Religion: Why the US hates the EU
Today, in Europe we will see the results of EU elections. This is interesting to me because at work, I am the only person advocating the UK joining the EU (not that I have always held this view), however, my immediate boss is a Creationist, and recently we have hired his 'cousin' who is also a creationist, and his brother regularly visits us during lunch breaks, and offcourse you can guess his religious leaning. This is great because I now have 3 creationist test subjects, while I subscribe to the Church of Satan's teachings. (Find out what they're about before you pass judgment). Things at work have not always been harmonious, but as the good 'Fellowship' has taught me, bigotry and intolerance is not clever.
So, we are all disgussing the EU vote, and it transpires that my 3 friends absolutely detest membership of the EU, and have voted for UKIP (UK Independance Party). However, I could clearly see that 2 of them didn't actually choose UKIP by their own judgement, but clearly were asking another how they should vote, in which references were made to other parties that I have no knowledge of, but I can deduce that the choise has clearly come from somewhere in the church they attend.
It also transpires that their idea of worldly paradise is to live in Southern America, and for the UK to be America's next state.
This all passed in good humour, and told them I was off to find my 2x4. A good few years at AO have blessed me with a quite detailed knowledge of the Creationist movement, and fundamentalist integration into the US admin, so while I'm pretty sure they do not suspect I know the reasoning behind they're thinking, I have a good idea. But as always, a bit more research is in order. Why do my friends advocate thier position, I made an assumption that it was based on their religion, so this is where I conducted some research.
So a couple of nights of 6hour stints on the web. I have read more in the last two night than in the entire year. I present for discussion an article that, pretty much sums up the general gist of what I've found.
http://www.raptureready.com/featured/reagan/dr43.html
Is the American fundamentalist church, reaching over into Europe to influence the formation of the EU?
Do Americans think that the EU is the reformation of the Roman Empire from which the AntiChrist will Arrive?
So, we are all disgussing the EU vote, and it transpires that my 3 friends absolutely detest membership of the EU, and have voted for UKIP (UK Independance Party). However, I could clearly see that 2 of them didn't actually choose UKIP by their own judgement, but clearly were asking another how they should vote, in which references were made to other parties that I have no knowledge of, but I can deduce that the choise has clearly come from somewhere in the church they attend.
It also transpires that their idea of worldly paradise is to live in Southern America, and for the UK to be America's next state.
This all passed in good humour, and told them I was off to find my 2x4. A good few years at AO have blessed me with a quite detailed knowledge of the Creationist movement, and fundamentalist integration into the US admin, so while I'm pretty sure they do not suspect I know the reasoning behind they're thinking, I have a good idea. But as always, a bit more research is in order. Why do my friends advocate thier position, I made an assumption that it was based on their religion, so this is where I conducted some research.
So a couple of nights of 6hour stints on the web. I have read more in the last two night than in the entire year. I present for discussion an article that, pretty much sums up the general gist of what I've found.
http://www.raptureready.com/featured/reagan/dr43.html
Is the American fundamentalist church, reaching over into Europe to influence the formation of the EU?
Do Americans think that the EU is the reformation of the Roman Empire from which the AntiChrist will Arrive?
Comments
Do Americans think that the EU is the reformation of the Roman Empire from which the AntiChrist will Arrive?
Fundamentalist Christians in America, for the most part, probably don't know what the EU is. They dislike the godlessness of Europe, but anything more specific than that (like naming more than 3 European nations) is probably lost on them. Not just fundamentalists, most Americans in general, but especially the Southern variety.
I'd bet money since the new bogeymen are brown that fundamentalists of many areas think the AC will come from the middle east.
The US is far more devout religiously than any Western European nation, so it is logical that a religiously devout person in Europe might view the US with some rose-colored glasses since there are lots of people who share their views.
Internet is great, but sometimes it's act like a magnification lens, it give too much importance at isolated opinions.
Originally posted by Powerdoc
I don't know what Raptuready is , but it's absolute BS. I don't know how many people share the opinion of this web page, but let expect, it's the lowest possible.
Internet is great, but sometimes it's act like a magnification lens, it give too much importance at isolated opinions.
exactly, But, during my efforts, I've come across many many articles like this, it is not isolated opinion. In Hindsight, I would have bookmarked them so I could present them here, but I didn't know I was going to try to discuss it here at the time. I will however look through my history to see what else I've got stored.
