Which is most likely for the next iMac revision...
1. Slight spec bump, same form factor, lower prices?
2. Slight spec bump, different form factor that would accommodate a future G5, lower prices?
3. G5 1.6/1.8, new form factor, same prices?
4. Funeral and introduction of something completely different?
Because it has taken so long after the modest eMac update, I think it highly unlikely they will just introduce more of the same. There is no explanation for such a delay. Therefore, they have to be waiting on a new form factor to be fully tested, or the G5, or both.
Personally, I am in favor of #4. I believe it is time for Apple to start thinking differently about the consumer marketplace. However, I also believe it is the least likely of the options. At this point, I believe #3 to be most likely, though I hope they find a way to lower prices.
I am going to buy my wife either an eMac or an iMac for her first Mac. I am giving the iMac a chance to earn my money but it would have to be pretty compelling for me to pass on the eMac. The only thing is, my wife really likes the form factor of the iMac so I am waiting to see if it will be worth it.
2. Slight spec bump, different form factor that would accommodate a future G5, lower prices?
3. G5 1.6/1.8, new form factor, same prices?
4. Funeral and introduction of something completely different?
Because it has taken so long after the modest eMac update, I think it highly unlikely they will just introduce more of the same. There is no explanation for such a delay. Therefore, they have to be waiting on a new form factor to be fully tested, or the G5, or both.
Personally, I am in favor of #4. I believe it is time for Apple to start thinking differently about the consumer marketplace. However, I also believe it is the least likely of the options. At this point, I believe #3 to be most likely, though I hope they find a way to lower prices.
I am going to buy my wife either an eMac or an iMac for her first Mac. I am giving the iMac a chance to earn my money but it would have to be pretty compelling for me to pass on the eMac. The only thing is, my wife really likes the form factor of the iMac so I am waiting to see if it will be worth it.
Comments
At this point, if the iMac was going to get the same refresh as the eMac it would have happened already, if not at the same time as the eMac refresh.
I think we'll see a G5 iMac at WWDC. It's only about 6 weeks away. The form factor will probably be updated, but essentially the same. Really, it's the best AIO design this planet has ever seen, it just needs to be a little cheaper to manufacture.
A 1.6 Ghz G5 iMac at $999 or $1099 (15" display) would be a bombshell, especially if it's followed by a G5 Cube at the same price a month later.
Originally posted by spankalee
I think we'll see what's behind door #3.
At this point, if the iMac was going to get the same refresh as the eMac it would have happened already, if not at the same time as the eMac refresh.
I tend to agree with you, but on the other hand, apple can be very patient to run the supply dry
Originally posted by spankalee
A 1.6 Ghz G5 iMac at $999 or $1099 (15" display) would be a bombshell, especially if it's followed by a G5 Cube at the same price a month later.
Unfortunately the emac prices rule out this price for the imacs,barring some miracle.And the imacs need a G5 now to justify their current prices.Right now the imacs are nothing but vanity mirrors.A g5 seems a must but apple certainly knows how to disapoint.
Originally posted by oldmacfan
I think iMac's will get updated before WWDC, that is the domain of the pro machines.
WWDC is the domain of Apple developers, not any particular machine. The G5 was intro'ed there because the timing was right and because there are a lot of changes with the G5 that developers need to be aware of. It had nothing to do with the PowerMac being a pro machine, and WWDC being a pro conference.
The reason why I could see a new iMac at WWDC is mainly because of timing. Without MWNY Apple doesn't have a summer showcase, WWDC is it.
Just my 2 bits...
C.
I'm sorry, I just really can't imagine Apple putting a G5 (and all that it implies) into their consumer desktop BEFORE they put it into their professional laptop. Just doesn't make marketing sense, among other kinds.
Talk about muddying the waters...
Average consumer/switcher: "Now wait...you mean I can't get a PowerBook with this G5 in it? But I thought that was the pro line? But it says here I can get one in an iMac, but I don't want an iMac because..."
I honestly - despite horseshit "rumors" to the contrary - don't expect to see the G5 in much else the remainder of 2004. AND, if we do, it'll be the PowerBook.
But that's just me.
Seems to me the G4 keeps skootching up 200MHz or so at a time, making it nice for a consumer type machine(s), so all but the most idiot, pain-in-butt Spec Whore types will be happy with G4-based iMacs because it totally handles the iApps, iLife, surfing, mailing, DTP, etc.
