Should Apple outsource ProMac workstation?
Apple is not particularly experienced in creating a workstation level PC comparatively vs. the more venerable BOXX, Alienware, and a few others that are pointless to mention.
Nevertheless as old as Apple is, Apple probably has more $$$ than both these two companies put together.
Looking at what is offered in the workstation class (pro class) from Apple, PC makers Alienware, and BOXX, are far more formidable in Video, Audio, and 3D, and CAD (DCC)
Do you think Apple should outsource, or license the Mac-Intel model to a more formidable workstation manufacturer for their Pro workstation, or will Apples pro machine come in behind the likes of Alienware, and BOXX?
Nevertheless as old as Apple is, Apple probably has more $$$ than both these two companies put together.
Looking at what is offered in the workstation class (pro class) from Apple, PC makers Alienware, and BOXX, are far more formidable in Video, Audio, and 3D, and CAD (DCC)
Do you think Apple should outsource, or license the Mac-Intel model to a more formidable workstation manufacturer for their Pro workstation, or will Apples pro machine come in behind the likes of Alienware, and BOXX?
Comments
I didn't vote because all the choices sucked. Apple can deliver a Workstation level at anytime without anyone elses help. The only limitation is one of price and marketability.
Hell "I" could easily build a box better than BOXX and Alienware. You're only a Tyan mobo and bunch of ancillary equipment away.
DCC, 3D, CAD etc are functions that rely on a fast Video card. Neither BOXX nor Alienware have any special IP that isn't available elsewhere.
Oh and as an Audio guy you need to strip that list. There is not a computer available that has a decent Audio interface on the motherboard. Don't give that Intel Azalia 8.1 channel crap. Listen to a real Audio I/O and you'll quickly hear what you've been missing.
1. It would be glycol cooled. The refrigeration box would sit on the floor with the power supply and transformer in the same box. Tubes would run up to the Mac with red "PLASMA" ( the glycol ) in them, it would also have red sparkles so you can see it pump. It would pump like a heart beat and there would be a background heart beat sound on the MACchine that could be turned up to be heard on demand.
Although there is new chip tech that gives cryonic cooling cheaply which I would use as soon a possible if it were available.
There would be customizable plastics and effects, brain in a beaker, maybe a computer approved fog generator to make the box totally wild.
The box would definitely include a user programable personal laser light show which could display iTune effects on the walls.
2. It would have at least 4 cores, probably 4 to 8 or 12, and since Mac OS X is the best for MP this would make it an outstanding MACchine. I would put together a team of top programmers that would initially write software to verify the best hardware designs and prove out or dispute the claim of manufactures thus ensuring that in the end we have the fastest most optimized box for the money. If MP did not work well with games they would find out why and see if it can be fixed !
3. It would have a striped RAID drive with a HUGE, at least 2 G, Flash RAM buffer.
4. For the video cards I would just look at what's available from ALL sources and copy and surpass the best.
5. The remaining specs, amount of RAM and other things would be determined by testing and just optimizing the platform.
6. Of course it would be sold and come bundled with the fastest WiMax connection Intel has, which would be the most cost effective way to get a very high speed connection.
7. But if I were running the gaming devision I would expand greatly the meaning of computer gaming into activities that are more adult and mainstream. Exercise is one area that could be improved tremendously by computers and software but has not yet been expanded on.
I would also build simulation chairs that would include electrical muscle stimulation so that the user would have tactile feedback from the game. The chairs might also have inflammables to create certain effects.
Computer controlled and game augmented lightweight vehicles might also become part of computer gaming soon.
This would lead onto mobile cubicles, you know cubes at work, people have a desk in the shape of a cube.
Well, what if those cubes could move around ? If they were mobile and had a roof, if the seat were robotic and very nice with desk and robotic file storage all around and then could run around like a scooter. Then you might not need offices, but you would need auditoriums and parks to meet in. It would be all electric of course.
Navigation would have to be automated and it would not function unless a WiMax network were not available to augment navigation.
Cars would not be needed any more, they would be parked at the outskirts of cities, many buildings would become obsolete. Open space would become more important.
Translucent high-rises, pyramid shaped, with gardens inside might become the standard.
I agree that right now, dollar for dollar, Intel based systems are a bit ahead. But not as much as Onlooker seems to think.
Originally posted by vinney57
This is bullcrap. Alienware and Boxx must be shitting themselves. Why buy one of their ugly hacks when you will soon be able to buy a superbly engineered Macintel at similar speed and similar price? Do you honestly think that Apple's engineering expertise is not the equal of any of these 'fabricators'?
But the question was essentially will they build, or will we be able to configure a workstation that is as competitive, and as complete as what either of them are offering?
Originally posted by wmf
The HP xw9300 sure looks nice, and I hear it's made by Tyan.
We've got several at work and they rock but they are OPTERON'S!! So not very useful to compare with intelMac's. But lets face it, Apples will not make any serious inroads into CAD until they can get real QuadroFX and FireGL cards into powermacs. (Note I did not say Pro Audio or Video, where I think you will find Apple already rules dues to the power of their software).
I wonder if we might finally see Pro graphics cards in a Mac....
My point is this and I'll make this succinct.
What does Alienware or the Boxx do in their workstations that isn't available in ANY other computer.
I think you'll find that answer to be nothing. They use the same commodity intel chipset and motherboard that I can buy and build my own.
However, and don't take this personal, in Onlookers world somehow Apple "cannot" or "does not" contain the expertise to develop their own solutions.
We all know this is false. While Apple has outsourced production of their hardware they still design a fair amount and in the 90s Apple's hardware team developed numerous different motherboards. They finally wised up and went to UMA for efficiency. Why develop a bunch of different boards when you can make one all purpose and add or subtract features. That's what Intel does...allows manufacturers to pick on choose certain features.
