Mini beats PB or PM for upgrade
LOL, looks like the mini is going to beat both these other models for a new update:
http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0509macmini.html
Kudos to macrumors (page 2) for breaking the original rumor.
Thank god, I won't have to wait for Christmas to buy my new mini now. Here's hoping the video card gets upgraded too (no mention of it, but how I'm sure it would be cheaper for them if they did since they already have to buy in bulk for the ibook).
Maybe we'll see that mini test drive return now.
http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0509macmini.html
Kudos to macrumors (page 2) for breaking the original rumor.
Thank god, I won't have to wait for Christmas to buy my new mini now. Here's hoping the video card gets upgraded too (no mention of it, but how I'm sure it would be cheaper for them if they did since they already have to buy in bulk for the ibook).
Maybe we'll see that mini test drive return now.
Comments
Originally posted by moofa
Here's hoping the video card gets upgraded too (no mention of it, but how I'm sure it would be cheaper for them if they did since they already have to buy in bulk for the ibook).
It would be beyond ridiculous if they left again this so much better than "integrated Intel graphics" Radeon 9200 in there.
Originally posted by 1984
Looks like the new Mac mini has the same Radeon 9200 but with 64MB of memory instead of 32MB. So it will work better with higher resolutions but still won't be Core Image compatible.
it is core image compatible, it just won't/can't have quartz_2D_extreme part of it done in hardware.
i don't mean to sound like a dick, but after all the GPU excitement, i just went and set up an amd64-venice-nvidia6600gt rig (which i know some people on Ai are sick of me yelling about it) so now i can play half-life2, boast about my 3dmark05 score of 4100, and let the mac be a machine for the serious stuff... getting shite done, despite the 32mb vram 9200 ati mobility iBook 933mhz, which i might have written off long ago had i not actually had no money and be forced to use the iBook (my dad's)
Originally posted by moofa
LOL, looks like the mini is going to beat both these other models for a new update:
http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0509macmini.html
Kudos to macrumors (page 2) for breaking the original rumor.
Thank god, I won't have to wait for Christmas to buy my new mini now. Here's hoping the video card gets upgraded too (no mention of it, but how I'm sure it would be cheaper for them if they did since they already have to buy in bulk for the ibook).
Maybe we'll see that mini test drive return now.
good stuff moofa, i just saw it and you beat me to the punch to get it up on ai. i'm sure kasper will merge this thread when appleInsider staff wake up this morning
edit: i don't think IMHO that the mini test drive will return, apple wanted to do it to book sales in the july-to-september quarter (because the 30day period and refunds would be processed on the balance sheet in the oct-dec quarter).
i think they've seen some intense demand for mac mini so, well, yay! anyway, it WOULD be nice for an ati 9550 but as someone on some openGL forum pointed out, even an ati 9800 is so last year already.
Originally posted by sunilraman
it is core image compatible, it just won't/can't have quartz_2D_extreme part of it done in hardware.
I think you are a little confused here. The fundamental requirement for Core Image AND Quartz 2D Extreme support is GPU programmability. Something that the Radeon 9200 lacks. We have this functionality in the current Apple machines only from the Radeon 9550 (iBook) and above.
Unless you mean that there is this Altivec fall back in place for the G4 machines.
This update sounds great. Get the processor a little faster, get the hard drive faster, and get more VRAM, for the same prices. With the exception of not having core image, this is like the 12-inch Powerbook, for $1000 less (plus no screen).
Originally posted by PB
....Unless you mean that there is this Altivec fall back in place for the G4 machines.
okay, this is what i meant. the mac minis are core image compatible without having a core-image compatible GPU. that is, core image is done in CPU if you do not have a core-image compatible GPU.
edit: referencing your post, to clarify, this means that mac minis are (core image compatible) but not (core image AND quartz-2D-extreme) compatible. but mac minis are (core image AND quartz-extreme) compatible.
I'll put forward my understanding of CoreImage first:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/coreimage/
"For computers without a programmable GPU, Core Image dynamically optimizes for the CPU, automatically tuning for Velocity Engine and multiple processors as appropriate."
core image applies to both GPUs and CPUs, as indicated by this text:
"Core Image is powered by floating-point calculations, which produce extremely fine color accuracy on a pixel-by-pixel basis. You see great detail, quality and range of color that automatically scales with new generations of GPUs and CPUs."
so core image will be super duper if you have those nice GPUs but if you have a 9200 it doesn't mean no core image for you.....
"When a programmable GPU is present, Core Image utilizes the graphics card for image processing operations, freeing the CPU for other tasks. And if you have a high-performance card with increased video memory (VRAM), you'll find real-time responsiveness across a wide variety of operations.
Core Image-capable graphics cards include:
* ATI Mobility Radeon 9700
* ATI Radeon 9550, 9650, 9600, 9600 XT, 9800 XT, X800 XT
* nVidia GeForce FX Go 5200
* nVidia GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
* nVidia GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL, 6800 GT DDL"
so this with regards to core image, core image is about image processing.
Now let's look at Quartz Extreme, Quartz 2D, Quartz 2D extreme...
"quartz extreme" is about image compositing
but runs along similar lines (as in better GPU=good but crap GPU does not mean no quartz extreme, just no quartz 2d extreme):
http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10.4.ars/14
the part labelled "quartz 2d" is actually where "quartz 2d extreme" can be force-enabled for GPUs that support it...
"Unfortunately, even Quartz 2D isn't entirely accelerated under Quartz 2D Extreme. In cases where the current crop of video cards cannot perform a particular drawing operation, or cannot do so with a quality that matches the software implementation, those operations continue to run in software mode in Tiger. Thankfully, these operations are uncommon (complex stroked paths, lines with mitered joints and end-caps, etc.) As video cards improve, I imagine even these operations will be supported eventually."
