Yet another Israel thread, Bush breaking with the UN and Internatinal Law...

newnew
Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
CNN

BBC

NY Times



Well, basically the genius president of the US went another step down the road of alienating himself from the arab world, (and the UN for that matter)...



Bush has stated, during his meeting with Sharon, that due to the new "realties" on the ground Isreal has the right to keep "some" (read the four biggest) settlements in the West Bank as part of a future permanent solution.



Sharon has been instrumental in making these "new realities" on the ground since the early seventies, and now his plans has paid of. The largest of these settlements actually cuts the west bank in two just outside Jerusalem. making any travel form south to north difficult.



Letting Israel keep these settlements is a grave violation of international law. But who cares. So much for peace in the Middle East...



Edit: sorry for the misspelling in the heading.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 52
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    "international law" went out the door a long time ago in that region.
  • Reply 2 of 52
    newnew Posts: 3,244member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Scott

    "international law" went out the door a long time ago in that region.



    And you think that's just fine, don't you?
  • Reply 3 of 52
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    No it's just the reality.
  • Reply 4 of 52
    newnew Posts: 3,244member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Scott

    No it's just the reality.



    So, sould we strive to reinstall international law in the area, or should we just don't give a damn?
  • Reply 5 of 52
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    In the real world "international law" won?t be enforeced on all parties involved. So find a different solution.
  • Reply 6 of 52
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Scott

    In the real world "international law" won?t be enforeced on all parties involved. So find a different solution.



    Why not? Why the hell not? Why should international law not be enforced when the stakes are high as this? What is stopping whom?
  • Reply 7 of 52
    jubelumjubelum Posts: 4,490member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah

    Why not? Why the hell not? Why should international law not be enforced when the stakes are high as this? What is stopping whom?



    The UN needs some viagra before it tries any "international law" crap. Those folks are impotent. And the reason for Iraq. They did not enforce their resolutions for how many years?



    <climbs back in foxhole>
  • Reply 8 of 52
    naderfannaderfan Posts: 156member
    If I remember my politics courses correctly, and there's every chance that I can't, international courts don't have jurisdiction over countries. Therefore, if a country won't show up for the ruling, the ruling won't hold. They have no way of imposing it. The UN has a little bit more power, but in order to pass any resolution, they'd have to get pass the US and its veto, and there's a very good chance the US would veto any resolution formed against it. International law is important, and works well against individuals, such as Milosevic, but it doesn't work against nations. And it won't, unless nations are willing to give up a bit of their sovereignty, which the United States has refused, as have many other countries. There's very little the world can do as far as US policy in Israel is concerned. That's just the state of affairs at this time.
  • Reply 9 of 52
    Jubelum, without a positive contribution from the most powerful nation on earth the UN is indeed impotent, and this a great pity, I agree.



    We need some new thinking and urgent, impartial action, and without this there will never be a solution. There has to be a solution or we may as well give up now.
  • Reply 10 of 52
    newnew Posts: 3,244member
    Here's another quite good NYT article on the subject.



    I believe you can use appleinsider as both username and password.



    Quote:

    Imagine if Palestinians said, `O.K., we give California to Canada,' " said Michael Tarazi, a legal adviser for the Palestine Liberation Organization. "Americans should stop wondering why they have so little credibility in the Middle East."



  • Reply 11 of 52
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    The law is being broken in a way that makes some people here happy so they don't care. They're essentially useless in a civilized society.
  • Reply 12 of 52
    aquaticaquatic Posts: 5,602member
    Quote:

    The UN needs some viagra before it tries any "international law" crap.



    Added to my sig.



    True. Europe needs to grow some balls. First: take big action against the US on this issue. Halt all trading, whatever it takes. This is serious and could result in World War 3 and anyone who thinks otherwise does not know the facts and is way too optimistic. Second, take a harder line against other US aggression, like Microsoft!!! Europe really turned in to a pussy.
  • Reply 13 of 52
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by New

    Here's another quite good NYT article on the subject.



    I believe you can use appleinsider as both username and password.