The funniest site I remember is that for $20, you could have an automated email sent out on the friday after rapture to all your relatives who had not been raptured, to explain their state of confusion as to where all the people had gone!
However, remember the US is a hotbed of fundamental conservative Christianity, and % wise 4x the number of Americans attend church than in EU, so there is a chance that millions of Americans actually subscribe to this line of thought, and I have seen polls that appear to prove it.
A good site I remember is www.religioustolerance.org It appears to try to give an unbiasedd view of all world religions. Will look for specific links on that site first.
I'm not quite sure why anyone would want to worship Satan, but beyond that, the East coast and West coast are pretty secular. There's perhaps a degree of religious fervor in the "heartland," though I've never spent much time there and can't say much about that. Anyway, a lot of the coastal folks, particularly the Northeasterners, probably have a similar, generic world-view to most folks in continental Europe. From the same vein, most of the northeastern Christians I know of aren't creationists (at least in the typical sense), and although most of us are aware of the very mild social persecution, it's not a big deal.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
Church of Satan, eh?
I'm not quite sure why anyone would want to worship Satan
Proof beyond doubt that you do not know what this religion is. Anyhow, I am not a member, I just agree 99% with the philophacy.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanis1.htm
quote:
Religious Satanism is a valid religion, generally followed by adults. It is essentially unrelated to teen Satanic dabbling and to various other beliefs and practices that have been described as Satanism.
The largest of the many traditions within Religious Satanism is the Church of Satan (CoS), which many people believe was founded on Walpurgisnacht, 1966-APR-30, (I Anno Satanas) by Anton Szandor LaVey (1930-1997). It was actually founded later that year.
The beliefs, practices and rituals of the Church of Satan have few, if any, points of similarity with the Christian concept of Satan. The CoS' concept of Satan is pre-Christian, and derived from the Pagan image of power, virility, sexuality and sensuality. Satan is viewed as a force of nature, not a living quasi-deity. Their Satan has nothing to do with Hell, demons, pitchforks, sadistic torture, demonic possession, and profound evil. Its followers have occasionally engaged in a Black Mass for publicity purposes, in which the Roman Catholic Mass is ridiculed. But, otherwise, their rituals have no connection to those of Christianity.
Originally posted by MarcUK
Is the American fundamentalist church, reaching over into Europe to influence the formation of the EU?
It seems like that's what you're saying; I wasn't aware of it. It wouldn't surprise me though. Every crummy aspect of our culture seems to get shipped overseas, whether it's Baywatch or fast food or, apparently, evangelical Christianity. I just wish that when we ship it over, it would leave us completely rather than stick around.
Do Americans think that the EU is the reformation of the Roman Empire from which the AntiChrist will Arrive?
Without a doubt. We think you're Satan worshippers too. Are we wrong?
http://www.lamblion.com/prophecy/revelation/RV-12.php
http://www.lamblion.com/prophecy/revelation/RV-11.php
http://www.bible-prophecy.com/roman.htm
http://www.fellowshiponline.org/bibl...s/antichri.htm
at the bottom of a long article
http://www.omegaletter.com/articles.asp?ArticleID=3082
http://www.shalomjerusalem.com/bible/bible17.htm
http://www.prophecyupdate.com/the_an...superstate.htm
http://www.contenderministries.org/p...omanempire.php
I won't bore you with any more, I think I made the point.
Since you've decided to make fun of fundamentalist Christian belief as ridiculous, I find it odd that you act as if the "Church of Satan" actually means anything. It doesn't, it was created by an attention-starved starfucker who decided to lie about his life to make it sound like it was meaningful so he could pass off his warmed-over philosophy. Fine if you agree, but putting such simple ideas under a title (especially one as childish and fatuous as "Church of Satan") is every bit as silly as claiming the EU will produce the Anti-Christ.
Originally posted by groverat
Anton LaVey, yet another American product (quite literally) that foreigners apparently like.
Since you've decided to make fun of fundamentalist Christian belief as ridiculous, I find it odd that you act as if the "Church of Satan" actually means anything. It doesn't, it was created by an attention-starved starfucker who decided to lie about his life to make it sound like it was meaningful so he could pass off his warmed-over philosophy. Fine if you agree, but putting such simple ideas under a title (especially one as childish and fatuous as "Church of Satan") is every bit as silly as claiming the EU will produce the Anti-Christ.
