Nvidia launches GeForce 6 series graphics chip
This Article Has some of the scoop on this card, but we'll never see it because we have PCI X not Express. The real cool info (which is actually the biggest bummer) comes from this WMV located at this link http://www.chasingradium.com/~nvidia...real3_0002.wmv and here
http://www.hanners.nildram.co.uk/unreal3_0002.wmv
http://www.hanners.nildram.co.uk/unreal3_0002.wmv
Comments
Originally posted by onlooker
but we'll never see it because we have PCI X not Express.
Change that to "we'll never see it in the current line up". The 3GHz boxes should have PCI Express - unless Apple's really dumb. The speed bumped, Rev B, machines wouldn't have gotten it, but those seem to have been overcome by events now.
I really wasn't expecting Rev C machines - with PCI Express, etc. at NAB; but with ATI and nVidia showing off their PCI Express cards maybe Apple will surprise us?
I'm almost glad the Rev B machines had problems, I probably would have bought one and missed out on PCI Express goodness. Guess now I'll wait till PCI Express machines get released.
- Jasen.
Edit:
The article says: "The GeForce 6800 is designed for PCI Express interfaces and also offers full support for AGP 8x interfaces." (emphasis added) The current hardware has AGP 8x. Nothing to whine about here.
Originally posted by onlooker
I spotted that as well, but the my complaint is still that we'll still probably be stuck with PCI X for a while. Motherboard redesign, and Apple are unlikely. PCI X is still going to hold back the PowerMac. ATI, and Nvidia are both going the PCI Express rout. What's left? Outdated hardware that's what's left.
PCI Express would replace AGP on the board, not PCI-X, at least initially.
Apple won't (and shouldn't) replace PCI-X until there's no demand for PCI cards. Right now, the professional market still has many of them, and many pros expect to stick a multi-thousand-dollar card they already have in a new PowerMac and have it work. In a couple of months, they'll be able to get away with replacing AGP with PCI Express, because all new video cards will come with support for PCI Express, it's a better tech, and there's hardly any aftermarket on the Mac side, and little demand for carrying over AGP cards (because there's only ever one slot, and they improve so quickly).
Originally posted by Amorph
PCI Express would replace AGP on the board, not PCI-X, at least initially.
Apple won't (and shouldn't) replace PCI-X until there's no demand for PCI cards. . .
I was looking at Intel's information on PCI Express, and it appears that Intel boards will have both standard and Express PCI slots available for several years.
I can't imagine anyone paying 400 for a such a power-hungry and ridiculously big card. Fast...but poorly designed, IMO.
Originally posted by snoopy
I was looking at Intel's information on PCI Express, and it appears that Intel boards will have both standard and Express PCI slots available for several years.
PCI Express is a different slot..and it is new on the marketplace, recently announced late last year. (this is the slot that will replace the AGP slot, so it will be for video cards only)
PCI-X is a replacement for regular PCI (ie ethernet cards, firewire cards and those items will fit here)
Express PCI I believe is just another name for regular PCI. Or an older version of PCI.
So yes mac users are out of luck for the PCI-Express users...but most PC users are out of luck too. I can't think of any PC's shipping with PCI Express
Tom's Hardware doesn't think there will be that much advantage for PCI Express in the near term. In their opinion it is more a solution looking for a problem than anything revolutionary or "must have".
So Apple may safely and smartly stay with AGP for another Rev or two.
- Jasen.
Originally posted by jade
PCI Express is a different slot..and it is new on the marketplace, recently announced late last year. (this is the slot that will replace the AGP slot, so it will be for video cards only)
PCI-X is a replacement for regular PCI (ie ethernet cards, firewire cards and those items will fit here)
Express PCI I believe is just another name for regular PCI. Or an older version of PCI.
