New G5 and/or PPC975 - What DO we KNOW?
So, what do we know for sure?
We know IBM is advertising new servers based on POWER 5 "technology".
http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/iseries/announce/
They never say what exact model of processor is used on the low end systems. Just this:
A look at the various options show models with one dual-core processor on the low end versus quad core multiprocessor units int the highest models.
No processor models are listed just POWER 5 "based" systems. Maybe it means they're all POWER 5 chips. However, if it's true that there is a POWER5 derivative, and that it was scheduled to be ready before or at the same time as the POWER 5 then, one could hopefully assume that the dervative chip (dare we say PPC 975?) could be ready and in fact in use in the low end server?
What else do we know for sure? We've seen new pics from Apple's Service department on a new G5 model, along with evidence of the same in the innards of OS X plists.
My opinion:
I find it highly unlikely that IBM would publish an article on their website which compares their processor offerings with the competition that inaccurately represents them. I also find it very likely that Apple has requested that IBM not publicize the POWER5 derivative. Hence no reference anywhere except a reprint of a Taiwanese IT magazine article. This has happened multiple times in Apple's history.
I think that the PPC 97X is nearly ready if not already done. I think that the new cooling box might be beefy enought to handle dual-core dual-chips for a 4 processor system.
Well, that's what I know and think. Any other concrete (set up or otherwise) evidence?
We know IBM is advertising new servers based on POWER 5 "technology".
http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/iseries/announce/
They never say what exact model of processor is used on the low end systems. Just this:
Quote:
"The new eServer i5 server is the industry's first server based on IBM POWER5? technology and it is designed to reduce complexity, help simplify your infrastructure and enhance productivity."
"The new eServer i5 server is the industry's first server based on IBM POWER5? technology and it is designed to reduce complexity, help simplify your infrastructure and enhance productivity."
A look at the various options show models with one dual-core processor on the low end versus quad core multiprocessor units int the highest models.
No processor models are listed just POWER 5 "based" systems. Maybe it means they're all POWER 5 chips. However, if it's true that there is a POWER5 derivative, and that it was scheduled to be ready before or at the same time as the POWER 5 then, one could hopefully assume that the dervative chip (dare we say PPC 975?) could be ready and in fact in use in the low end server?
What else do we know for sure? We've seen new pics from Apple's Service department on a new G5 model, along with evidence of the same in the innards of OS X plists.
My opinion:
I find it highly unlikely that IBM would publish an article on their website which compares their processor offerings with the competition that inaccurately represents them. I also find it very likely that Apple has requested that IBM not publicize the POWER5 derivative. Hence no reference anywhere except a reprint of a Taiwanese IT magazine article. This has happened multiple times in Apple's history.
I think that the PPC 97X is nearly ready if not already done. I think that the new cooling box might be beefy enought to handle dual-core dual-chips for a 4 processor system.
Well, that's what I know and think. Any other concrete (set up or otherwise) evidence?
Comments
Originally posted by BlueKnight
So, what do we know for sure?
Absolutely Nothing.
Originally posted by BlueKnight
So, what do we know for sure?
We know IBM is advertising new servers based on POWER 5 "technology".
http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/iseries/announce/
They never say what exact model of processor is used on the low end systems. Just this:
A look at the various options show models with one dual-core processor on the low end versus quad core multiprocessor units int the highest models.
No processor models are listed just POWER 5 "based" systems. Maybe it means they're all POWER 5 chips. However, if it's true that there is a POWER5 derivative, and that it was scheduled to be ready before or at the same time as the POWER 5 then, one could hopefully assume that the dervative chip (dare we say PPC 975?) could be ready and in fact in use in the low end server?
What else do we know for sure? We've seen new pics from Apple's Service department on a new G5 model, along with evidence of the same in the innards of OS X plists.
My opinion:
I find it highly unlikely that IBM would publish an article on their website which compares their processor offerings with the competition that inaccurately represents them. I also find it very likely that Apple has requested that IBM not publicize the POWER5 derivative. Hence no reference anywhere except a reprint of a Taiwanese IT magazine article. This has happened multiple times in Apple's history.
I think that the PPC 97X is nearly ready if not already done. I think that the new cooling box might be beefy enought to handle dual-core dual-chips for a 4 processor system.
Well, that's what I know and think. Any other concrete (set up or otherwise) evidence?
This thread will give you a run down on the speculation in regards to this chip.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...threadid=41165
Originally posted by Rhumgod
Yes, and MacOSRumors has been down since then! I thought maybe they forgot to pay the bills, but alas it is still registered to the same person. Ryan better get on the ball too since the domain expires next month.
If you use this address, you can still find them.
http://199.105.116.92/
Originally posted by BlueKnight
We know IBM is advertising new servers based on POWER 5 "technology".
http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/iseries/announce/
They never say what exact model of processor is used on the low end systems.
The exact processor is POWER5; the "technology" part is just marketing-speak.
If the AppleInsider pics are authentic, I'm afraid we know that the next generation G5 will be just that... a Power4-based G5 (i.e., 970fx). If it were Power5-based 975/980, then I suspect Apple would use G6 (i.e., next generation) as the moniker. As painful as it feels, I'm afraid we're not going to get the Power5 architecture just yet.
