom didn't 'know' about that. I'm sure she wouldn't have approved. I definitely led a kid's life. Lots of stubbed toes and no frilly dresses for Carol.

dmband0026

This sun thing is too big of a deal. We're just looking for another thing to scare ourselves about. I don't think that too much sun isn't just a little bit unhealthy, but there are people out there now who refuse to even go outside in the summer.

I think I was one of the lucky ones, I go my grandpa's skin. He is a (former) farmer and now manages a pool. He has spent nearly every day of his life in the sun and has never picked up a bottle of sunscreen. He has never had skin cancer, and his skin is still relatively healthy looking (as healthy looking as an 80 year old man's skin gets). I swim and coach for a team in the summer and we practice outside. So I have spent everyday of the summer for the pas 12 years outside in the sun for several hours of the day. At the beginning of the summer, I'm pretty careful, I try to wear a hat for a while and I put on SPF 30 or above. But after a while, I just don't bother anymore. I get a pretty good tan and I don't burn anymore. My skin is really healthy, not leathery or anything like that.