So yes mac users are out of luck for the PCI-Express users...but most PC users are out of luck too. I can't think of any PC's shipping with PCI Express
PCI Express is not for video cards only. It is a general purpose bus and will completely replace PCI and PCI-X at some point in the future. In the meantime, hardware will be in a transition, since there are many existing cards for these earlier PCI boards. PCI Express takes data lines in parallel to get faster data transfer. They will be 1X, 2X, 4X, 8X and 16X versions of the connectors, if my memory is holding up. The video boards take a 16X slot for the highest transfer rate, for now.
It's a question of strategy and timing, how and when Apple will transition to PCI Express. It's possible to begin by offering only the PCI Express video card slot, or possibly, as Intel will be doing, put a few of each on the mother board.
Originally posted by Amorph
PCI Express would replace AGP on the board, not PCI-X, at least initially.
PCI Express should replace the PCI X, and AGP all in one swoop. It's faster than both, and not totally dedicated to either. It's like how the PCI used to work (or still does pre sawtooth). All your cards (including video) would run from it. It's like a 16X AGP slot, but it's universal.
I think tom's hardware must have overlooked some finer points on this interface when that article was written (I didn't read it) like they did with SATA back when they assumed it was minimally faster than ATA when in fact it's throughput transfer reduced system CPU usage. Regular ATA was soaking up 95% of your CPU while SATA was using like 1/4th, or 1/8th of that. I forget the details, but I was starting to think toms hardware had been bought.
Originally posted by onlooker
PCI Express should replace the PCI X, and AGP all in one swoop. It's faster than both, and not totally dedicated to either. It's like how the PCI used to work (or still does pre sawtooth). All your cards (including video) would run from it. It's like a 16X AGP slot, but it's universal.
I think tom's hardware must have overlooked some finer points on this interface when that article was written (I didn't read it) like they did with SATA back when they assumed it was minimally faster than ATA when in fact it's throughput transfer reduced system CPU usage. Regular ATA was soaking up 95% of your CPU while SATA was using like 1/4th, or 1/8th of that. I forget the details, but I was starting to think toms hardware had been bought.
No. Amorph is correct. Hardware developers have no plans for a wholesale migration over to PCI Express. It doesn't really matter if it's faster if the current card tech is a known quantity. Motherboard developers have already pretty much stated that for some time you will see both co-exist.
I think both ATI and Nvidia will have AGP and PCIe versions of their cards so for the near future we'll be fine.
Originally posted by onlooker
PCI Express should replace the PCI X, and AGP all in one swoop. It's faster than both, and not totally dedicated to either. It's like how the PCI used to work (or still does pre sawtooth). All your cards (including video) would run from it. It's like a 16X AGP slot, but it's universal. . .
It looks like there are actually six different connectors, x1, x2, x4, x8, x16 and x32. (I got the x and number reversed in my previous post.) My guess is that desktop computers will settle on two or three of these connectors. The numbers represent the number of lines, and therefore the speed of data transfer. The more lines, the longer the connector, which has repeating patterns of the x1 data connection pattern. The x16 is used for video boards, but could be used for other very high speed boards. My guess is that you will be able to plug a slower, say x1, board into a higher bandwidth board, but it would be a waste of unused lines. Just my guess.
From an Intel document, "Initial implementations of PCI Express-based add-in cards will coexist alongside the current PCI-form factor boards."
Originally posted by hmurchison
No. Amorph is correct. Hardware developers have no plans for a wholesale migration over to PCI Express. It doesn't really matter if it's faster if the current card tech is a known quantity. Motherboard developers have already pretty much stated that for some time you will see both co-exist.
I think both ATI and Nvidia will have AGP and PCIe versions of their cards so for the near future we'll be fine.
But I thought PCIe could accept regular PCI cards? There would be no other hardware migration needed? High end Video cards have already migrated. Wouldn't it be more simple to not to cut the board in two so you could have 1 PCIe connection rather than cut it in two. Wouldn't that also create a bottleneck to have two sets of connections to the main board just to have faster PCIe for graphics in one slot, and 3 PCI X slots? It seems like a total waste to do it that way.
Here is a few articles I found on the card, and a picture.
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=2023
Here is one from Toms hardware
http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040414/index.html