    That was an account I set up for some cry babies here. Everyone feel free to use it.



    Imagine if New Jersey were blowing up busses in Manhattan, killing woman and children, over Ellis Island?





    Oh no wait we don?t want to confront those violations of ?international law?. Only the violations the Jews commit. OOOps there I go again I mean Israelis.
  • Reply 14 of 52
    newnew Posts: 3,244member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Scott

    That was an account I set up for some cry babies here. Everyone feel free to use it.



    Imagine if New Jersey were blowing up busses in Manhattan, killing woman and children, over Ellis Island?



    Oh no wait we don?t want to confront those violations of ?international law?. Only the violations the Jews commit. OOOps there I go again I mean Israelis.




    Actually, your particular example wouldn't be regulated by international law.
  • Reply 15 of 52
    haraldharald Posts: 2,152member
    I feel very depressed about this.



    "In the unilateral plan, there is no Palestinian state. This situation could continue for many years ... [the plan] will bring their [the Palestinians'] dreams to an end. When you fence areas and communities in the West Bank, you end a lot of their dreams. My plan is tough on the Palestinians. A mortal blow."



    -- Ariel Sharon



    So, there's no way this is going to let the Palestinians feel like they should have any hope. No hope, more pointless murders of Israelis. When the violence increases, Arafat gets taken out, or Gaza is bombed to shit. More violence.



    Bush has said, at the worst time it is possible to say it, that 'realities on the ground' are the most important thing. That people have no right to return to land they were evicted from. That ethnic cleansing is OK if it's our allies that are doing it.



    There's going to be a ****ing bloodbath. When it happens I'll draw no pleasure from saying "I told you so."
  • Reply 16 of 52
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Harald

    I feel very depressed about this.



    "In the unilateral plan, there is no Palestinian state. This situation could continue for many years ... [the plan] will bring their [the Palestinians'] dreams to an end. When you fence areas and communities in the West Bank, you end a lot of their dreams. My plan is tough on the Palestinians. A mortal blow."



    -- Ariel Sharon



    So, there's no way this is going to let the Palestinians feel like they should have any hope. No hope, more pointless murders of Israelis. When the violence increases, Arafat gets taken out, or Gaza is bombed to shit. More violence.






    Why is it Israel's responsibility to create hope for the Palestinians?



    Quote:

    Originally posted by Harald

    Bush has said, at the worst time it is possible to say it, that 'realities on the ground' are the most important thing. That people have no right to return to land they were evicted from. That ethnic cleansing is OK if it's our allies that are doing it.



    I feel that calling it "ethnic cleansing" is anti-Semitic on your part. That's not the situation at hand and you only play into the terrorists hands when you use such hyperbole.



    Quote:

    Originally posted by Harald

    There's going to be a ****ing bloodbath. When it happens I'll draw no pleasure from saying "I told you so."



    Maybe the wall will work. There's some indication that it already has had a positive effect for both sides.
  • Reply 17 of 52
    newnew Posts: 3,244member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Scott

    Maybe the wall will work. There's some indication that it already has had a positive effect for both sides.



    What are those indications?
  • Reply 18 of 52
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    I'll see if I can find the news link. One of the Palestinian cities was over run by terrorist thugs. They just don't terrorize the Jews you know. When the wall went up the terrorist are believed to have moved out for easier digs leaving the Palestinians that actually live there alone. No more thugs, no more Israel army trying to kill the thugs means that life can get back to normal. Shops reopen, people make money, jobs are created ...
  • Reply 19 of 52
    newnew Posts: 3,244member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Scott

    Shops reopen, people make money, jobs are created ...



    yup, it's a good life, there in the shadow of the wall...



  • Reply 20 of 52
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    Before anyone jumps down my throat in a typical assholeish AI rage. TAKE THIS FOR WHAT IT IS. I'm not saying this is right or wrong I just read it and found it interesting. They say the wall means that the army doesn't have to go into Jenin as much as before and as such life is getting more normal. Nothing about the terrorists (ooops I mean freedom fighters ) moving out though like I posted above.



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