However, I'd be delighted to proven wrong at the end of this month (or sooner :-).
Originally posted by occam
If the AppleInsider pics are authentic, I'm afraid we know that the next generation G5 will be just that... a Power4-based G5 (i.e., 970fx). If it were Power5-based 975/980, then I suspect Apple would use G6 (i.e., next generation) as the moniker.
The POWER4 and POWER5 is quite similar in design and construction and 970 and the upposed POWER5 derivate would be quite similar too. Not nearly different enough to constiute a name change. Look at the evolution of the G3 and G4, they differ quite a bit from first to last incarnation, yet the name was the same.
And if the POWER5 derivate is to be called 975 then it's pretty clear that the processors are of the same generation.
IBM have said that the big change in architecture will come in the POWER6 so I guess that Apple will change to G6 then. And.. coincidently have parity in numbering scheme. It's just logical.
I don't see how the leaked service manual implies which architecture that'll be fit inside it. Can you explain me this?
Originally posted by occam
If the AppleInsider pics are authentic, I'm afraid we know that the next generation G5 will be just that... a Power4-based G5 (i.e., 970fx). If it were Power5-based 975/980, then I suspect Apple would use G6 (i.e., next generation) as the moniker. As painful as it feels, I'm afraid we're not going to get the Power5 architecture just yet.
.
What makes you say 970fx?
One possible implication of the single large heatsink is that there is just one chip under it. One with dual cores maybe... That could count as "Dual Processor". Could also be an MCM with two distinct chips on it - as they do in the server line.
I should have connected the dots in my post. The posted service manual pic has a large heat sink with a very prominent "G5" on it. So, we're getting another G5. If the 975/980 warrants a new G6 moniker and the service manual machine is still a G5 (albeit with a larger heatsink), then the G5 moniker indicates the Power4-based 970fx (rather than any Power5-based 975/980 (or whatever IBM calls it)).
Frankly, I very much hope that this machine is the Power5-based upgrade and starts at 3.0 though. That will roughly double the speed of the current PowerMac dual 2.0.
Here are my calculations:
Now/Before:
2 x 2.0 GHz = 4.0 GHz
Future/After:
2 x 3.0 GHz = 6.0 GHz
+SMT(20-40%boost: e.g., 33%): + 33% = 2.0 GHz
6.0 GHz + 2.0 GHz = 8.0 GHz
After:8.0 GHz >>(doubles) Before:4.0 GHz
So, iff IBM/Apple reach 3.0GHz on this iteration
and (both SMT is worth an app. 30% speedup, and also
benchmarking under multi-threaded conditions favorable to SMT),
we could see the new machines coming in at roughly *DOUBLE* the speed
of the current ones.
That and Apple's usual PowerMac latest state-of-the-art upgrades would make for an absolutely delightful family of G5's.
Cheers.
Originally posted by occam
If the AppleInsider pics are authentic, I'm afraid we know that the next generation G5 will be just that... a Power4-based G5 (i.e., 970fx). If it were Power5-based 975/980, then I suspect Apple would use G6 (i.e., next generation) as the moniker. As painful as it feels, I'm afraid we're not going to get the Power5 architecture just yet.
However, I'd be delighted to proven wrong at the end of this month (or sooner :-).
The next PowerPC will not be called G6.
Originally posted by Programmer
The next PowerPC will not be called G6.
Thank you for setting him straight
If they follow this logic, Apple can say that the PPC 975 is a G6. Note also, that in this case, they should give an other name than PPC 975, because 975 vs 970 is just a small evolution.
When Intel released his firt, hyperthreaded X86 chip, they called it, a P4HT. They did not choose to call it a P5. Strange if we keep in mind that there where so few difference between a P2 and a P3.
It's perhaps that they where not that confident in their Hyperthreaded technology. They even did not use P5 for the prescott. This naming scheme is only marketing.
Apple will choose any appelation they want. in this matter marketing rule.
I'm sorry, I don't agree with the assertion that the advantages of the 975/980 etc., even if derived from the Power 5, warrants the G6 moniker. I don't think the processor will be different from the 970(fx) as the Power 5 is different from the Power 4. The next PowerPC processor will probably get the improvements they did to the cores, but the great Power 5 is much more than just a new core. ;-)
I suspect the difference between the proposed 975 and the 970 is about as large as the difference between the 7400 and 7450 was (enhanced execution resources, but the same basic functionality), and that didn't make Apple change the moniker.
Originally posted by occam
Now/Before:
2 x 2.0 GHz = 4.0 GHz
Future/After:
2 x 3.0 GHz = 6.0 GHz
+SMT(20-40%boost: e.g., 33%): + 33% = 2.0 GHz
6.0 GHz + 2.0 GHz = 8.0 GHz
After:8.0 GHz >>(doubles) Before:4.0 GHz
[/B]
gotta take aim at your math here:
2Ghz x 1.8 = 3.6Ghz (usually at least a 20% efficiency hit on the second proc. We're being generous here)
after:
(3ghz x 1.3 SMT) x 1.6 = 6.3Ghz (1.6 multiple because you are dealing with a 4 CPU scenario(sort of), again generous.)
Still great performance, albeit not twice as fast. While still an absurd generalization, I think that's a better representation of what performance would be.