iTunes universal binary, Rosetta improvements arrive in latest Intel seed
Despite its absence from all prior distributions, a version of iTunes that can run natively on the first Intel Macs, as well as on current PowerPC Macs, has turned up in a recent developer release of Mac OS X 10.4.3 for Intel.
The iTunes universal binary is one of over fifteen significant changes listed alongside the recent Developer Transition Kit seeding of Mac OS X 10.4.3 Intel build 8F1111, according to sources and reports on the Internet.
The release reportedly packed a slew of additional universal printer drivers from Brother, Canon, EFI, EPSON, HP, Lexmark, Ricoh, and Xerox.
Other notable improvements include a native version of QuickTime 7.0.4, a new SSE/SSE2 based Libm that is IEEE-754 and C99 compliant, and more accurate developer crash logs for Rosetta-dependant applications.
OpenGL applications running under Rosetta also showed signs of performance and correctness improvements in build 8F1111, sources said.
Meanwhile, an automatic update to build 8F1111, released over Software Update to developers who had previously installed 8F1111, followed by adding Rosetta support for applications that rely on Velocity Engine. Previously, Rosetta did not support AltiVec, which includes Velocity Engine.
According to reports, the build -- labeled 8F1111A -- also packed much improved ATI graphics drivers and enabled GDB to be invoked from applications running under Rosetta.
Mac OS X for Intel is scheduled to makes its public debut during the second week of January, where source say Apple will take the wraps off of the first Intel Macs.
The iTunes universal binary is one of over fifteen significant changes listed alongside the recent Developer Transition Kit seeding of Mac OS X 10.4.3 Intel build 8F1111, according to sources and reports on the Internet.
The release reportedly packed a slew of additional universal printer drivers from Brother, Canon, EFI, EPSON, HP, Lexmark, Ricoh, and Xerox.
Other notable improvements include a native version of QuickTime 7.0.4, a new SSE/SSE2 based Libm that is IEEE-754 and C99 compliant, and more accurate developer crash logs for Rosetta-dependant applications.
OpenGL applications running under Rosetta also showed signs of performance and correctness improvements in build 8F1111, sources said.
Meanwhile, an automatic update to build 8F1111, released over Software Update to developers who had previously installed 8F1111, followed by adding Rosetta support for applications that rely on Velocity Engine. Previously, Rosetta did not support AltiVec, which includes Velocity Engine.
According to reports, the build -- labeled 8F1111A -- also packed much improved ATI graphics drivers and enabled GDB to be invoked from applications running under Rosetta.
Mac OS X for Intel is scheduled to makes its public debut during the second week of January, where source say Apple will take the wraps off of the first Intel Macs.
Comments
Given all that, it's still pretty early in the game--over a month to go, and we know how often ThinkSecret changed its prediction on a video iPod, so I don't give them quite so much credibility anymore (although the Mac Mini PVR rumor is interesting).
I keep hearing that portables and minis will be the first to move to Intel, but it seems like they'd need the most changes internally. Until I hear of somebody actually seeing an Intel PowerBook or iBook, I don't think this is very big news.
But now we hear that the PowerBook might be one of the first ones out. I doubt that a lot of Pro users would buy this PowerBook if Adobe and other big 3rd party music, 3-D and video apps aren't ready.
Originally posted by AppleInsider
OpenGL applications running under Rosetta also showed signs of performance and correctness improvements in build 8F1111, sources said.
Signs of correctness improvements? I don't know what that means... but it implies Rosetta isn't quite as seamless as Jobs demonstrated???
Originally posted by illtron
With the pace that these developments are coming, I get the impression that it won't be software that holds up the release of an Intel Mac. I really don't hear much about the hardware, however. OS X might run on an Intel-based machine, but does Apple have any ready to ship? Making a P4 work in a G5 enclosure is hardly an engineering miracle.
I keep hearing that portables and minis will be the first to move to Intel, but it seems like they'd need the most changes internally. Until I hear of somebody actually seeing an Intel PowerBook or iBook, I don't think this is very big news.
In regards to P4 - thats not going to be the future of the Intel line (when are people going to read the friendly articles?!), its going to be based on the P6 core, which makes up the basis of the Pentium M processor - aka, the Yonah and successors that'll be comeing through.
