What about an AirDrive?
Hey, what do you think?
An Apple AirDrive, you use it for storage of media. You hook it up to the new Airport Express they'll release along with it. You can have the option of downloading full length movies from iTunes directly to the local drive, or your AirDrive. And there would also be a way to sync to your local drive select movies or tv shows from the AirDrive to a local laptop drive for on the go viewing. And of course, it can also serve simply as an external hard drive as well.
Oh yah, the new Airport would have AirVideo on it as well, so you can plug in an Apple video adapter which leads to your TV or amplifier, and of course, the AirTunes handles the audio. And all of this works seamlessly with FrontRow, if your computer detects a display attached to the Airport, it gives you the option to output to it.
Thinking about this, you'd need an app to interface with the airport display. iMedia?
An Apple AirDrive, you use it for storage of media. You hook it up to the new Airport Express they'll release along with it. You can have the option of downloading full length movies from iTunes directly to the local drive, or your AirDrive. And there would also be a way to sync to your local drive select movies or tv shows from the AirDrive to a local laptop drive for on the go viewing. And of course, it can also serve simply as an external hard drive as well.
Oh yah, the new Airport would have AirVideo on it as well, so you can plug in an Apple video adapter which leads to your TV or amplifier, and of course, the AirTunes handles the audio. And all of this works seamlessly with FrontRow, if your computer detects a display attached to the Airport, it gives you the option to output to it.
Thinking about this, you'd need an app to interface with the airport display. iMedia?
Comments
Originally posted by DeaPeaJay
On second thought, the airdrive wouldn't need to have an airport express go along with it, the Airport would be built into the drive and it would simply join the existing wireless network.
To build on that, instead of copying/selecting media, it can just store all of it and make it available over an internet connection, just like Orb does it with Windows and Tivo.
So your really store everything on that drive, and while at home, stream it thru your LAN, but when away, you access your media on the AirDrive through iTunes and files/data thru a drive in the Finder.
On second thought, the streaming to the internet part can be in addition to copying/syncig because currently, there are still places with no Internet.
Also, this can somehow tie in with .Mac.
Storage is key and I think people would love matching Apple drives that complement their computers. Plus this drive would be perfect for consolidating family itunes into a central location. This makes it easier to backup and manage.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
Airport is a little slow for drive access. Given that it doesn't really matter where you put an external hard disk, there's no real advantage for placing it in a remote location. In other words, I don't see the comparative advantage of an "AirDisk" versus an external USB/Firewire disk.
Well, I've got a laptop as my primary computer. It's a royal pain to have to move from my comfortable position on the couch and plug into the Firewire drive. And this way, all computers in the house could access the drive without having to connect to the machine that a firewire drive is plugged into.
The speed issues are another thing.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
Airport is a little slow for drive access. Given that it doesn't really matter where you put an external hard disk, there's no real advantage for placing it in a remote location. In other words, I don't see the comparative advantage of an "AirDisk" versus an external USB/Firewire disk.
What DeaPeaJay said, and a few more things:
-by the time this NAS would be released, I think 802.11N would be in place, and a few years after that we will see the new Bluetooth standard v3.0, which is supposed to be at FireWire 400 speeds (correct me if I'm wrong here). So speed won't be an issue very soon.
Also, an idea: what if they made this NAS capable of streaming to the internet so you would be able to access your iTunes media through a cell phone/internet-connected device? This way, future iPods won't have to have hard disks inside of them, they would just connect over the web to the NAS at home. With all the recent Apple MVNO and cell-phone rumors flying around, this might be a viable alternative (and solve the issue of portable (read iPod) storage.
You could have a bunch of computers in the house all connecting to one HD via 802.11n which would store Home directories and shared files.
Cost of computers could be reduced because they wouldn't need large HDs. Just enough to store the OS and apps. Additional and local HD space would be an option to those that really need speedy access to files.
802.11n is called "well over ten times faster than 802.11a/g", which gives us, say, 700 MBit/s. Judging by previous 802.11 versions, only about 75% of that will effectively be used, and that's very optimistic. That gives us 525 MBit/s, or about 66 MByte/s. Compare this to the 150 MByte/s of SATA I and the 300 MByte/s of SATA II, and consider that 802.11n isn't even out yet, and you should have a slight idea of why this is problematic.
To make matter worse, you can't even begin to compare latency. A wireless connection is not only significantly higher-latency due to mere distance, but this is worsened further thanks to encryption. In fact, encryption will decrease bandwidth, tooc
ccan you see where this is going?
Originally posted by kim kap sol
It's a fantastic idea and would solve the age old issues with synching.
You could have a bunch of computers in the house all connecting to one HD via 802.11n which would store Home directories and shared files.
