Tivo would be the ideal purchase if Apple doesn't want to roll their own. Now that Cable Cards are here Apple has all but the red carpet rollout to get into the Set Top Box DVR device. They should make that move soon.
We should see.
1. DVR based on Quicktime 7 using AVC codecs.
this is going to allow Apple to really bundle in some nice multimedia elements. Excellent audio handling, multiple codec support etc.
2. AAC Protected playback.
A no brainer. Why it's taken this long is an amazement. An assault on eager and waiting fans of digital music should be imminent.
3. Airport and "Bonjour" support.
Easy networking is a must. Eventually I want to see 11n and maybe even Homeplug AV support. TV connections should be HDMI so that protected HDTV content can be displayed.
And maybe future Cell based product.
The Cell chip seems to be a natural for multimedia. Apple doesn't need to have OSX running on Cell but rather making QT a portable framework that runs very well on Cell. This would be the key to crunching AVC and dealing with audio and other codecs appropriately.
Plus Tivos run Linux on a PowerPC so this should be familiar territory for Apple. Double plus the massive Apple R&D should make quick turnaround for new Tivo products.
Plus Tivos run Linus on a PowerPC so this should be familiar territory for Apple. Double plus the massive Apple R&D should make quick turnaround for new Tivo products.
I never thought of that. They would probably update that OS to a darwinian version of some sort.
I had a "Replay" (which I thought was better than Tivo because of the network ethernet card, and bigger hard drives. - you could trade shows), but using it with my cable system back in the early days was a pain, and I ended up with too many remotes, and half of the features would never work with my cable company. Tivo back then would have been the same. It may still be. I took it back.
On the other hand Tivo is getting hammered financially as cable providers come up with their own recorders for their large captive audience. Does it make sense for Apple to take on this drain?
I never thought of that. They would probably update that OS to a darwinian version of some sort.
I had a "Replay" (which I thought was better than Tivo because of the network ethernet card, and bigger hard drives. - you could trade shows), but using it with my cable system back in the early days was a pain, and I ended up with too many remotes, and half of the features would never work with my cable company. Tivo back then would have been the same. It may still be. I took it back.
I have three Tivos and while in many ways they are wonderful they all have one major shortcoming:
TiVo Inc. shares jumped more than 17 percent on Wednesday, fueled by speculation that Apple might make a try to buy the digital video recorder maker, Reuters is reporting. "What we hear on the street is that Apple is interested in their business and that they are a takeout target," said analyst Steven Kroll Jr. of Monness, Crespi, Hardt & Co. "TiVo's chief executive, Michael Ramsay, has said the company is not for sale. But with a market capitalization of only $300 million, analysts figure the company might be an easy target, perhaps from consumer electronics makers to media companies looking to bolster their video services."
On the other hand Tivo is getting hammered financially as cable providers come up with their own recorders for their large captive audience. Does it make sense for Apple to take on this drain?
It wouldn't be a drain for Apple. Tivo's would eventually become yet another product available at 100+ Apple stores across the globe. Apple could bring the guide data into their own network. They could also reduce the price of the monthly fee by half and not break a sweat.
Cable Cards for those that don't know allow you to receive PREMIUM content like HBO/Showtime/etc "without" the need for a cablebox from your Cable Provider. The catch? You don't have on demand services...big whoop.
Thus the "all inclusive" device could handle your music, video files and access your cable service with one remote. It's a bonanza in the waiting for the company that can do it right and affordably. Consumers are sooo ready to get rid of the proliferating remotes that seem to procreate like jackrabbits.
I'm sure Apple has something like this coming. It makes too much sense. The pieces are coming together.
Security-
HDMI supports the FCC mandated copy prohibit flags and MPAA approved encryption. It supports full bandwidth HDTV video and fullbandwidth Audio. Check.
Processing power-
Cell processing is just what we need. Something that is a bit more Multimedia oriented than the general CPU with SIMD. Cell if it can become cheap to fab, will form the backbone of the Multimedia STB.
Software Framework-
Quicktime or linux. We need something flexible and very portable to power the device. Kormac has repeatedly refrenced Quicktime becoming an OS for multimedia devices. QT7 has to be morphing more into a seperate ecosystem that is becoming unbundled from the OS and able to thrive on its own.