All that has been said so far has been rumours of an Intel based iBooks and min-Macs, they'll the first; that at the value end, the end that'll be happy with the existing software line up - couple that with something like a more juiced up version of iWork along with iLife as well, its destined for greater improvements.
As for the release by January, I don't think it'll happen; we're in december, and it won't occur; I could see something before June, but I doubt before then.
As for the PowerMac and PowerBook - it won't be released until the end of next year - at the earliest - the simple fact, there won't be the applications that are required by professionals; even Adobe has said at the earliest, they'll get an Intel version of Creative suite by the end of next year, which I high doubt will occur - it might not be until the following year (2007).
For Apple, sure, their applications maybe working out of the box on day one, but the reality of the situation is that the world doesn't run on Apple software alone - as great as their software maybe.
The old version only emulated a G3. The new version emulates a G4 with Altivec.
This is a major step.
If Apple does release machines in January, this will be one of the more important reasons.
From what I've heard, PS, and other apps that are optimised for G4 and later cpu's that can also work with a G3 perform dreadfully under Rosetta. This will enhance that considerably.
Also, a number of programs that were opimised for a G4 and Altivec wouldn't even run under the older Rosetta.
This would tick off many people. Apple just enabled many more programs this way.
Originally posted by kaiwai
In regards to P4 - thats not going to be the future of the Intel line
<snip> .... rumours of an Intel based iBooks and min-Macs, they'll the first; that at the value end, the end that'll be happy with the existing software line up -
<snip> As for the release by January, I don't think it'll happen; we're in december, and it won't occur; I could see something before June, but I doubt before then.
Yes, the Pentium M (Yonah/laptop stuff) is the basis of future Intel chips and I think Apple will follow those chips as they move from low-power versions into the desktop over the coming 1-2 years.
I see no evidence for or against Apple not having the software ready for January. The hardware could certainly be done, the rest depends on OSX stability (and emulation). I wouldn't be surprised if Apple released an Intel based Mac-Mini-TV system that officially doesn't run 3rd-party applications AT ALL.
Originally posted by kaiwai
As for the PowerMac and PowerBook - it won't be released until the end of next year - at the earliest - the simple fact, there won't be the applications that are required by professionals; even Adobe has said at the earliest, they'll get an Intel version of Creative suite by the end of next year, which I high doubt will occur - it might not be until the following year (2007).
It depends on the speed of emulation. The G5 systems are FAST, but Apple Laptops are not so fast. If the emulation works well a laptop could feasibly be switched to Intel and run apps in emulation better than a G4 today. And I think Apple will either make that their goal, or wait till more apps are ported.
Greg
ps. The creative applications may not emulate as well as they could, but graphic artists rarely use laptops. They also like big screens, and the colour matching isn't available on LCDs. If graphics professionals can still buy a G4 17inch Powerbook and G5 PowerMacs for all of 2006 I think that part of Apple's customer-base will be fine.
Someone PLEASE make a few test runs and tell about the speed of Altivec code execution. It would give a good indication of how they implemented it...
Originally posted by Anders
Someone PLEASE make a few test runs and tell about the speed of Altivec code execution. It would give a good indication of how they implemented it...
You do realize you are encouraging people to breach contracts here?
Originally posted by melgross
The most important item in this release, now appearently confirmed after its revealing elsewhere last week, is the new Rosetta.
The old version only emulated a G3. The new version emulates a G4 with Altivec.
This is a major step.
If Apple does release machines in January, this will be one of the more important reasons.
From what I've heard, PS, and other apps that are optimised for G4 and later cpu's that can also work with a G3 perform dreadfully under Rosetta. This will enhance that considerably.
Also, a number of programs that were opimised for a G4 and Altivec wouldn't even run under the older Rosetta.
This would tick off many people. Apple just enabled many more programs this way.
Eggsactly, that's what I thought the minute I saw it written on a certain site. I'm a little bit suprised it takes a week to get here. However I hope that means they have their own sources.
I'm definately 'ticked off' now. All I need is to wait a few weeks after these things are released (OK I'm banking on the iBook - which is the debatable first release), See if they fall apart... Get a few reviews on comparative speeds running PS (and the like) on Intel vs my iBook 800 - and I'll go and get the keys to the safe safe (which I don't do often.). Here's also praying they don't go backwards to integrated graphics - or worse however.