Cost of computers could be reduced because they wouldn't need large HDs. Just enough to store the OS and apps. Additional and local HD space would be an option to those that really need speedy access to files.
And it would also extend the battery lives of portables!!! So how about a 4-10GB flash hard disk on portable computers to store the OS and apps!!! No spinning battery-sucking hard drives. Maybe that's what Apple needs those huge orders or flash ram for, hmmm one can only hope...
Originally posted by Chucker
There's the problem that wireless bandwidth will always be slower than wired bandwidth, and networked bandwidth will always be slower than local bandwidth.
802.11n is called "well over ten times faster than 802.11a/g", which gives us, say, 700 MBit/s. Judging by previous 802.11 versions, only about 75% of that will effectively be used, and that's very optimistic. That gives us 525 MBit/s, or about 66 MByte/s. Compare this to the 150 MByte/s of SATA I and the 300 MByte/s of SATA II, and consider that 802.11n isn't even out yet, and you should have a slight idea of why this is problematic.
To make matter worse, you can't even begin to compare latency. A wireless connection is not only significantly higher-latency due to mere distance, but this is worsened further thanks to encryption. In fact, encryption will decrease bandwidth, too?c
?ccan you see where this is going?
I would envision this as being primarily for media. Maybe put in a dvr for all those peeps that have been crying for one. It could technically have the capability for regular storage, but it's primary use would be for storage of movies and music and all the things that front row accesses.
Originally posted by DeaPeaJay
Well, I've got a laptop as my primary computer. It's a royal pain to have to move from my comfortable position on the couch and plug into the Firewire drive. And this way, all computers in the house could access the drive without having to connect to the machine that a firewire drive is plugged into.
The speed issues are another thing.
I suppose you've never heard of network filesharing. Just share the disk on one of your computers. Done.
Originally posted by DeaPeaJay
I would envision this as being primarily for media. Maybe put in a dvr for all those peeps that have been crying for one. It could technically have the capability for regular storage, but it's primary use would be for storage of movies and music and all the things that front row accesses.
You mean, like, a Mac Mini?
Originally posted by alexluft
I think 802.11N would be in place, and a few years after that we will see the new Bluetooth standard v3.0, which is supposed to be at FireWire 400 speeds (correct me if I'm wrong here). So speed won't be an issue very soon.
802.11n isn't that much faster than a/b/g, if at all. It's just better at handling multiple connections.
Bluetooth UWB will never see the light of day. Wireless USB wiil, though, and a lot sooner. In fact, I'm surprised there aren't wireless USB products out now. It's a UWB product, and like all UWB products it has VERY short range (so would BT UWB). It's still not Firewire 400, but no one seems to have a problem with USB 2.0, which Wireless USB is similar to, speed-wise.
[B]I suppose you've never heard of network filesharing. Just share the disk on one of your computers. Done.
Have your ever envisioned such a scenario?
Jack and Jane both have Macs and live together. While Jack is out of the house with is MacBook Pro, Jane wants to watch an episode of Lost on her TV through her Mac Mini and Front Row media sharing feature. What does she do? Network filesharing won't help her, mate. But a NAS would.
Originally posted by alexluft
Have your ever envisioned such a scenario?
Jack and Jane both have Macs and live together. While Jack is out of the house with is MacBook Pro, Jane wants to watch an episode of Lost on her TV through her Mac Mini and Front Row media sharing feature. What does she do? Network filesharing won't help her, mate. But a NAS would.
How about plugging in an external disk into that Mac Mini, or just using the disk on the Mini itself? There's nothing inherently special about NAS: it's just a fileshare.
I bet you can pick up a used mac (or PC) real cheap and set up your own file server. Hell, I have a Yosemite G3 for this purpose. I have been thinking about upgrading to a Mini, but there's no point.
If you have an AirPort Base Station, and gave it the ability to add drives to it, that would become an instant success. Also, if it was done in RAID 0 (I believe), where it is striped across the drives, you could literally keep adding drives as necessary. This solves the problem of having media file after media file, which will eat up space.
I am thinking something like this:
Warning: I am by far, NOT a graphic designer.
Originally posted by Chucker
There's the problem that wireless bandwidth will always be slower than wired bandwidth, and networked bandwidth will always be slower than local bandwidth.
802.11n is called "well over ten times faster than 802.11a/g", which gives us, say, 700 MBit/s. Judging by previous 802.11 versions, only about 75% of that will effectively be used, and that's very optimistic. That gives us 525 MBit/s, or about 66 MByte/s. Compare this to the 150 MByte/s of SATA I and the 300 MByte/s of SATA II, and consider that 802.11n isn't even out yet, and you should have a slight idea of why this is problematic.