Networking-
Rendezvous technology, better wireless technology coming, Homeplug AV and good ole Ethernet will form the tentacles that will weave this device easily into your home network. Consumer right now think of portability as burning a CD and taking it over to the CD player. They haven't yet made the connection that like the passing of sneakernet...eventually it'll make more sense to simply route or stream or send the datafile to the device you want playback on. Beats waiting for an optical drive to burn a disc that you will have to "sneaker" on over.
It is perfect for Apple to slap TiVo into a Mac mini, and they add the QuickTime Movie Store... it is a conspiracy!
Also, it is a prefect chance for Apple to have TiVo service free is bundled with a .Mac account! And a kick ass codec.... and then Apple will capture the PVR market like it did with the iPod
It is perfect for Apple to slap TiVo into a Mac mini, and they add the QuickTime Movie Store... it is a conspiracy!
Also, it is a prefect chance for Apple to have TiVo service free is bundled with a .Mac account! And a kick ass codec.... and then Apple will capture the PVR market like it did with the iPod
it is so simple!
And all for a mere $4 per share! Chump change I tell ya! Chump change!
I think the Mac mini needs to stay a Mac. The new Apple'ized Tivo needs to be a multimedia workhorse.
I really like the idea of future version using Cell. Cell is made for this type of stuff. Quicktime 7 is such a large architectural improvements with a new easier API to write for I can only hope that it's ready to power small devices like a DVR.
If Apple can leverage the 3 million subscribers. If Apple can keep the Strangeberry talent that Tivo aquired. If Apple can make a hot product that leverages AVC and AAC and other Apple promoted tech. They would blast off into the stratosphere in consumer electronics.
I want a Tivo bad but I have a feeling that things are going to change rapidly in the next 2 years. An Apple-Tivo makes more sense than an Apple iPhone right now.
The reason TiVo is dying is because it can't interface with cable boxes in any meaningful way, and because it charges a monthly fee for tv guide--something you can now get for free online. Even the totally antiquated miglia software will have an integrated TV guide soon.
Cox digital cable (not even HD, mind you) is spectacularly annoying to use with a TiVo, unless it's a cox TiVo and has the "digital" tuner built in.
All the cable companies are doing this so they can kill off the 3rd party competition, and then program their boxes (most of which can be done remotely) to automatically delete shows more than 1 week old. Some companies are already doing this.
TV technology is so crappy and proprietary right now it's not even funny. All the big cable providers are taking a dump on HD programming. Cox here in the 6th largest city in the US has something like 10 channels, 5 of them premium and 4 of them local, and nothing else.
They don't want their shows stolen or distributed, and they have the power to stop all those who stand in their way.
The FCC has mandated that all Cable Ops have to support CableCARDS which are available today. CableCARDS allow you to access "Premium" contect without the need for a cable box from your provider. The catch?
The current CableCARD is only one way meaning you can't do some nifty things like On Demand and other guide functions. However {trumpets sounding} CableCARD 2.0 coming out soon will support 2-way communication allowing things like full Guide Data, PPV and multiple simultaneous streams. Say goodby to Comcast if Apple can add in more than just basic DVR functions and a very low monthly cost.
The reason TiVo is dying is because it can't interface with cable boxes in any meaningful way, and because it charges a monthly fee for tv guide--something you can now get for free online. Even the totally antiquated miglia software will have an integrated TV guide soon.
Cox digital cable (not even HD, mind you) is spectacularly annoying to use with a TiVo, unless it's a cox TiVo and has the "digital" tuner built in.
All the cable companies are doing this so they can kill off the 3rd party competition, and then program their boxes (most of which can be done remotely) to automatically delete shows more than 1 week old. Some companies are already doing this.
Tivos and the cable DVRs can also be programmed to FORCE you to watch certain commercials. Advertisers would pay more to the cable company to force you to view their ad. The box would then not let you fast forward over the ad (DVDs sometimes won't let you skip certain things like th FBI warning). I think Murdock did something like this in the UK for a while on the satellite service. No one has implemented this on a large scale so it remains to be seen if customers would put up with it.
Would Apple do this?
We have no troubles with our Time Warner service and the Tivos, but we don't have a cable box.
Apple doesn't have to do this because unlike Tivo they wouldn't need to kowtow to advertisers to make their money. In fact the Copy Prohibit flags that HDTV broadcasts will have are being scrutinized by Federal Judges who think that the FCC may not have the power to require companies to support these flags. Vewy vewy intewesting.
All Apple needs to do is utilize their DVR to push AVC and iTunes Music Store. This in turn helps them sell more Final Cut Pro seats and other Pro apps. Apple is sitting pretty here and right now Steve Jobs can do no wrong. I'm awaiting Apple's Masterstroke here.