Putting a G5 in an iMac - right now, anyway - would be like putting some high-end, super-charged racing motor into a Saturn. Yeah, you can do it...but why, when the Saturn more than does the job people need it to? I suppose it would be cool and all, but "cool" shouldn't necessarily be the deciding factor in how to go about things in life and business.
Go buy a Mustang or Ferrari or something (the G5 tower) and be done with it and get over yourself.
Again with the car analogies...
I'm sorry, I just really can't imagine Apple putting a G5 (and all that it implies) into their consumer desktop BEFORE they put it into their professional laptop. Just doesn't make marketing sense, among other kinds.
Apples and oranges... The consumer desktop line has nothing to do with the professional laptop line. If it's feasible for Apple to put a G5 in the iMac before the Powerbook- so be it. The real important thing is that there's (or, at least, there will be) enough of a spread in the G5 speeds so that the iMac doesn't step on the Powermac's toes. The Powerbook doesn't have anything to do with it.
Average consumer/switcher: "Now wait...you mean I can't get a PowerBook with this G5 in it? But I thought that was the pro line? But it says here I can get one in an iMac, but I don't want an iMac because..."
Actually, when the average consumer walks into a computer store, they've got a specific type of computer in mind-- either a laptop OR a desktop. Very few people are going to say, "ok, I've got $2k, what kind of computer can I get with it?" They're more likely to say "ok, I've got $2k, what kind of laptop can I get with it?" or "ok, I've got $2k, what kind of desktop can I get with it?"
Putting a G5 in an iMac - right now, anyway - would be like putting some high-end, super-charged racing motor into a Saturn. Yeah, you can do it...but why, when the Saturn more than does the job people need it to? I suppose it would be cool and all, but "cool" shouldn't necessarily be the deciding factor in how to go about things in life and business.
If that Saturn's sales had been dropping steadily by 8-15% per year for the past few years, I'm sure they'd redesign the thing in order to spark interest. And if the competition is putting high-end, super-charged racing motors in their cars, it would be wise of Saturn to make the same move.
The iMac needs a redesign, because the current form factor is too expensive to build; and if they're going to go to the expense of redesigning the machine, they might as well put a G5 in it. To delay puting the G5 in the iMac solely because the chip isn't yet appropriate for a laptop is silly.
Apple themselves - not US - have kept their line cleanly and clearly segmented between "pro" and "consumer", so, apparently, "one thing does have something to do with the other". We didn't make that grid and apply the words "Power" and "i" to the products.
I'm just basing stuff on what seems to be THEIR S.O.P. for the past 4-5 years (maybe longer).
And any "consumer" halfway serious is going to educate themselves (I would hope) and may very well notice an odd thing in the spec listings, regarding "consumer desktops having a more honkin' chip/guts than a pro laptop".
I would. I have. I do. I'm no high-end tech geek user/buyer...just a regular schmo who likes to read up on things before I buy.
I do, in fact, agree about the iMac and its design. Both tired, not inspiring anyone and, apparently, not the cheapest, most economical and efficient thing to produce.
So yeah, redesign it. I don't care. Couldn't do much worse - in sales and "flagship" status - than it currently is.
Actually, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the iMac WAS redesigned, BUT stayed with a G4. I could totally see it, but I also know that many people here would completely crap their pants and fling themselves out of the nearest window.
The mods would have to create a separate "Bitch about the new iMac" forum, I believe.
Meanwhile, the fact that this new iMac could do everything 96% of the population needs doing with their computers would NEVER enter into it, would it?
It would just be endless "NO G5!!! Waaaaahhhhhhh!"
Ther have only been two major updates since the beginning of 2002. They brought the iMac from 800 MHz to 1.25 GHz, a mere 56% increase. The iBooks have had five since that same time, which have brought them from 600 MHz on the high end to 1.2 GHz on the high end (100% increase). PowerBooks have gone from 667 MHz to 1.5 GHz in four upgrades (a 125% increase). PowerMacs have undergone three revisions, and they've increased by 100% as well. What is this? All Apple's other products have DOUBLED in speed since the beginning of 2002 (and I was being generous with the early 2002 PowerMac, since technically the PowerMacs were at 867 MHz when the FP iMac came out). Yet the flat panel iMac has barely 50% faster than it was at its introduction, and it's had a mere two major revisions. It's clear that there is some reason why the iMac hasn't been killed off yet. I guess people still really like it and buy it despite the awful price/performance ratio. Hey, if Apple can sell them, I say go ahead. But if they can't sell them, they shouldn't be scratching their heads as to why.