To make matter worse, you can't even begin to compare latency. A wireless connection is not only significantly higher-latency due to mere distance, but this is worsened further thanks to encryption. In fact, encryption will decrease bandwidth, tooc
ccan you see where this is going?
Like some have mentioned, this is just a solution for media and documents.
Internal HDs would still exist for app that must regularly and rapidly read from and write to HDs.
But for music, photo, movie, recipe, etc. libraries, it just doesn't make sense to have to sync those files to other computers or set up a file share. Slap 'em into a networked 'AirDrive' and allow any computer or TV in the house to access the files.
Think of it as a trimmed down xbox 360.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
How about plugging in an external disk into that Mac Mini, or just using the disk on the Mini itself? There's nothing inherently special about NAS: it's just a fileshare.
I bet you can pick up a used mac (or PC) real cheap and set up your own file server. Hell, I have a Yosemite G3 for this purpose. I have been thinking about upgrading to a Mini, but there's no point.
I don't see the reason why you feel compelled to offer a more complicated, feature-less alternative than the one I'm talking about. Yes, you can set up a fileshare on any box, heck you could even do an FTP if you wanted to, but this does not go in hand with the way Apple does things: simple and uncomplicated, transparent to the end user.
yes, you and I can do this and we have a few other options, but they won't be anywhere near as integrated as something Apple would offer, not even talking about the general consumer - those who actually buy iPods and make Apple all the money reported yesterday. (and a Mac mini has a laptop hard disk... not very good for all-ways on operation)...
The fact is, there is not a SIMPLE way to do this right now. Also, explain to me how your "real cheap file server" would give me access to my data when away from the network: say I want access to my movies on the "file server" but I'm 300 miles away on a business trip. Do you suggest the regular consumer set up an FTP server? I consider myself tech-savvy and I had trouble doing it this past weekend.
Originally posted by alexluft
I don't see the reason why you feel compelled to offer a more complicated, feature-less alternative than the one I'm talking about.
Because I design electronics products, know the limitations of this type of hardware, and know how the market thinks. I'm trying to tell you that a headless disk with a wireless interface is a product that will have a hard time selling in the consumer sector. There have been many gallant attempts at bringing ethernet-driven disks onto the consumer level, but that hasn't taken off. I'm not sure anyone's doing it on the corporate level anymore, either.
What we see is that it's not interesting to make a headless disk. If there's an application in mind, say, DVR, it would be easier and better to simply join a DVR to a wireless access point and have your product. The DVR already runs Linux and has an HD interface, so the infrastructure is already there. The same can be said for a Mac Mini. Producing an embedded-Linux-based headless disk is going to add about $100-200 of cost, perhaps more. We're getting into a level of performance where the ultra-mass-produced Micrel chips that have ARM9 cores and routers/basestations on the same die aren't going to cut it. At the end of the day, the value proposition for a headless disk just isn't there.
Beyond all this, I'm not sure how you mean "feature-less." Hooking a disk to a mac mini will provide you with the most feature-rich solution, bar-none. The fact that it has a 2.5" disk doesn't mean much in this case. I've had about as much trouble with 2.5" disks as I've had with 3.5" disks, and at this stage in the game, it's a myth that consumer 3.5" disks are somehow more rugged: they run hotter and at higher RPMs, and in all likelihood are less reliable.
As for your trouble with FTP, I'm afraid I can't help you. I've never had much trouble getting FTP to work. Perhaps you have an internet router that is blocking port 21 from going out. For most of the commodity routers, getting stuff to work as advertised can be a crapshoot at times. But having the "air-disk" isn't going to all of the sudden solve this problem.
Originally posted by alexluft
I don't see the reason why you feel compelled to offer a more complicated, feature-less alternative than the one I'm talking about. Yes, you can set up a fileshare on any box, heck you could even do an FTP if you wanted to, but this does not go in hand with the way Apple does things: simple and uncomplicated, transparent to the end user.
yes, you and I can do this and we have a few other options, but they won't be anywhere near as integrated as something Apple would offer, not even talking about the general consumer - those who actually buy iPods and make Apple all the money reported yesterday. (and a Mac mini has a laptop hard disk... not very good for all-ways on operation)...
The fact is, there is not a SIMPLE way to do this right now. Also, explain to me how your "real cheap file server" would give me access to my data when away from the network: say I want access to my movies on the "file server" but I'm 300 miles away on a business trip. Do you suggest the regular consumer set up an FTP server? I consider myself tech-savvy and I had trouble doing it this past weekend.
I think that nails it in the head here. We have a couple issues to be resolved first.
Issue 1: Latency. For your standard streaming of media files, and non-intensive files (aka Photoshop files, iMovie files, etc), 54Mb/s is going to be fast "enough". However, that is inside your network.
