Question for Switchers
I was discussing this on a separate thread and decided to start a new one specifically for it. I've heard from so many PC users who have never touched a mac how bad macs are and that they're useless as computer, many of those same PC users are now Mac users after having first used a Mac. I want to know, why? Why is there such a vehement hatred for the Macintosh by those that have never used it? What did you think of macs before trying them and why?
Comments
Once I got my iPod last year I started investigating Apple products in general and decided to make the jump once they started shipping with Intel. That's come around a little quicker than I thought it would! I'm not exactly sure why I chose that particular point to start out with Macs, I guess it was just a nice clean break. Now I'm so excited and can't wait to get my hands on it and just take it for a run.
Even if I find I hate my Mac at least I can say I tried. That's more than other people who slate them just because that's what others say. Maybe by having a Mac and being around them I can demonstrate what they're all about and open some eyes.
Then again, maybe they're just glued shut...
Originally posted by akheron01
I was discussing this on a separate thread and decided to start a new one specifically for it. I've heard from so many PC users who have never touched a mac how bad macs are and that they're useless as computer, many of those same PC users are now Mac users after having first used a Mac. I want to know, why? Why is there such a vehement hatred for the Macintosh by those that have never used it? What did you think of macs before trying them and why?
Envy, fear, ignorance:
As an IT student, I get one of these three reactions when peers find out I am a Mac guy (or I so much as mention OSX to friends who already know) It usualy works out like this:
Envy: comments like "damn, I wish I had that much $$ to throw away" -- I fit into this group myself even as a Mac user, on a Mini, I feel like a 3rd world citizen in the Apple community: ONE ram slot??? what the fsck? not self-servicable without an ICEPICK??? again, WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT ABOUT???????? 40 gig HDD with no aftermarket internal expantion....an overclocked version of a 6-ish year old proc Do I like Mac OSx? HELL YES, Would I buy the Mini again? HELL NO, I would go with Linux on self built rigs untill I had the $2500 to get a proper computer from Apple.
Fear: Based on experiance, PC guys think that Mac OS X is just the same old peice of shit Mac/OS circa 1984-200x with a little unix under the hood...this sentiment disappears after 5 minutes hands on with the Mini here.
Ignorance: basicly they buy all the FUD without thought, period.
Why did I switch? I was sick of my WinXP laptop running like a dog because I had to have anti-viral/worm/trojan software running 24/7. Also I work in IT and used to working with a command line, the DOS-like command like sucks and wasn't friendly.
Sure there was a few problems switching, but that was mainly trying to find a Mac OS X replacement for some MS application. Because I switched when Tiger came out, I can't compare earlier versions, but to compare Tiger to XP, Tiger won hands down: Spotlight, Widgets and just general ease of use.
My partner was giving me hell for buying a Mac, but I would see him use it as soon as he could when he came over. It's only a matter of time when he switches.
I switched a little over 2 years ago, bought a PowerBook G4 and regreted it for some time because I paid allot for it, almost $4k with all the bells and wistles. And I found that games were a thing of the past on my PowerBook becuase it wasn't fast enough and there wasn't enough games out there. I also could not chat in Yahoo groups.
About 1.5 years ago, all that started to change.. I really don't care about games anymore, and if I want a good game experience I will by a game console. I don't care much for chatting anymore.
What I absolute love about the MAC is that I don't have to worry about spyware, botware, trojans, viruses etc (I don't even know what their called anymore). I also love the Operating System. I love how my iPods work with iTunes. I love my 17 inch wide display. I love that all Mac Apps are essentially better thatn PC Apps. Mac has TASTE while Windows doesn't. I am a big forum and message board buff now.
Probly, the only thing that has hurt me is that I write windows application for a living. So, given that I don't use a PC at home, I am not playing around with windows related frameworks or writting code at home. But, I did buy a Dell PC just for this purpose. I have a Dell flat panel as a monitor for that purpose too. But I have since stored the Dell away and am using the Dell monitor as a secondary on my PowerBook. If I ever need to write windos code, I will plug in my PC. Until then, I think it can wait..
Originally posted by akheron01
I was discussing this on a separate thread and decided to start a new one specifically for it. I've heard from so many PC users who have never touched a mac how bad macs are and that they're useless as computer, many of those same PC users are now Mac users after having first used a Mac. I want to know, why? Why is there such a vehement hatred for the Macintosh by those that have never used it? What did you think of macs before trying them and why?
