I'd say depending on how much faster these actually are in performance tests once some independent testing is done on them. (because Apple is full of sh*t when they do tests)
I'd say graphics cards. This is hardly an update. It's been 12 months. What? I expect a lot of hardware refinements, and imprØvements in a f*****g year. They waited a year to give us this? f*** them. All right so I'm f****ng pi$$ed. Aren't you? A year! I just can't believe I waited another year!
I'm dismayed that 3Ghz is not coming according to Apple.
However I have to disagree with the no improvement.
I never though liquid cooling would be a viable option yet it's coming. If it works like It should it's great news for the future of the platform. Heat destroys thingss..Apple is smart to take heed to thermal issues now before they get out of hand.
I only regret that the graphics cards are poort. However there is hope there.
People act as if this HW was just created. Hell we've been on alert since March 27 that new Powermacs could be coming at anytime. This means the hardware was done then and Apple was waiting for the chips from IBM.
Apple will likely rollout their second generation PPC hardware next year. These are capable computers until then.
I'm dismayed that 3Ghz is not coming according to Apple.
However I have to disagree with the no improvement.
I never though liquid cooling would be a viable option yet it's coming. If it works like It should it's great news for the future of the platform. Heat destroys thingss..Apple is smart to take heed to thermal issues now before they get out of hand...
...Apple will likely rollout their second generation PPC hardware next year. These are capable computers until then.
I don't see liquid cooling as an improvement. it's not something that makes me more productive. It's done out of necessity.
The sad thing is, Apple apparently did not even plan to do anything but drop in new processors in anyway. Accroding to Tom Boger, Apple's Director of Power Mac Product Marketing, they didn't even know until two weeks ago that 3Ghz would be impossible before the "promise" deadline. So for the past year Apple just sat around and waited for these processors without giving any thought to improving other aspects of the system. This pisses me off to no end. After a year of waiting, we got one new model and two essentially current models dropped down a notch in the lineup. This reminds me of the Amelio era mentality. Do as little as possible to get by. I hate to say it but there are PC graphics workstations that will kick the crap out of these. Considering this has always been a core market for Apple this is pretty damn bad. If we have to wait until January for another update Apple should probably reorganize as a solely consumer product oriented company. Hopefully they will realize the once a year update cycle is not a good idea. There is nothing wrong with smaller updates that improve upon things other than processor speed alone.
As I said, it is simply a necessity, not a feature. It simply cools a processor that very likely is pushing the design to the limit. It's not a reason to upgrade. You don't find too many people upgrading because an inner chasis of a computer case is made of zinc instead of magnesium. If it had faster ram, hard drives or graphics, that would be an improvement.
As I said, it is simply a necessity, not a feature. It simply cools a processor that very likely is pushing the design to the limit. It's not a reason to upgrade. You don't find too many people upgrading because an inner chasis of a computer case is made of zinc instead of magnesium. If it had faster ram, hard drives or graphics, that would be an improvement.
Yes and all those items can be upgraded quite easily.
I don't think people realize the ramifications of what IBM, AMD and Intel are facing moving 90nm. No one thought Prescott was going to generate as much heat as it did. IBM is probably suprised about the thermal issues of the 970. It's a learning process. I'm just glad that Apple has been proactive in taking measures to ameliorate the sitation.
Most of us aren't engineers. We demand things of Apple that are quite difficult. Too many fans...Too loud= unhappy customers.
Great deals are available.
Previous setup
Dual 2Ghz
Cinema 23"
= $5000
Today = $4000
Apple does take care of their customers they just don't whore their product.
People talk like the liquid cooling is some big deal.
Its not.
It appears to be a straight forward heatpipe.
Not only id the previous G5s have a heatpipe for the voltage regulators, it is standard fair for laptops, and powerbooks have been using them for years.
Even PCs are using heatpipes in their cooling systems now. The SFFs from Shuttle have been using them for years, and the new BTX form Intel smoked up pretty much demands heatpipes, and heatsink vendors are supplying them.
The terminology on Apple's site is ambiguous, and untill it is clearly resolved the whole liquid cooling thing is nothing spectacular. They sure as hell havent got a water cooling system in there with a pump and outboard heat exchange.
2. apple could care less about aggressive pricing.
alright, so they missed the MHz mark and perhaps this was meant originally as a speed bump and to not have many more features added until the next rev..... but when they realized they were going to miss that mark and that this update would fall way back several months and at the time of release be considered a joke by many......why not aggressively price them at least.
If the dual 2Ghz was 1999 i doubt there would be as many bickering. had ibm gotten to 3Ghz thats what the low end would have been anyways.....why when problems happen does apple take it as an excuse to give us less for more.
All the whining immediately following any new product announcment.
Amen.
There was a day when a 500Mhz speed bump would have been met with some pleasure... alas, no longer. And as has already mentioned, it's not like the other guys are moving faster. By the end of the year, Intel plans to be at 4 Ghz ? which will represent a 600 Mhz jump year-on-year, or a 17% increase ? and at the target bus speed of 1.1Ghz, their machines will still have a slower bus. AMD aren't exactly advancing by leaps and bounds either, even if they do have something of a performance head-start.