Agree entirely. Thats the point. Im not under any illusion.
But I was not actually trying to make fun at Fundies*. There is a very serious movement by these types concerning a very important issue, and wether it is being exported into the churches of the UK and EU.
I actually think they are making a very good case for their point, they have obviously spent millions of man-hours coming to these conclusions, and they are very believable, so I think Its worth discussing.
*The only poke I can see I've wrote is about the $20 site, which I doubt anyone would disagree if rather humourous regardless of viewpoint.
Originally posted by the cool gut
I know a creationist who doesn't want UK to joing the EU, because that would be a step closer towards a world with "one government" which sets the stage for the end of the world, as it's predicted by the Bible.
This is what I really dont understand. Surely they would pray for the prophecy's to come true. Unless, for all their conviction and arrogance, they really aren't actually 100% committed to the fact that they have been saved, because they do actually doubt their saviour.
Originally posted by segovius
They subconsciously know they believe in a doctrine which has perverted the true teaching of Christ so in that sense they are right.
I don't quite understand you, are you saying that most of todays Christians are (subconsciously) actually worshipping the false-idols they have been warned about? so will not actually consciously further the prophecy of the bible.
I was thinking about making another thread about this with some of the evidence I gathered over the last few days.
Originally posted by MarcUK
This is what I really dont understand. Surely they would pray for the prophecy's to come true. Unless, for all their conviction and arrogance, they really aren't actually 100% committed to the fact that they have been saved, because they do actually doubt their saviour.
It's called cognitive dissonance, and it's the glue that keeps faith alive. Or some other such mixed metaphor.
Other than that, I doubt the American fundamentalist Christians are worrying too much about the EU. They've got plenty of things in their own backyard that they clearly take umbrage at. Certainly there may be some small percentage which adds up to a noticeable and vocal presense, after all even if one one hudredth of one percent of the US population believes as much that still adds up to 30,000 people, but even most of the Christians in the US just are not very engaged with issues relating to the EU. The EU is pretty much just a European issue and the only other people who worry much about it are those of us who like to argue on the internet. And based on the turnout for some EU elections it seems that even Europeans really don't care much about it either.
Originally posted by ColanderOfDeath
I hate the EU cause they waste too much money translating shit that they should be spending on other shit.
ITS BABEL ALL OVER AGAIN. AUUUUEEEEEHHHHH. RUN FOR YOUR LIFES BEFORE THE WRATH OF GOD HITS US.
More serious. If you want to complain about EU spending please have a look at the subsidies given to farmers, destroying the marked for local farmers in 3rd world countries.
Originally posted by Anders
What all this comparison to Hitler miss is that DNSP was nothing more than Hitler as organisation while EU is the democratic member states organised voluntarily
I do not understand DNSP, but for the context of the prophecies, it doesn't matter if the EU (Roman Empire) came together under Hitler, democracy or a million tons of Bostick, it is the prophecy that states that the Roman Empire will be revived, and produce a great leader, who will come to power by offering (false) Peace, but will be subdued by Satan and become the AntiChrist. And then all kinds of nasties happen. The Bible also prophicized about the rebirth of Israel and didn't that happen like 50 years ago.
I Dont know about you, but I have a really hard time believing any religious scripture. But there seems like there's something in this worth investigating.
Originally posted by MarcUK
I do not understand DNSP, but for the context of the prophecies, it doesn't matter if the EU (Roman Empire) came together under Hitler, democracy or a million tons of Bostick, it is the prophecy that states that the Roman Empire will be voluntarily revived, and produce a great leader, who will come to power by offering (false) Peace, but will be subdued by Satan and become the AntiChrist. And then all kinds of nasties happen. The Bible also prophicized about the rebirth of Israel and didn't that happen like 50 years ago.
Perhaps the two events was mixed up by God. Perhaps he meant that Israel would be reborn and THEN all kinds of nasties happens.
Kidding aside. Yes its a theological argument but if they really believe that EU is the nest for the anti-christ will they really sit down and pray and wait for Jesus? In all of times and across all religions people have tried to do the work of their religious mythical figures even when their holy texts say that the figures can handle themselves, thank you very much?
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin...cgi?read=35726
and what they actually built (scroll half way)
http://www.pointsoftruth.com/
and something truely unbelievable
http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?ArtKey=666