The Military and Censorship

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
Taking a break from all things Bush for a bit, this article I found in the times surprised me. I really have a hard time understanding why the military commanders in charge of this particular outfit, thought it a good idea to shut-down an entire newspaper. That's for 60 days or 60 hours.



That it is anti-American is to be expected (most papers probably are, in that region), but shuttering the doors and putting those people out of work -- who in turn just use the whole thing to their advantage, gaining more support -- was really stupid.



Fight papers with better papers (or radio or TV). Not guns. I don't sympathize with any publication that has rumor and half-truth as its basis for fact, but if we have the courage of our convictions, we let that paper run, and counter it in other ways. This only gives the nut-job behind the paper and their supporters a stronger stance in the community.



We want people to support publications like this less, not more.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 34
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    Maybe in a civilized society that's a great plan. In fact that's what they are doing everyday. These guys are operating in a war zone of a fledgling democracy. If this paper is printing lies that cost lives then why keep it open? My understanding is that there are dozens of independent papers running in Iraq now. Shutting one down isn't going to set freedom on its ear.
  • Reply 2 of 34
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,016member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Scott

    Maybe in a civilized society that's a great plan. In fact that's what they are doing everyday. These guys are operating in a war zone of a fledgling democracy. If this paper is printing lies that cost lives then why keep it open? My understanding is that there are dozens of independent papers running in Iraq now. Shutting one down isn't going to set freedom on its ear.



    I have to agree. Actually, I've heard that there are hundreds of papers now as opposed to only a handful of state owned ones just last year. The last thing needed is a paper like the one that's been described. One cannot automatically apply our standards of freedom of speech and press because Iraq is in a critical phase right now.
  • Reply 3 of 34
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    This is another example of poor journalism by the NYT. Putting the "news analysis" first and leaving the who what where when and why to later.



    G.I.'s Padlock Baghdad Paper Accused of Lies



    Quote:

    The letter ordering the paper closed, signed by L. Paul Bremer III, the top administrator in Iraq, cited what the American authorities called several examples of false reports in Al Hawza, including a February dispatch that said the cause of an explosion that killed more than 50 Iraqi police recruits was not a car bomb, as occupation officials had said, but an American missile.



  • Reply 4 of 34
    moogsmoogs Posts: 4,296member
    As I said, I understand the paper -- when evaluated upon its merits -- is pretty much worthless. But once you go down that road and you start shuttering newspapers (whether you like them or not), where do you stop? If some of these others papers publish anti-American rumors should we shut those down also? There are dozens or maybe hundreds after all... what's a few more?



    And is the act of shutting them down likely to cause even more anti-American sentiment / action than the actual paper itself? "Look! The Americans are censoring us... they don't want you to read the truth!"



    Better to let them spread the BS rumors and counter it in other ways, IMO. Surely there are people there who would prefer to report things more impartially, whether a particular story is anti-American or not. Why not prop up a few new papers with a more balanced view (but still all-Iraqi staff) for example? How many papers could we prop up for the cost of a couple tanks?



    As long as we keep our fingers out of the editorial office and just fund their circulations as long as they avoid the "tabloid temptations", I think that would be a wiser solution. Far from "perfect world" but likely more effective in combating rumor and the like.
  • Reply 5 of 34
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    We absolutely shouldn't shut them down as long as there's a decent source to cournter act the lies. If they really do report straight out lies, there has to be some papers willing to report the truth. The truth will out-balance the lies.
  • Reply 6 of 34
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by segovius

    Ok I have read Scott's link and the first thing that springs to mind is that the argument of "the last thing needed is a paper like this" is superflous.



    Such a paper merely describes what is 'on the street' and as such it cannot incite to anything worse. In fact, there probably isn't much worse than the Baghdad street right now (in terms of US popularity) so really it is irrelevant.



    ...




    You don't know that to be the case at all. To me it seems like this paper is more of a propoganda rag for a local "leader". Is "what is 'one the street'" what the paper prints or does the paper print "what is 'one the street'". Those are two different things. If it's repeating lies without context or explination then it doesn't matter which is the case.
  • Reply 7 of 34
    We're fighting the dirty, never ending battle of counter-insurgency. The things we have to do in order to win, a goal that to my understanding has never fully been accomplished, are oftentimes dirty and undesirable. If the commanders there think it will save american lives and help quell the insurgents, I don't have a problem with it.
  • Reply 8 of 34
    buonrottobuonrotto Posts: 6,368member
    You know what, though, between letting the paper run with it spreading FUD and dangerous rumors and shutting down the operation and setting up more local sympathy, I'm not sure which is worse. I mean, it's not having one and not the other would be a good thing. Both situations are bad, so it's just a question of the lesser of two evils, or perhaps the long-term impact of one bad situation versus another.



    sWill public attention and symphathy die out for this after a few weeks? If it's anything like the Western attention span for news like this, the answer is yes, people will forget about this in 2 weeks. We'll find out whether that's true or not.
  • Reply 9 of 34
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    For those that didn't bother to read the article as soon as the Iraqi goverment takes over in a few months they can choose to allow the paper to run again. I'm guessing the order to close it down will end at that point so the default condition is that that lockout on the paper will be released baring any action from the provisional government.
  • Reply 10 of 34
    moogsmoogs Posts: 4,296member
    I certainly read it. I also read that a 60 day shutdown is tantamount to putting them out of business, according to the few people quoted. I have no trouble believing those people running the paper have no other means of income, given the state Iraq is in right now. Not exactly a hot job market...



    Also, "as soon as the Iraqi government takes over" could easily end up being a lot more than "a few months"... surely you must be aware of that possibility. So as I alluded to, 60 days might as well be "indefinitely" in that particular context.
  • Reply 11 of 34
    pfflampfflam Posts: 5,053member
    I don't know . . I kinda think it is like outlawing Nazism in Germany . . . considering the context it seems completely justified.
  • Reply 12 of 34
    moogsmoogs Posts: 4,296member
    I don't you can fairly make that analogy. If it were Saddam's official paper or something like that, yes, you could compare it to shutting Nazis down in Germany. Otherwise no.



    I just think that in the WOT, and in Iraq in particular, we had better pay careful attention to "the law of unintended consequences". I think this action could have some bad ones (i.e. it is the greater of two evils in this case).
  • Reply 13 of 34
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    We're way beyond "the law of unintended consequences". At this point on paper being locked down is meaningless.
  • Reply 14 of 34
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    Ah "quagmire" were back to "quagmire". Great!
  • Reply 15 of 34
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    Do your best to focus only on the bad things that happen and always ignore all the progress in every other area. QUAGMIRE! It's like Vietnam all over again while being nothing like it at all.
  • Reply 16 of 34
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    "cycle of violence" the other meaningless catch phrase.
  • Reply 17 of 34
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Scott

    Ah "quagmire" were back to "quagmire". Great!



    The only time I've ever seen this used in reference to Iraq was by a soldier who had returned home from the war.
  • Reply 18 of 34
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
  • Reply 19 of 34
    jubelumjubelum Posts: 4,490member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by bunge

    The only time I've ever seen this used in reference to Iraq was by a soldier who had returned home from the war.



    Well, my local dem's have it on their talking points...



    Here are a few people using the "Q" word...



    Sen. Robert "Sheets" Byrd



    Sen John Kerry



    Sen John Kerry



    Rep Neil Abercrombie



    Sen Carol Moseley Braun



    Rep. Dick Gephardt



    Sen. Tom Harkin



    Paul Krugman (New York Times)
  • Reply 20 of 34
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Jubelum

    Well, my local dem's have it on their talking points...



    Cool. I guess they listened to the soldiers.
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