Issue 2: I want to see my files outside my network. If we want to make this completely transparent to the end user, then we need to have a VPN solution, or some way to be able to quickly identify what the IP address is for our outside network is. I double-dog dare you to walk an Average Joe Blow through this. No way; so it has to be simple, and easy for the AJB to remember. Possibly their .Mac id?
Issue 3: Ok, we're shared; how do we deal with the DRM? This, to me, is the biggie. Does the AirDrive or AirDisk count as a Computer (according to Fair Play)? If not, you know that the RIAA/MPAA is going to be up in arms about that one. If it is, your AJB will be upset by that as well. Maybe the way around this is by classifying this as an iPod-like device?
Issue 4: I have run out of space! Between myself and my wife, we could easily eat up 100 GB of storage in media files alone. So, if we want to add our newly-aquired collection of music on this thing, how do we do this? I have proposed that we simply add an additional drive to the bottom of an AirPort Extreme, and add space that way. Need more space after the first disk is bought, attach an another one to the bottom of the first, so we stack them up. That way it can continue to grow in size, and Apple can continue to get revenue stream from the selling of additional disks.
I think that the hardware is there for this, however there are some certain issues that need to be addressed before this can really come into play. Once those have addressed, then we will see the AirDrive/AirDisk come to being.
[B]Because I design electronics products, know the limitations of this type of hardware, and know how the market thinks. I'm trying to tell you that a headless disk with a wireless interface is a product that will have a hard time selling in the consumer sector. There have been many gallant attempts at bringing ethernet-driven disks onto the consumer level, but that hasn't taken off. I'm not sure anyone's doing it on the corporate level anymore, either.[QUOTE]
First: have there been any attempts at bringing a headless disk that can give you access to its contents over the internet? And the disk won't really be headless, it will have a UI that anybody on your network will access - it's data; moreover, I don't think you understand the second set of features - outside your LAN: access the drive's contents from anywhere you want with an internet connection.
Second: are you stating that you know how the market will react to such a device with the capability described above? Introduce me to one person who owns an iPod and has more than say 5GB of media who wouldn't want the ability to access it from anywhere.
[QUOTE]What we see is that it's not interesting to make a headless disk. If there's an application in mind, say, DVR, it would be easier and better to simply join a DVR to a wireless access point and have your product. The DVR already runs Linux and has an HD interface, so the infrastructure is already there. The same can be said for a Mac Mini. Producing an embedded-Linux-based headless disk is going to add about $100-200 of cost, perhaps more. We're getting into a level of performance where the ultra-mass-produced Micrel chips that have ARM9 cores and routers/basestations on the same die aren't going to cut it. At the end of the day, the value proposition for a headless disk just isn't there.
Beyond all this, I'm not sure how you mean "feature-less." Hooking a disk to a mac mini will provide you with the most feature-rich solution, bar-none. The fact that it has a 2.5" disk doesn't mean much in this case. I've had about as much trouble with 2.5" disks as I've had with 3.5" disks, and at this stage in the game, it's a myth that consumer 3.5" disks are somehow more rugged: they run hotter and at higher RPMs, and in all likelihood are less reliable.[QUOTE]
What I mean by "feature-less" is that any box you make a personal storage server won't be able to *easily* give you access to your files over the web, as my proposed product would.
And just how Mike Eggleston said, there are a few resolvable issues, especially the ones with the "seamless" IP address and the DRM issues.
P.S: my problem with FTP was that I was using the standard FTP server with OS X and that doesn't give you the account user name and password for users... That's what got me.
Originally posted by DeaPeaJay
Hey, what do you think?
An Apple AirDrive, you use it for storage of media. You hook it up to the new Airport Express they'll release along with it. You can have the option of downloading full length movies from iTunes directly to the local drive, or your AirDrive. And there would also be a way to sync to your local drive select movies or tv shows from the AirDrive to a local laptop drive for on the go viewing. And of course, it can also serve simply as an external hard drive as well.
Oh yah, the new Airport would have AirVideo on it as well, so you can plug in an Apple video adapter which leads to your TV or amplifier, and of course, the AirTunes handles the audio. And all of this works seamlessly with FrontRow, if your computer detects a display attached to the Airport, it gives you the option to output to it.
Thinking about this, you'd need an app to interface with the airport display. iMedia?
This is a great idea for apple to launch. Airport extreme/express has not had an update in years and this would be a great tiered upsell for households through design houses.
Buffalo Technologies has this paired product offering. Again, I think it is a great idea for apple to have in the suite of products.
Now that I have given it some thought. It is the perfect hardware compliment to the Final Cut HD Production Suite.
itunes - ipod
iMovie - Digital camcorder
iPhoto - digital camera
iDVD - DVD Player
Final Cut Pro HD - Airport Extreme w/ Giga Storage Unit