It is perfect for Apple to slap TiVo into a Mac mini, and they add the QuickTime Movie Store... it is a conspiracy!
Also, it is a prefect chance for Apple to have TiVo service free is bundled with a .Mac account! And a kick ass codec.... and then Apple will capture the PVR market like it did with the iPod
it is so simple!
What about the installed base? do you drop 'em like a brick? do you push a whole new os as an update? do you sell/distribute an updated OS on USB mass storeage devices that the tivo can boot from?
And how would apple handle shareing of recorded programs without massive DRM while at the same time not totally pissing off the movie+TV companies? A TiVo is one thing, but a TiVo+pc+wifi+lan+broadband+an open standard codec(h.264)? that will not fly - but if any one can pull it off, it is Steve Jobs
What about the installed base? do you drop 'em like a brick? do you push a whole new os as an update? do you sell/distribute an updated OS on USB mass storeage devices that the tivo can boot from?
And how would apple handle shareing of recorded programs without massive DRM while at the same time not totally pissing off the movie+TV companies? A TiVo is one thing, but a TiVo+pc+wifi+lan+broadband+an open standard codec(h.264)? that will not fly - but if any one can pull it off, it is Steve Jobs
That's the whole problem with this rumor. Tivo as it is now would die a quick death, just like what Apple does with all the other stuff they buy. They'll also dump some of the current features that make Tivo good, pissing off some of the users as well.
I have absolutely no idea why people think an Apple Tivo would somehow be better then Tivo. Tivo is easy to use, good interface, and an overall good box. How does Apple make it better? Just by slapping a logo on it? You "Apple makes god machines" people need to get a grasp on reality.
people are forgetting an important cog in all this... the netflix partnership. apple could tie up quite a bit of loyal subscribers, media content and the path between points a and b in one fell swoop, BUT...
the cable companies have made dvr's total fiefdoms, and tivo suffers fromt he fact that their box will never work quite right with a cable company's box unless they beg and plead with said company. apple wants to work the whole widget. the ipod, at first, was an interesting project which saw what people were doing with their digital content, but it became a million times more interesting with the itunes music store, and gave them a convenient way to add to, NOT REPLACE, their existing content.
if steve sees a way to repeat that exact same process, he'll jump. otherwise, no...
Comments
Pleaze spl check title of post before submitting.
No, Apple will not buy Tivo. Why when they can make their own device?
Originally posted by Yevgeny
Why when they can make their own device?
Because Tivo has 3 Million subscribers just aching to get rid of that $12.95 monthly fee
Tivo would be the ideal purchase if Apple doesn't want to roll their own. Now that Cable Cards are here Apple has all but the red carpet rollout to get into the Set Top Box DVR device. They should make that move soon.
We should see.
1. DVR based on Quicktime 7 using AVC codecs.
this is going to allow Apple to really bundle in some nice multimedia elements. Excellent audio handling, multiple codec support etc.
2. AAC Protected playback.
A no brainer. Why it's taken this long is an amazement. An assault on eager and waiting fans of digital music should be imminent.
3. Airport and "Bonjour" support.
Easy networking is a must. Eventually I want to see 11n and maybe even Homeplug AV support. TV connections should be HDMI so that protected HDTV content can be displayed.
And maybe future Cell based product.
The Cell chip seems to be a natural for multimedia. Apple doesn't need to have OSX running on Cell but rather making QT a portable framework that runs very well on Cell. This would be the key to crunching AVC and dealing with audio and other codecs appropriately.
Originally posted by WelshDog
Plus Tivos run Linus on a PowerPC so this should be familiar territory for Apple. Double plus the massive Apple R&D should make quick turnaround for new Tivo products.
I never thought of that. They would probably update that OS to a darwinian version of some sort.
I had a "Replay" (which I thought was better than Tivo because of the network ethernet card, and bigger hard drives. - you could trade shows), but using it with my cable system back in the early days was a pain, and I ended up with too many remotes, and half of the features would never work with my cable company. Tivo back then would have been the same. It may still be. I took it back.
Originally posted by onlooker
I never thought of that. They would probably update that OS to a darwinian version of some sort.
I had a "Replay" (which I thought was better than Tivo because of the network ethernet card, and bigger hard drives. - you could trade shows), but using it with my cable system back in the early days was a pain, and I ended up with too many remotes, and half of the features would never work with my cable company. Tivo back then would have been the same. It may still be. I took it back.