I also find it pretty ahistorical that people are surprised by Apple (1) not sticking in the top-of-the-line cards in the standard configurations, and (2) not putting in pro cards like the FireGL etc. You don't need to have followed Apple for very long to realise that they just don't do this. If you want that extra power, you can damn well pay for it (and I agree). As for the latter, some people seem to need to be reminded that lack of vendor support is not exactly Apple's fault (well, except for the effects of ADC on it).
As for the rest of the system, I don't see any fundamental problems. PCI-Express will be nice at some point, but given that the graphics cards supporting it have only just been announced, and haven't even shipped yet, I think it's completely understandable that Apple hasn't jumped on board. In fact, I'm pretty happy that the line-up is back to all-dual, where it should have been to start with. They could probably do with making space for four drives... but the proportion of the market which really needs this is pretty small.
And on the subject of prices, I think Apple's economic model has been adequately thrashed out around here already. Their margins are high ? but they have to spend a lot of money on R&D to stop themselves from sinking. The profit reports are healthy, but not ridiculously fat like some monopolies we could mention.
I'm feeling grumpy tonight.
I didn't vote, because there was no option for "not an overwhelming update, but not crap either"
On a side note, where have all the IBM lovers from this forum gone? They seem to have evaporated as quickly as they appeared.
(Then again, what did I expect to see when I clicked on the thread... \ )
Jimzip
Quote:
Originally posted by dfiler
What ticks me off most?
All the whining immediately following any new product announcment.
Well now, you guys don't have to read these threads now do you? Yes, let's all be Apple apologists rather than Apple fans. Jobs and Apple can do no wrong after all. Let us all applaud him for releasing one new Powermac after a whole year. Let us thank him for not making any other improvements after a whole year. Let us praise him for crippling the low end model instead of just dropping the mid-level model down a notch and leaving it as is. Do not complain or else they may be forced to innovate and be competitive. We wouldn't want that now would we? Let's just leave things be and watch the PowerMac line become more and more insignificant. Don't rock the boat.
On a side note, where have all the IBM lovers from this forum gone? They seem to have evaporated as quickly as they appeared.
Yeah, people need some prozac. I don't understand the swing from unabashed love for IBM to vitriolic hatred and saying they are worse than Moto was.
Do people not realize Moto went something along the lines of 18 months stuck at the same processor speed, and that was WITHOUT moving to a new process?
Comments
Well, and that it's still the size of a dishwasher, but I've given up on that one.
I didn't vote because the issues are equal.
Originally posted by onlooker
BOTH!
I didn't vote because the issues are equal.
Ok, I quote myself, because I changed my mind.
I'd say depending on how much faster these actually are in performance tests once some independent testing is done on them. (because Apple is full of sh*t when they do tests)
I'd say graphics cards. This is hardly an update. It's been 12 months. What? I expect a lot of hardware refinements, and imprØvements in a f*****g year. They waited a year to give us this? f*** them. All right so I'm f****ng pi$$ed. Aren't you? A year! I just can't believe I waited another year!
I'm dismayed that 3Ghz is not coming according to Apple.
However I have to disagree with the no improvement.
I never though liquid cooling would be a viable option yet it's coming. If it works like It should it's great news for the future of the platform. Heat destroys thingss..Apple is smart to take heed to thermal issues now before they get out of hand.
I only regret that the graphics cards are poort. However there is hope there.
People act as if this HW was just created. Hell we've been on alert since March 27 that new Powermacs could be coming at anytime. This means the hardware was done then and Apple was waiting for the chips from IBM.
Apple will likely rollout their second generation PPC hardware next year. These are capable computers until then.
The only thing I would've wanted is this update five months ago.
Originally posted by hmurchison
I didn't vote.
I'm dismayed that 3Ghz is not coming according to Apple.
However I have to disagree with the no improvement.
I never though liquid cooling would be a viable option yet it's coming. If it works like It should it's great news for the future of the platform. Heat destroys thingss..Apple is smart to take heed to thermal issues now before they get out of hand...
...Apple will likely rollout their second generation PPC hardware next year. These are capable computers until then.
I don't see liquid cooling as an improvement. it's not something that makes me more productive. It's done out of necessity.
I don't see liquid cooling as an improvement. it's not something that makes me more productive. It's done out of necessity.
So you don't place a value on stability?
Originally posted by hmurchison
So you don't place a value on stability?
As I said, it is simply a necessity, not a feature. It simply cools a processor that very likely is pushing the design to the limit. It's not a reason to upgrade. You don't find too many people upgrading because an inner chasis of a computer case is made of zinc instead of magnesium. If it had faster ram, hard drives or graphics, that would be an improvement.
Originally posted by TWinbrook46636
As I said, it is simply a necessity, not a feature. It simply cools a processor that very likely is pushing the design to the limit. It's not a reason to upgrade. You don't find too many people upgrading because an inner chasis of a computer case is made of zinc instead of magnesium. If it had faster ram, hard drives or graphics, that would be an improvement.