It's simple, people hate what they don't understand. This is true for both PC and Mac users. They see something that isn't quite mainstream and assue it must be inferior. Mac users see something that doesn't take Apple's approach and think it must be inferior.
here are my thoughts:
1. opinions are retrospective. apple had huge education market share. however, after elementary school, few schools had apples. this probably contributed to the impression that macs were something that you grew out of.
2. macs are not found in business. in fact, apple ignored corporations and even now still is. this continues the impression that macs are not serious machines.
3. gamers rarely developed on the mac platform. impression left is macs are not for young people.
however, iPod brand has changed the dynamics. also apple brick and mortar stores are hip as well.
halo slight or otherwise is there. howevever, for apple to use iPod to get to 5% market share is almost impossible. it need to double current sales to get there. that means doubling its best quarters strung together.
once/if apple is able to capture the living room, a mac in the study or den to go along with the mac mini in the living room will get mac to 5% market share. but it needs to win big in the living room space to get there.
and, in the process, get respect.
Originally posted by niji
1. opinions are retrospective. apple had huge education market share. however, after elementary school, few schools had apples. this probably contributed to the impression that macs were something that you grew out of.
2. macs are not found in business. in fact, apple ignored corporations and even now still is. this continues the impression that macs are not serious machines.
3. gamers rarely developed on the mac platform. impression left is macs are not for young people.
In all fairness, they do tend to shy away from the needs of those three markets these days.
I think many Windows users who haven't kept current on Apple's product line still think of Macs as candy-colored all-in-ones (or even older machines) running System 8 or 9. Right or wrong, a common perception is that Macs are slow, crash-prone (pre-OSX experience), relatively expensive, and don't run "industry-standard" software. I don't think most Windows users "hate" or "fear" Macs, many just don't perceive enough value to warrant thinking about switching.
There's also a common perception that computers are now commodities: they're essentially all the same and the major differentiator is price. I know PC users who don't worry about viruses because if their computers got too infected to work properly, they'd simply buy a new one for a few hundred dollars, and as a bonus get an upgrade to their Windows OS without installation hassles.
For people who don't have a high involvement with their computers (i.e., task-based users, not creative types), many tasks are close enough in function that platform is irrelevant: the Web, email, Word, Excel, Quicken, AIM, MSN -- the experience is similar enough not to warrant a major investment in a new platform.
I delayed switching because I have to demo a Win only app on sales calls. Finally took the time to talk with an Apple Rep at CompUSA and learned about VPC, which solved my problems. The primary reason for switching at that time was to avoid malware on overseas business trips. Since then I have moved totally to Macs in the office (a 1.5 15" PB with a 23" display) and at home (a 20" G5 iMac and a 12" iBook for the wife), plus iPods for all in the family - my 4 year old granddaughter has my original 5 gig iPod!
The lack of software is a myth. There is a ton. I go to an ad free site (http://osx.hyperjeff.net/Apps/) 2 - 3 times a week to get the latest listing. The site has 14,000+ OS X apps, everything from freeware to full commercial packages.
The cost factor is also a myth. The Dells I used in the office were about as expensive as the G5 iMac. Same with the notebooks I used to carry. Throw in the free apps and no need to pay for virus protection and the cost difference is minimal - and sometimes the Mac is cheaper.
Some Mac users love to believe that PCs crash constantly and you can't be on the internet for 5 minutes without being infected with a virus. And to avoid it, you need hundreds of dollars worth of software to protect yourself. Neither are true, but hey, ignorance is bliss.
The elite PC users are just louder since there are basically 10x as many of them.
But the attitudes are similar. Elite PC users mostly spout off old stereotypes, and Mac Elites spout off the latest PR from the mothership.
People that walk around blindly criticizing things they know nothing about usually end up just missing out on life. This goes for everything. Negativity creates negativity.
I'd rather do positive things with my Mac and positive things in my life.
One day my PC freezes while I was doing a written work (Ellen Feiss anyone?
Now that I look at the past, I feel sorry for my first computer not having been an iMac G3. Really. I'm not going back to Windows.
As to the mockery, even my boyfriend makes lame jokes about my Mac. Why oh why I'm dating an idiot?