I expect either a very disappointing or a very satisfying upgrade. Either it baby-steps to 1.4 or 1.5 GHz, or it takes a huge leap to a G5 at 1.6 or 1.8 GHz. The former is more likely, but there's definitely the possibility for the latter. We'll just have to wait and see. As for timeframe... well, it could be sometime in the next few weeks, but given Apple's general punishment of the iMac line, I wouldn't be surprised to see the next upgrade AFTER WWDC and new PowerMacs, therefore having us wait 9-10 months for this upgrade (actually AVERAGE for FP iMac upgrades).
Certainly seems to always be fairly low on their list of priorities/attention.
Kinda sad...
If I ran the show, the iMac - realizing its name/brand recognition, simplicity, all-in-one idiot-proof design and the Switcherosity potential it represents - would be front and center and probably get the MOST attention/updates/refreshing.
I'd make that model - not the G5 or the iPod - my flagship/centerpiece of the company.
For the majority of folks out there, Apple IS the iMac. And the iMac is Apple.
Or should be, anyway.
But there's a bigger piece of the pie missing - marketing - so I'm also of the opinion that no matter what Apple releases, it won't mean shit in the long run if the average Joe and potential switcher or on-the-fence type simply doesn't know it exists. We can talk G4 vs. G5 all day long, but we here (and other sites like this) are the only ones who give a rat's ass.
I'd wager my left lung that most everyone, minus the most demanding 3D/animation/video-based professional, would be completely served by a 1.5-2.0GHz G4 for all the things MOST people (consumers, students, newbies, hobbyists, digital camcorder/camera owners, soccer moms, grannies, etc.) do with their computers.
They just simply don't know enough about Macs to give them an honest shot. OR they're basing decisions on idiotic myths and things their brother-in-law has told them over the years.
And again, that's on Apple for not attacking that stuff and clearing it up and doing something effective and impactful to get those people.
G4. G5. G6. Who, really, gives a shit besides the already-faithful? Exactly.
1. The modest eMac update suggests that the iMac update will also be small. Otherwise, there is no reason they could not have put in 1.33 GHz or higher into the eMac if the iMac was about to go G5.
2. The length of time between eMac and iMac updates. If it were going to be a silent update with price drop, why wait so long after the eMac update to do it. They are allowing the eMac to shame the iMac right now. They must have a good reason to let that go on.
I'm guessing that the oft speculated redesign is already completed and ready to go. They have had all kinds of time to do that. I am also guessing that they have too many current iMacs in the channel to release anything else. It would be nice if someone could confirm or refute this guess about the inventory. We know they are having G5 troubles. Yet I think they will want to roll the iMac out before the G5 rev. B so that the 3GHz G5 will not have to share the spotlight. An iMac released after the G5 will dilute G5 press and maybe sales.
That being the case. We will see 1.33 and a 1.5 G4 iMacs. They will be distinguished by monitor size, ram, HD size, but both carry a Superdrive. 15" will be dropped. The 17" will be $1499 and the 20" will be $1999. On the high end, there will be a 1.6 GHz G5 (20" only) for $2299. There will be a 1.8 and 2.0 GHz mini tower to fill in the price points as well as a new line of monitors. There has to be a good reason for the monitors to be so stagnate too.
By the way, the mini tower I envision is not a headless iMac. It has a user replaceable HD, VC, Monitor, and optical drive. It will be limited to only one HD and OD with no PCI slot. They will only be able to accommodate an Apple display. None of these features will steal sales away from pros that need a true PM. They would be an outstanding switcher box. And they would be pure profit for Apple.
I'm really starting to like this mini tower.
No one.
I like that idea too.
Honestly, in the 11 years I've been using Macs, I believe I can say I might've known ONE person who installed some type of card into the back of his tower. Some audio-oriented thing in a Sawtooth G4. Everyone else I know never seems to care much about it or use it.
So what would a consumer need it for? Not much, I'd imagine. If you've got FireWire, USB 2.0, Bluetooth, AirPort Extreme, modem, Ethernet, headphones, video-out, audio-in, etc.
Apple could indeed revive something like the Cube (except this time, bypass the crack pipe when determining the price) and load it up with a mid-1GHz G4 or G5, the latest I/O, make it cute and make it affordable AND ADVERSTISE/MARKET THE HELL OUT OF IT and relive 1998 all over again.