Fear not Onlooker...we now know why haven't seen a PCI-Express Mac. Apple might not even add a PPC PCI-Express Mac until they have their Intel stuff in order.
Honestly I'd like to see some more tech that is unique to a platorm but with Apple moving to Intel we're going to see commodity stuff everywhere. Also keep in mind that the current G5 case is built to remain cool but Apple will likely be able to shrink the case because Intel's future chips will consume less power. I think a return back to El Capitan size would work.
Alienware and the BOXX will have to worry because Apple has the ability to go after their markets as well. As the poster above said.
Originally posted by onlooker
The reason I had mentioned Audio, and Video is because Alienware, and BOXX sites both used to have specific base configurations for all the above in their workstation categories. Alienware looks like they are remodeling their site, or have lost their battle with BOXX in the workstation place, but BOXX still has 4 different base workstations although it appears they have removed the Audio one. LINK TO BOXX PAGE
I'm sorry I still don't get it. What's so special about these machines?
Intel proc's and boards... er yeah
On board SATA ports, giga ethernet, big fuck-off Nvidia or ATi based graphics cards... what's the big deal?
The only thing I can guarantee Apple won't be offering is a parallel or serial port (or a fricken' floppy disc!)
Originally posted by onlooker
But the question was essentially will they build, or will we be able to configure a workstation that is as competitive, and as complete as what either of them are offering?
Apple is already using the fastest dual-procesers and video cards they can get there hands on for their current workstations, why would that change when they switch to Intel? Those PC companies that you mention just use normal off the shelf parts that anyone else can use. They are nice PCs for people who don't want to build their own, but there is nothing special about them. Except for a few proprietary parts, Apple will use the same high-end hardware as BOXX and Alienware. And if you are really talking pro, Apple can bring 5.6 terabyte RAIDs (with hot swappable disks, cooling, and power supplies) to the table.
The one item that Apple has not had in the past, NVIDIA Quadro FX and ATI FireGL video cards, will hopefully be addressed with the switch over to Intel (since the hardware is all the same, it shouldn't be too hard for the companies to make the drivers for osX).
Originally posted by Res
Apple is already using the fastest dual-procesers and video cards they can get there hands on for their current workstations, why would that change when they switch to Intel? Those PC companies that you mention just use normal off the shelf parts that anyone else can use. They are nice PCs for people who don't want to build their own, but there is nothing special about them. Except for a few proprietary parts, Apple will use the same high-end hardware as BOXX and Alienware. And if you are really talking pro, Apple can bring 5.6 terabyte RAIDs (with hot swappable disks, cooling, and power supplies) to the table.
The one item that Apple has not had in the past, NVIDIA Quadro FX and ATI FireGL video cards, will hopefully be addressed with the switch over to Intel (since the hardware is all the same, it shouldn't be too hard for the companies to make the drivers for osX).
With these cooler processors which would give us sufficient room in the case do you think Apple will go all the way, and offer things like dual internal RAID, hot swappable drive chassis, and possibly SLI graphics? What about stuff like 5.1, and/or 7.1 sound native right on the motherboard?
Originally posted by onlooker
With these cooler processors which would give us sufficient room in the case do you think Apple will go all the way, and offer things like dual internal RAID, hot swappable drive chassis, and possibly SLI graphics? What about stuff like 5.1, and/or 7.1 sound native right on the motherboard?
Onlooker I was thinking the same. Looks like Intel will be bringing more efficient processing to the desktop thus Apple hopefully takes advantage and adds more bays. I'd love to see and expect to see at least 3 bays preferrably 4. One optical bay (I just don't think Apple sees the value in dual opticals) and SLI using PCI-Express. Now that we're on Intel hardware I expect to see HDMI outputs on the computer in 2-3 years which will easily handle 24/96 8 channel audio.
We're almost there.
Not really a fair comparison. Quad Cores againts Dual Procs. But it's fun to see what Dual Dual-Core setups will be able to do.
Edit: After reading the review I'm kicking myself because recently I had begun to give Charlie White a little respect but he's now back on the "this guy's an asshole" list.
I'll know avoid Digital Producer from now on. My time is a bit too precious to waste on someone that can't get the basics of a comparison down. This post smacks of "web hit hunting" I expect it to make the rounds with Wintel fans gloating about a 4 core computer beating out the lowly Powermac DP by 30 percent Wow...I'm so bummed I couldn't give BOXX another 1000 dollars of my money.
Originally posted by hmurchison
http://www.digitalproducer.com/artic...e.jsp?id=32951
Not really a fair comparison. Quad Cores againts Dual Procs. But it's fun to see what Dual Dual-Core setups will be able to do.
Edit: After reading the review I'm kicking myself because recently I had begun to give Charlie White a little respect but he's now back on the "this guy's an asshole" list.
I'll know avoid Digital Producer from now on. My time is a bit too precious to waste on someone that can't get the basics of a comparison down. This post smacks of "web hit hunting" I expect it to make the rounds with Wintel fans gloating about a 4 core computer beating out the lowly Powermac DP by 30 percent Wow...I'm so bummed I couldn't give BOXX another 1000 dollars of my money.
hmurchison, boy are you right. That guy is an ass 'n 'a half. And then some!
It isn't even fair to make it, let alone presume there are Mac users that would believe that a dual 2.7 could outperform "dual" - "dual core" x86 processor of any kind, let alone an Opeteron. It's like benching the old quad opteron motherboard against a dual G5. There is no need to bench it against the Mac. There may be a need to bench that machine against the regular dual Opteron, and the Dual core intels coming out, but this is just plain Mac bashing.
Nevertheless what I would like to see is this guy do all those tests under winXP, and do them all again under OSX for intel on the same machine. That would be interesting.