I have three Tivos and while in many ways they are wonderful they all have one major shortcoming:
They are not made by Apple.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
Originally posted by OldCodger73
On the other hand Tivo is getting hammered financially as cable providers come up with their own recorders for their large captive audience. Does it make sense for Apple to take on this drain?
It wouldn't be a drain for Apple. Tivo's would eventually become yet another product available at 100+ Apple stores across the globe. Apple could bring the guide data into their own network. They could also reduce the price of the monthly fee by half and not break a sweat.
Cable Cards for those that don't know allow you to receive PREMIUM content like HBO/Showtime/etc "without" the need for a cablebox from your Cable Provider. The catch? You don't have on demand services...big whoop.
Thus the "all inclusive" device could handle your music, video files and access your cable service with one remote. It's a bonanza in the waiting for the company that can do it right and affordably. Consumers are sooo ready to get rid of the proliferating remotes that seem to procreate like jackrabbits.
I'm sure Apple has something like this coming. It makes too much sense. The pieces are coming together.
Security-
HDMI supports the FCC mandated copy prohibit flags and MPAA approved encryption. It supports full bandwidth HDTV video and fullbandwidth Audio. Check.
Processing power-
Cell processing is just what we need. Something that is a bit more Multimedia oriented than the general CPU with SIMD. Cell if it can become cheap to fab, will form the backbone of the Multimedia STB.
Software Framework-
Quicktime or linux. We need something flexible and very portable to power the device. Kormac has repeatedly refrenced Quicktime becoming an OS for multimedia devices. QT7 has to be morphing more into a seperate ecosystem that is becoming unbundled from the OS and able to thrive on its own.
Networking-
Rendezvous technology, better wireless technology coming, Homeplug AV and good ole Ethernet will form the tentacles that will weave this device easily into your home network. Consumer right now think of portability as burning a CD and taking it over to the CD player. They haven't yet made the connection that like the passing of sneakernet...eventually it'll make more sense to simply route or stream or send the datafile to the device you want playback on. Beats waiting for an optical drive to burn a disc that you will have to "sneaker" on over.
It is perfect for Apple to slap TiVo into a Mac mini, and they add the QuickTime Movie Store... it is a conspiracy!
Also, it is a prefect chance for Apple to have TiVo service free is bundled with a .Mac account! And a kick ass codec.... and then Apple will capture the PVR market like it did with the iPod
it is so simple!
Originally posted by Nebagakid
people people....
It is perfect for Apple to slap TiVo into a Mac mini, and they add the QuickTime Movie Store... it is a conspiracy!
Also, it is a prefect chance for Apple to have TiVo service free is bundled with a .Mac account! And a kick ass codec.... and then Apple will capture the PVR market like it did with the iPod
it is so simple!
And all for a mere $4 per share! Chump change I tell ya! Chump change!
I really like the idea of future version using Cell. Cell is made for this type of stuff. Quicktime 7 is such a large architectural improvements with a new easier API to write for I can only hope that it's ready to power small devices like a DVR.
If Apple can leverage the 3 million subscribers. If Apple can keep the Strangeberry talent that Tivo aquired. If Apple can make a hot product that leverages AVC and AAC and other Apple promoted tech. They would blast off into the stratosphere in consumer electronics.
I want a Tivo bad but I have a feeling that things are going to change rapidly in the next 2 years. An Apple-Tivo makes more sense than an Apple iPhone right now.
The reason TiVo is dying is because it can't interface with cable boxes in any meaningful way, and because it charges a monthly fee for tv guide--something you can now get for free online. Even the totally antiquated miglia software will have an integrated TV guide soon.
Cox digital cable (not even HD, mind you) is spectacularly annoying to use with a TiVo, unless it's a cox TiVo and has the "digital" tuner built in.
All the cable companies are doing this so they can kill off the 3rd party competition, and then program their boxes (most of which can be done remotely) to automatically delete shows more than 1 week old. Some companies are already doing this.
TV technology is so crappy and proprietary right now it's not even funny. All the big cable providers are taking a dump on HD programming. Cox here in the 6th largest city in the US has something like 10 channels, 5 of them premium and 4 of them local, and nothing else.
They don't want their shows stolen or distributed, and they have the power to stop all those who stand in their way.
A digital TV-ready (or even co-ax arial broadcast for we backward Brits) iMac/TV/Recorder has me drooling already.