...well, that's what i'm putting on the table, it is confusing and i'm sure maybe some others can help clarify the situation. the fun part now is to look at if you get a mini whether you can afford to have CoreImage done primarily in CPU.
Quartz-2D-extreme is currently a grey area AFAIK because it is defaulted to 'off' as of 10.4.0 - 10.4.2. force-enabling it has resulted in some artifacts for some people
Originally posted by Guartho
Sorry to go a little off topic here, but I recently inherited a Rad 9650 that's now powering my QS 867. If I upgrade from Panther to Tiger, will I notice any performance increase due to Core Image?
Core Image is not about raw performance in general tasks. Core Image is a simple API allowing direct GPU access, in order to execute special graphics operations. The potential there is huge and it is up to developers to exploit it and provide applications that take advantage of it.
For example, if you look in the Apple link that sunilraman provided above, you will see that this API can perform several operations found in Photoshop. It is a matter of time to see a "Photoshop lite" from a small developer that runs Photoshop filters in the GPU, thus in real time. As of now, those filters run only in the CPU and their execution can take much time.
Originally posted by Res
My sister just bought an Apple Mini with superdrive and 1 Geg of Ram off the Apple website site last night, what should she do now?
I think she can cancel the order and wait one or two weeks to see what comes from Apple.
Originally posted by Res
My sister just bought an Apple Mini with superdrive and 1 Geg of Ram off the Apple website site last night, what should she do now?
Sign up for the local buyer's remorse support group!
Originally posted by ibook911
Does core image actually do anything, for the user? I think it is more hype than anything. Yes, it has some fantastic potential, but I don't think its doing much for us, now.
This update sounds great. Get the processor a little faster, get the hard drive faster, and get more VRAM, for the same prices. With the exception of not having core image, this is like the 12-inch Powerbook, for $1000 less (plus no screen).
Exactly. Apple gets a lot of grief (and some of it well deserved) for the timing and composition of hardware upgrades, but the fact remains that they are a business. With the low margins they are generating on the minis (I see from the latest AI posting they make 44% gross margins vs. 50% on the new nano), they have to squeeze as much performance as they can for the lowest cost. Sure they could technically plop in a G5 or a 9550 (or for that matter even a 9600), but I doubt they'd be able to and maintain those margins. Are they greedy SOBs? Yeah, but at least, unlike Dell and others, they use some of those profits to develop innovations like the mini and the ipod. We won't see a 9550 or 9600 for the same reason we won't see a 7200rpm HD, because the part they do update to (5400rpm) provides 70-90% of the performance boost as those other upgrades at a fraction of the cost.
It's all about appearances. The 9550 and 9200 probably cost the same at this point. Since the Mac mini costs less than the iBook however they stick with the 9200 in order to keep the specs in harmony. Can't have a cheaper model looking as good as a more expensive one. Specs get downgraded as a result. They do this all the time with the iBooks and PowerBooks.
Originally posted by 1984
The problem is that a 9550 isn't exactly state of the art. It's an affordable low end chip these days and should be used in an affordable low end system like the Mac mini. There really is no excuse not to use them.
Exactly.
It's all about appearances. The 9550 and 9200 probably cost the same at this point. Since the Mac mini costs less than the iBook however they stick with the 9200 in order to keep the specs in harmony. Can't have a cheaper model looking as good as a more expensive one.
But this more expensive model (iBook) has built-in TFT display and keyboard, which alone account for the price difference. If this is indeed their logic, then I don't know what to say. Even the eMac has a Radeon 9600 now.
Originally posted by Guartho
Sorry to go a little off topic here, but I recently inherited a Rad 9650 that's now powering my QS 867. If I upgrade from Panther to Tiger, will I notice any performance increase due to Core Image?
these applications specifically make use of core image in tiger:
Image Tricks
http://macupdate.com/info.php/id/19033
Imaginator
http://macupdate.com/info.php/id/18280
in iPhoto5, i'm not sure but it probably uses core image in tiger for the image adjustment part
again with Keynote2, not sure but it could also uses some tiger technologies to accelerate transitions
as per PB's mention of photoshop which is not yet core-image-enabled AFAIK, you may find these apps may be more fun/productive/responsive than photoshop for certain tasks since the image processing is done fairly rapidly in GPU freeing up the CPU for other stuff like your bitTorrent downloading in the background
other than that you can have cool screensavers through quartz composer on os 10.4 tiger
"Quartz Composer brings together a rich set of graphical and nongraphical technologies, including Quartz 2D, Core Image, Core Video, OpenGL, QuickTime, MIDI System Services, and Real Simple Syndication (RSS), which is a lightweight XML format."
this Japanese site has some cool quartz composer screensavers
http://www.zugakousaku.com/index.cgi?quartz&samples&en&
so at the end of the day i suppose since you have a radeon9650, if you decide to tiger it up, mac os x tiger has an architecture in place for image compositing and processing that certain applications will take advantage of, and certain developers are coming up with new applications that make the most of these. IMO its fun and adds to the snappiness and gloss of tiger, whether it really really speeds things up depends on really what you do everyday with your mac.
Originally posted by PB
I think she can cancel the order and wait one or two weeks to see what comes from Apple.
Just got of the phone with Apple. They canceled the order without a problem. The apple care had already shipped, but we can apply it to the new model when we get it.
Of course, since we canceled the order the rumor will probably turn out to be false...
Originally posted by Res
Of course, since we canceled the order the rumor will probably turn out to be false...
I believe and hope not. The last Mac mini "update" was barely an update in the common sense. Furthermore, if the rumor proves to be true, this would probably indicate a new update scheme from Apple (gradual updates). There are many that would prefere that instead of the old practice of big updates, after months and months of stagnation.