Hell, do SOMETHING. Just make people want it and make them feel they can't live without it. Car, electronics and clothing companies do it all the time. Why can't Apple?
Originally posted by Mac Voyer
There are two facts warring against each other.
1. The modest eMac update suggests that the iMac update will also be small. Otherwise, there is no reason they could not have put in 1.33 GHz or higher into the eMac if the iMac was about to go G5.
2. The length of time between eMac and iMac updates. If it were going to be a silent update with price drop, why wait so long after the eMac update to do it. They are allowing the eMac to shame the iMac right now. They must have a good reason to let that go on.
I think you're right about the competing "facts," but I have to disagree with you on your conclusion.
I'm guessing that the oft speculated redesign is already completed and ready to go...
We will see 1.33 and a 1.5 G4 iMacs...
15" will be dropped...
Why would Apple redesign the iMac just to throw a G4 in it? Any redesign will go along with a complete overhaul, including the processor. Anything else will reduce the impact of such a release, even if Apple had a high-end G5 model.
That's another thing I don't think will happen. I don't think Apple wan't to produce two completely different motherboards and chipsets for the iMac. The eMac is the low end G4 iMac.
I also think the 15" will stick around. That way Apple can say "New Flat Panel G5 iMac for only $xxx!" and know that the best selling model will cost more because it's the 17" SuperDrive.
If Apple goes through all the trouble of a redesign and releasing a G5 on the high end, but keeping the low-end G4, they'll upset a lot of people. If a lot of people complain about the lack of an xMac, or whatever, now, think about what will happen if the "consumer" G5 costs $2300 and only comes with a 20" LCD attached.
Apple needs to make a splash, they need to grab headlines, and with a consumer machine. The G5 doesn't cost anymore or produce anymore heat than the G4, so barring some extreme technical difficulty Apple should release a G5 iMac and get as much attention as they can. Who cares about creating confusion between pro portables and consumer desktops. A G5 iMac will be a hit, and the sales and media coverage are worth it.
Now if they can only redo the case so a 15" combo drive costs ~$1000 then they'll be back in the limelight.
Originally posted by pscates
Yeah, what consumer/switcher needs a PCI slot? I mean, if all the crap that normally comes on cards is already built-in, what's the point? Who, honestly, is going to miss that on a consumer mini-tower?
No one.
It's taken years for people to finally figure that one out. Do you remember how many people said Apple should have stuck a PCI slot in the Cube. Made no sense.
Apple could indeed revive something like the Cube (except this time, bypass the crack pipe when determining the price)
The Cube will live again.
None of the "headless iMac" or "xMac" nonsense. Cube 2 all the way. Every Cube owner out there will immediately snatch one up, maybe two if they're afraid it'll be discontinued again. Have you seen how much they sell for on eBay? nuts.
Originally posted by pscates
Seems to me the G4 keeps skootching up 200MHz or so at a time, making it nice for a consumer type machine(s), so all but the most idiot, pain-in-butt Spec Whore types will be happy with G4-based iMacs because it totally handles the iApps, iLife, surfing, mailing, DTP, etc.
Seems to me I remember Jobs saying Apple didnt make "bargin basement" computers,they sure aint priced as such.Then why exactly should they put a "good enough" processor in machines that cost so much? (and why half the hard drive and ram in Apple machines).A 4 year old imac is good enough for the things most people do (I'm on one now) so why waste money on any new apple product.Fashion? I long ago realized that Apple isnt even trying to compete anymore.Why have competative specs when they are only interested in milking the installed base? Spec whores must number 99% of the market because they are the ones not giving Apples products the time of day.I hope they dont drag it out too much longer.Better to die with dignity.
Originally posted by spankalee
The Cube will live again.
None of the "headless iMac" or "xMac" nonsense. Cube 2 all the way. Every Cube owner out there will immediately snatch one up, maybe two if they're afraid it'll be discontinued again. Have you seen how much they sell for on eBay? nuts.
I just sold my base model Cube on eBay for $650. That IS nuts if you consider the fact that an education discount eMac goes for $749!
However, given you can get an eMac's 1.25ghz/SuperDrive for only $999, the iMac's pricing will remain relatively high.
Perhaps we'll see an all SuperDrive line up with these prices?
15" - $1099
17" - $1499
20" - $1,899