Jack
[(All the usual gear: but never quite enough)
You're forgetting one thing though.
The FCC has mandated that all Cable Ops have to support CableCARDS which are available today. CableCARDS allow you to access "Premium" contect without the need for a cable box from your provider. The catch?
The current CableCARD is only one way meaning you can't do some nifty things like On Demand and other guide functions. However {trumpets sounding} CableCARD 2.0 coming out soon will support 2-way communication allowing things like full Guide Data, PPV and multiple simultaneous streams. Say goodby to Comcast if Apple can add in more than just basic DVR functions and a very low monthly cost.
Originally posted by slughead
Not gonna work.
The reason TiVo is dying is because it can't interface with cable boxes in any meaningful way, and because it charges a monthly fee for tv guide--something you can now get for free online. Even the totally antiquated miglia software will have an integrated TV guide soon.
Cox digital cable (not even HD, mind you) is spectacularly annoying to use with a TiVo, unless it's a cox TiVo and has the "digital" tuner built in.
All the cable companies are doing this so they can kill off the 3rd party competition, and then program their boxes (most of which can be done remotely) to automatically delete shows more than 1 week old. Some companies are already doing this.
Tivos and the cable DVRs can also be programmed to FORCE you to watch certain commercials. Advertisers would pay more to the cable company to force you to view their ad. The box would then not let you fast forward over the ad (DVDs sometimes won't let you skip certain things like th FBI warning). I think Murdock did something like this in the UK for a while on the satellite service. No one has implemented this on a large scale so it remains to be seen if customers would put up with it.
Would Apple do this?
We have no troubles with our Time Warner service and the Tivos, but we don't have a cable box.
Would Apple do this?
Apple doesn't have to do this because unlike Tivo they wouldn't need to kowtow to advertisers to make their money. In fact the Copy Prohibit flags that HDTV broadcasts will have are being scrutinized by Federal Judges who think that the FCC may not have the power to require companies to support these flags. Vewy vewy intewesting.
All Apple needs to do is utilize their DVR to push AVC and iTunes Music Store. This in turn helps them sell more Final Cut Pro seats and other Pro apps. Apple is sitting pretty here and right now Steve Jobs can do no wrong. I'm awaiting Apple's Masterstroke here.
Originally posted by Nebagakid
people people....
It is perfect for Apple to slap TiVo into a Mac mini, and they add the QuickTime Movie Store... it is a conspiracy!
Also, it is a prefect chance for Apple to have TiVo service free is bundled with a .Mac account! And a kick ass codec.... and then Apple will capture the PVR market like it did with the iPod
it is so simple!
What about the installed base? do you drop 'em like a brick? do you push a whole new os as an update? do you sell/distribute an updated OS on USB mass storeage devices that the tivo can boot from?
And how would apple handle shareing of recorded programs without massive DRM while at the same time not totally pissing off the movie+TV companies? A TiVo is one thing, but a TiVo+pc+wifi+lan+broadband+an open standard codec(h.264)? that will not fly - but if any one can pull it off, it is Steve Jobs
Originally posted by a_greer
What about the installed base? do you drop 'em like a brick? do you push a whole new os as an update? do you sell/distribute an updated OS on USB mass storeage devices that the tivo can boot from?
And how would apple handle shareing of recorded programs without massive DRM while at the same time not totally pissing off the movie+TV companies? A TiVo is one thing, but a TiVo+pc+wifi+lan+broadband+an open standard codec(h.264)? that will not fly - but if any one can pull it off, it is Steve Jobs
That's the whole problem with this rumor. Tivo as it is now would die a quick death, just like what Apple does with all the other stuff they buy. They'll also dump some of the current features that make Tivo good, pissing off some of the users as well.
I have absolutely no idea why people think an Apple Tivo would somehow be better then Tivo. Tivo is easy to use, good interface, and an overall good box. How does Apple make it better? Just by slapping a logo on it? You "Apple makes god machines" people need to get a grasp on reality.
the cable companies have made dvr's total fiefdoms, and tivo suffers fromt he fact that their box will never work quite right with a cable company's box unless they beg and plead with said company. apple wants to work the whole widget. the ipod, at first, was an interesting project which saw what people were doing with their digital content, but it became a million times more interesting with the itunes music store, and gave them a convenient way to add to, NOT REPLACE, their existing content.
if steve sees a way to repeat that exact same process, he'll jump. otherwise, no...