It's just like a_greer said: it's all about ignorance, fear and envy. It's so sad.
Originally posted by niji
i dont think anyone is hitting the fundamental reasons.
here are my thoughts:
1. opinions are retrospective. apple had huge education market share. however, after elementary school, few schools had apples. this probably contributed to the impression that macs were something that you grew out of.
And those Macs were gawd awful. My elementary school had a mix of Macintosh IIs and a few early Quadras and they left a bad taste in my mouth at the age of6-8, I was already using DOS at home and had never had a crash, these Macs crashed all of the time...Got to High school and in the newspaper rooms Macs were the workflow, a few 9x00s and a few early G3 desktops with OS/8.2(ish) and they crashed a lot too, except for the one attached to the scanner which had the max amount of ram that the tech could add. I couldnt open my .doc files in the version of Office on htose things, had to submit my work in .rtf, and this is before I had a CD burner at home and thumbdrives were really expencive (1999-ish) and going from Windows 98 at home to the Macs with a floppy was...unpleasent, since the Mac was crashing a lot, and my PC wasnt, I figured that Macs suck, the fact that I couldnt geta disk out of the drive without using software controls bugged (and still buggs) me too.
It all changed when I turned on ZDTV and saw video of steve jobs demoing Rhapsody/OSX at a conferance...it was unix, it would support SMB, it was heavily focused on standards cmpliance, and it didnt crash nearly as much...I really wanted OSX from day 0, but couldnt afford it untill last March, and I really am impressed witgh the improvment over the last 7 years.
Apple is not the same platform that it was PRE-OSX, it doesnt suck any more.
Originally posted by BenRoethig
In all fairness, they do tend to shy away from the needs of those three markets these days.
Wait, when the iPod matures, and the intel sitch is complete, they can focus on the corprate market, those guys buy a platform for the long haul, PPC/OSX is dying, and before that the transition from 8/9 to OSX ment that the platform as it exists or existed is dying or dead and the new platform is inmature.
Wait till mid 2007 -- That will be when I predict you will see corprate markets get attention.
Originally posted by a_greer
Wait, when the iPod matures, and the intel sitch is complete, they can focus on the corprate market, those guys buy a platform for the long haul, PPC/OSX is dying, and before that the transition from 8/9 to OSX ment that the platform as it exists or existed is dying or dead and the new platform is inmature.
Wait till mid 2007 -- That will be when I predict you will see corprate markets get attention.
You think so? Corporate America is deeply, deeply anti-Apple.
Honestly, I think Apple going for the corporate market is a bit of a lost cause....
Originally posted by gregmightdothat
You think so? Corporate America is deeply, deeply anti-Apple.
Honestly, I think Apple going for the corporate market is a bit of a lost cause....
No--Business is pro profit, and untill now Apple never had a drawing card, but with the proven stability and secrity of OSX(5 years with no wild viruses or spy/ad/crapware) they can now say "we are secure, here is OSX' five year trackrecord and a look at our roadmap"
Apple would need to focus on a line of low overhead, low overall TCO devices like the Mini, or the iMac, which would make an exelent computer for business.
The one peice missing is Office productivity tools, and I think every one is looking past something here, Apple just got a 5-year commitment from MS to keep office Mac alive. With that in thier hip pocket, they can work silently with others like Sun on OOo/Staroffice and an Apple compliant version of that. In exchange, Apple could offer everything in the Clarris portfolio (access to patents and other IP as Apple isnt using it any more...) and Keynote would be a prototype for Impress, Apple sould also leverage the Filemaker platform, which isnt selling outside of Apple users anyway.
Picture this: OOo/Staroffice as a totally cross platform (read Apple, Windows and any *NIX with X11) as a 50/50 venture between Sun and Apple, with the resulting Staroffice version to ship on every Mac.
Apple could easily get inroads into corporate if they cared.
Honestly, I think iWork is a shill for something bigger, why else would the 3rd release of it have less than half the functionality of AppleWorks/ClarrisWorks?
Originally posted by gregmightdothat
You think so? Corporate America is deeply, deeply anti-Apple.
Honestly, I think Apple going for the corporate market is a bit of a lost cause....
Anti-Apple maybe, but anti-OSX remains to be seen. The reliability of the OS and multi-tasking abilities would be an asset to a corporattion. Unfortunately, it's not cool enough for Steve.