Yes and all those items can be upgraded quite easily.
I don't think people realize the ramifications of what IBM, AMD and Intel are facing moving 90nm. No one thought Prescott was going to generate as much heat as it did. IBM is probably suprised about the thermal issues of the 970. It's a learning process. I'm just glad that Apple has been proactive in taking measures to ameliorate the sitation.
Most of us aren't engineers. We demand things of Apple that are quite difficult. Too many fans...Too loud= unhappy customers.
Great deals are available.
Previous setup
Dual 2Ghz
Cinema 23"
= $5000
Today = $4000
Apple does take care of their customers they just don't whore their product.
Its not.
It appears to be a straight forward heatpipe.
Not only id the previous G5s have a heatpipe for the voltage regulators, it is standard fair for laptops, and powerbooks have been using them for years.
Even PCs are using heatpipes in their cooling systems now. The SFFs from Shuttle have been using them for years, and the new BTX form Intel smoked up pretty much demands heatpipes, and heatsink vendors are supplying them.
The terminology on Apple's site is ambiguous, and untill it is clearly resolved the whole liquid cooling thing is nothing spectacular. They sure as hell havent got a water cooling system in there with a pump and outboard heat exchange.
Stop whining!
(Then again, what did I expect to see when I clicked on the thread...
Jimzip
either
1. the G5 really isnt cheap at all
2. apple could care less about aggressive pricing.
alright, so they missed the MHz mark and perhaps this was meant originally as a speed bump and to not have many more features added until the next rev..... but when they realized they were going to miss that mark and that this update would fall way back several months and at the time of release be considered a joke by many......why not aggressively price them at least.
If the dual 2Ghz was 1999 i doubt there would be as many bickering. had ibm gotten to 3Ghz thats what the low end would have been anyways.....why when problems happen does apple take it as an excuse to give us less for more.
All the whining immediately following any new product announcment.
Originally posted by dfiler
What ticks me off most?
All the whining immediately following any new product announcment.
Amen.
There was a day when a 500Mhz speed bump would have been met with some pleasure... alas, no longer. And as has already mentioned, it's not like the other guys are moving faster. By the end of the year, Intel plans to be at 4 Ghz ? which will represent a 600 Mhz jump year-on-year, or a 17% increase ? and at the target bus speed of 1.1Ghz, their machines will still have a slower bus. AMD aren't exactly advancing by leaps and bounds either, even if they do have something of a performance head-start.
I also find it pretty ahistorical that people are surprised by Apple (1) not sticking in the top-of-the-line cards in the standard configurations, and (2) not putting in pro cards like the FireGL etc. You don't need to have followed Apple for very long to realise that they just don't do this. If you want that extra power, you can damn well pay for it (and I agree). As for the latter, some people seem to need to be reminded that lack of vendor support is not exactly Apple's fault (well, except for the effects of ADC on it).
As for the rest of the system, I don't see any fundamental problems. PCI-Express will be nice at some point, but given that the graphics cards supporting it have only just been announced, and haven't even shipped yet, I think it's completely understandable that Apple hasn't jumped on board. In fact, I'm pretty happy that the line-up is back to all-dual, where it should have been to start with. They could probably do with making space for four drives... but the proportion of the market which really needs this is pretty small.
And on the subject of prices, I think Apple's economic model has been adequately thrashed out around here already. Their margins are high ? but they have to spend a lot of money on R&D to stop themselves from sinking. The profit reports are healthy, but not ridiculously fat like some monopolies we could mention.
I'm feeling grumpy tonight.
I didn't vote, because there was no option for "not an overwhelming update, but not crap either"
On a side note, where have all the IBM lovers from this forum gone? They seem to have evaporated as quickly as they appeared.
Originally posted by Jimzip
Oh my god, it's worse here than at Spymac..
Stop whining!
(Then again, what did I expect to see when I clicked on the thread...
Jimzip
Originally posted by dfiler
What ticks me off most?
All the whining immediately following any new product announcment.
Well now, you guys don't have to read these threads now do you? Yes, let's all be Apple apologists rather than Apple fans. Jobs and Apple can do no wrong after all. Let us all applaud him for releasing one new Powermac after a whole year. Let us thank him for not making any other improvements after a whole year. Let us praise him for crippling the low end model instead of just dropping the mid-level model down a notch and leaving it as is. Do not complain or else they may be forced to innovate and be competitive. We wouldn't want that now would we? Let's just leave things be and watch the PowerMac line become more and more insignificant. Don't rock the boat.
Originally posted by staphbaby
On a side note, where have all the IBM lovers from this forum gone? They seem to have evaporated as quickly as they appeared.
Yeah, people need some prozac. I don't understand the swing from unabashed love for IBM to vitriolic hatred and saying they are worse than Moto was.
Do people not realize Moto went something along the lines of 18 months stuck at the same processor speed, and that was WITHOUT moving to a new process?