------------------------------
0x4E441002 - 9700 Pro
0x41441002 - 9500 Pro
0x4E481002 - 9800 Pro
0x41481002 - 9800
0x41501002 - 9600
0x4E501002 - Mobility 9600 M10
0x41521002 - 9600
0x4E541002 - FireGL Mobility T2
0x4A481002 - X800
0x4A491002 - X800 Pro
0x4A4A1002 - X800 SE
0x4A4B1002 - X800
0x4A4C1002 - X800
0x4A4D1002 - FireGL X3
0x4A4E1002 - Mobility 9800
0x5B601002 - X300 PCIe
0x5B621002 - X600 PCIe
0x3E501002 - X600
0x4E561002 - FireGL Mobility T2e
0x5B641002 - FireGL V3100 PCIe
0x3E541002 - FireGL V3200
------------------------------
Note the FireGL drivers. Use of COTS video cards is a major perk with the move to intel. I'm assuming PPC & x86 drivers are not compatible, so the abundance of AGP cards is rather curious. Could this be the beginning of a Mac unified driver like catalyst? Or something else?
Originally posted by illtron
With the pace that these developments are coming, I get the impression that it won't be software that holds up the release of an Intel Mac.
Funny, I have the exact opposite fealing.. If Apple really is planning to launch Mactels in january, I would expect OSX to be fully ported and at least halfway through RC-testing by now..
Originally posted by Anders
I agree with melgross. Rosettas ability to run altivec optimized code is the news here.
Someone PLEASE make a few test runs and tell about the speed of Altivec code execution. It would give a good indication of how they implemented it...
I would expect something along the lines of SSE-->Altivec.
Pure Mhz --> Altivec emulation wont make any sense until a few years in the future, if im not mistaken?
Originally posted by lundy
But now we hear that the PowerBook might be one of the first ones out. I doubt that a lot of Pro users would buy this PowerBook if Adobe and other big 3rd party music, 3-D and video apps aren't ready.
As someone who only buys PowerBooks and is primarily a business user, the switch over point for me will be when Microsoft releases a native Intel version MS Office for Mac OS X. I won't budge before that happens.
The other important news is native Intel Quicktime 7.0.4. If the PPC apps are calling out to quicktime for codec work then that's going to sort out a lot of speed in important areas.
Originally posted by neondiet
As someone who only buys PowerBooks and is primarily a business user, the switch over point for me will be when Microsoft releases a native Intel version MS Office for Mac OS X. I won't budge before that happens.
Really? Why? It's hardly taxing on the CPU so that's exactly the kind of app that would work well in Rosetta.
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Really? Why? It's hardly taxing on the CPU so that's exactly the kind of app that would work well in Rosetta.
And since Intel based PowerBooks are probably much faster than the current G4 PowerBooks, Office running in Rosetta will likely be faster than on a G4.
Originally posted by JLL
And since Intel based PowerBooks are probably much faster than the current G4 PowerBooks, Office running in Rosetta will likely be faster than on a G4.
That remains to be seen. There's a lot to speculate on there including...
Rosetta using both cores even for single threaded apps
Powerbooks being dual core
CPU speed being significantly faster than currently.
How much of the infrastructure the application uses that is native.
I've no handle on how much of Office v.X or 2003 is Microsoft's own cobbled together frameworks or how much is Apple's. I presume it's not cocoa and they've got their own weird carbon-esque UI crap in there last I used v.X and briefly watched someone else's Office2003 with it's horrible fading toolbar. Ugh.
Originally posted by T'hain Esh Kelch
I would expect something along the lines of SSE-->Altivec.
Pure Mhz --> Altivec emulation wont make any sense until a few years in the future, if im not mistaken?
Thats the question. If they can convert Altivec code to SSE instructions it will be quite impressive. If not, it only help those who HAS to have Altivec only filters to work and don´t care if their program suddenly floats in molasses (since the "back-up-if-on-G3 code surely will be much faster). Thats why I hope some will do some tests, so we will find out how it is implementet.
Originally posted by aegisdesign
That remains to be seen. There's a lot to speculate on there including...
Rosetta using both cores even for single threaded apps
Powerbooks being dual core
CPU speed being significantly faster than currently.
How much of the infrastructure the application uses that is native.
Intel doesn't have something as slow as a 1.67GHz G4 as far as I can see, and Office runs fine on the Developer Transition Kit.