Displaying Colors Accurately

brian j.

We're in a jam at work. Please help.



We need to display RGB color accurately on an LCD computer monitor. The LCD monitor will be connected to a PC. What is the best monitor/calibration tool combination? From my understanding, Apple monitors are really good. Also, are their any really good touch screen LCD monitors that can display colors accurately.



Thanks in advance.

neutrino23

Wow. That is a lot to bite off in one chunk.



LCDs in general have a smaller displayed color space than CRTs which are still not perfect.



Try to find a review from MacWorld magazine. It came out less than three years ago. It was a fairly technical review comparing Apple's Cinema Display to some high end CRTs.



It will make a huge difference which LCD you purchase. Apple LCD monitors are near the top if not the best available.



I am not familiar with touch screens. I have heard of third parties which will add touch screen capability to any monitor.



It will make a huge difference which application you use to display the image if you do this on windows.



Apple has a technology called ColorSync. This establishes a color profile for every device used to acquire, display or print an image. You can use default profiles or tune your own custom profiles for each device. There are books published about using ColorSync. You can find some information on Apple's website.



I can't comment intelligently as to which CRT calibration tool is best.

valis

To answer your question quickly, No, you cannot accurately / predictibly display colors on an LCD screen. I have tried, I was using an Apple 17" LCD and 22" both were not able to be calibrated. And this was not just trying one software/hardware combination. My school has a Color Science lab, where I was doing the work, and we have most of the widely used, and best Spectrophotometers (hardware that does monitor, and printer calibrations) on the market ($5000 and up). The 22" was especially bad, Color difference, known as Delta E in the industry, is a calculated formula based on the Xxy color model, I have the forumla somwhere but it doesnt matter, software does it for you, well anyway the 22" display while trying to display the same color on different parts of the screen at the same time, had a delta E of 12. To put this in perspective, Delta E of 2 is what we call "just noticeable difference" your eye can detect that there are two different colors right next to each other, space them out, and no you cant tell. But a delta E of 12 is almost the difference between what one would describe as Red, and Orange. Granted the 17" was better, but not much, It still could not correct itself through a color sync profile to display a close proximity of what it should have been.

But I guess it depends on what you mean by accurate, a realative word. A touch screen sounds like Kiosk or something, Okay I know that most clothing cataloge returns are because the printed color didnt not match wat the people were expecting, and I'd imagine it's gotten worse in the age of Online shopping, but, your never going to beable to match a refelctive color with a back lite one.

so Go CRT if you (more) accurate colors, make sure you watch your ambient color temperature also, which can effect color perception also.

- val1s



If you want more detailed suggestions you have to tell me what you need it for first.

brian j.

Thanks for the useful information guys.



I can't go into too much detail because of NDAs, but we're developing the software for a department store kiosk. The kiosk allows the user to scan in a color, which we then display on screen. It is critical that the kiosk displays these scanned colors accurately. The kiosk will preferably have a touch screen monitor, but we're willing to sacrifice touch screen capability for the sake of color.



I found some kits that will turn a regular LCD display into a touch screen, but they are unattractive. I also found a company that is selling touch enhanced Apple Cinema displays.

ilyons

Brian,



[quote] The LCD monitor will be connected to a PC.<hr></blockquote>



Using the LCD on a PC will limit your calibration options to hardware rather than pure software based solutions.



[quote]What is the best monitor/calibration tool combination? <hr></blockquote>



It depends upon how much money you want to spend. The cheapest combination that will do both CRT and LCD is the ColorVision Spyder with PhotoCAL. Next would be the Spyder with OptiCAL see <a href="http://www.colorvision.com"; target="_blank">http://www.colorvision.com</a>;



A more expensive/accurate solution which uses a spectrophotometer is the GretagMacbeth Eye-One - you can buy it as monitor only or with flexibility to upgrade to monitor and printer calibration. see <a href="http://www.i1color.com"; target="_blank">http://www.i1color.com</a>;



More details on each can also be found at <a href="http://www.computer-darkroom.com/photocal/photocal_1.htm"; target="_blank">http://www.computer-darkroom.com/photocal/photocal_1.htm</a>; and <a href="http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ione/ione-1.htm"; target="_blank">http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ione/ione-1.htm</a>; respectively.





[quote]From my understanding, Apple monitors are really good. Also, are their any really good touch screen LCD monitors that can display colors accurately. <hr></blockquote>



I know nothing about the touchscreen units but I have used and own various Apple LCD's. With respect to colour accuracy and evenness of illumination the 17-inch is better than the 22-inch and the 23-inch is way ahead of both. The Macworld review referred to above was June 2001 and used the original DVI based version of the Cinema display. The ADC version seems to be better than the DVI version but still not as good as the 17-inch or 23-inch. You can read my thoughts on the 23-inch here: <a href="http://www.computer-darkroom.com/acd/acd.htm"; target="_blank">http://www.computer-darkroom.com/acd/acd.htm</a>;



You might also like to look at the Formac units: <a href="http://www.formac.com"; target="_blank">http://www.formac.com</a>;



Ian

brian j.

I hink we're going to try the Apple 17" Studio display and see how well it works. What do we need to hook that up to a PC? And do they sell what we need at CompUSA? We need the stuff fast... Thanks.

jesperas

<a href="http://www.formac.com/p_bin/?cid=solutions_displays_gallery1740"; target="_blank">Formac Gallery 1740</a>



<a href="http://www.formac.com/p_bin/?cid=solutions_displays_calibrator"; target="_blank">Gallery 1740 cal</a>

murbot

Purchasing advice goes in General Discussion... buckle up kids, here we <a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=003201"; target="_blank">go</a>!



[ 11-25-2002: Message edited by: murbot ]</p>