Silent recall issued for some MacBook Pro batteries

Posted:
in Current Mac Hardware edited January 2014
Apple Computer's AppleCare division has acknowledged that an issue exists with a small number of early MacBook Pro batteries and is cross-shipping fresh replacements to customers experiencing specific issues, according to reports.



The problem appears to affect MacBook Pro models with serial numbers up to W8608, suggesting that only those notebooks manufactured during the first two weeks of MacBook Pro production are potentially affected.



Apple has reportedly issued a silent recall of batteries showing symptoms that include: the battery level going from a full charge to 90 percent then immediately to no charge; the battery's charge instantly depleting to a single blinking LED; the battery failing to respond at all; or the battery experiencing any other sizable loss of capacity.



Meanwhile, a group of MacBook Pro owners, disgruntled with ongoing heat and "whining" issues prevalent in early MacBook Pros, plan to band together for a day of action on May 20th.



"Apple seems to be taking these annoyances very lightly, and as such, something needs to be done," the group's organizer wrote on the osx86project.org Web site. "We need to let Apple know we're tired of them not paying attention to our complaints."



The organizer urges that MacBook Pro owners experiencing whining and heat issues call Apple support on May 20th "and tell them about it."



Apple, however, already appears to be aware of the problems. The company this week served a cease and desist order to the webmaster of Something Awful after one of the site's users posted a link to the MacBook Pro service manual in an effort to help some users remedy their MacBook Pro heat issues.
«1

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 26
    kreshkresh Posts: 379member
    article corrected - post withdrawn



  • Reply 2 of 26
    slugheadslughead Posts: 1,169member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by AppleInsider

    Apple, however, already appears to be aware of the problem. The company this week served a cease and desist order to the webmaster of Something Awful after one of the site's users posted a link to the MacBook Pro service manual in an effort to help some users remedy their MacBook Pro heat issues.



    HARSH! I read that post, too.



    Can someone explain how it's wrong to show users a clip of an instruction manual on how to fix a problem with your computer?



    I think people handling this on their own would be a good thing for Apple.. I don't get it.
  • Reply 3 of 26
    tag me backtag me back Posts: 121member
    This is what happens when you rush a product to market. Remember what happened with apple's first PowerPC laptop?
  • Reply 4 of 26
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    Originally posted by slughead

    Can someone explain how it's wrong to show users a clip of an instruction manual on how to fix a problem with your computer?






    What exactly is the fix? Is it a simple thing or something way complex? If it can be easily fixed is AppleCare (1 year or 3 year version) refusing to fix it?
  • Reply 5 of 26
    deapeajaydeapeajay Posts: 909member
    I know I'm gonna get flamed for this, but do these people know for sure that the alleged problems they're having aren't simply normal?



    My MBP gets pretty hot too. And if I were in a whiny enough mood, I'd complain about it. But it's not any hotter than my dad's titanium G4.
  • Reply 6 of 26
    ebbyebby Posts: 3,110member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by sunilraman

    What exactly is the fix? Is it a simple thing or something way complex?



    That's the thing. The manual says to apply, what the modder claims is, too much thermal grease to the heatsinks. If the Apple technician "fixes" the problem by following the manual, they will actually cause the problem again. It could simply be a typo, but the modder found that applying less thermal grease reduced heat buildup and therefore ran much cooler.
  • Reply 7 of 26
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    The link to Something Awful and the "heat issue" on MacbookPro is here

    http://forums.somethingawful.com/sho...readid=1864582
  • Reply 8 of 26
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    Definitely looks like wayyyyy too much thermal paste going on there...

    http://home.sc.rr.com/mixedbag/MBP/Photos.html
  • Reply 9 of 26
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    Originally posted by Ebby

    That's the thing. The manual says to apply, what the modder claims is, too much thermal grease to the heatsinks. If the Apple technician "fixes" the problem by following the manual, they will actually cause the problem again. It could simply be a typo, but the modder found that applying less thermal grease reduced heat buildup and therefore ran much cooler.






    Our modder (his handle is "fuckman" ) did the right and obvious thing. Why is there a big gob of thermal paste on both the heatsink AND the core die itself? The modder put thermal paste only on the die and not on the heatsink. It looks like the transfer of heat from the GPU and CPUs to the heatpipe is much more efficient now.



    Anyone with experience of PC overclocking and heatsinks and heatpaste and stuff *know* what the modder did makes sense. Apple recommending just a big gob of heatpaste on BOTH the heatsink and die is sheer madness.



    But taking apart your brand new Macbook Pro to do this mod would take quite a lot of courage/madness.



    What one needs is a friend that is an Apple Certified Technician. Or to pay an Apple Certified Technician to open up the Macbook Pro and do this mod so everything is covered under warranty ??
  • Reply 10 of 26
    elixirelixir Posts: 782member
    i dont see how apple could make such a mistake though? maybe there is something we dont know that the engineers do?





    if this is an actual problem apple should get fcking slammed for this.









    i experience some hotness sometimes, though i think my fans power up when they are supposed to...



    i just cant the difference between the hard drive spinning like crazy and the fans?



    can anyone help me with that?
  • Reply 11 of 26
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    Originally posted by Elixir

    i just cant the difference between the hard drive spinning like crazy and the fans?




    ummm... can you repeat the question? "i just cant the difference" doesn't make any sense.

    BTW are you experiencing "whining" issues
  • Reply 12 of 26
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    Originally posted by Elixir

    i dont see how apple could make such a mistake though? maybe there is something we dont know that the engineers do?






    the only reason i can see that they would purposely do that would be to reduce the fan blowing noise (less heat going to heat pipe = less fan spinning, more heat just dissipated through the laptop
  • Reply 13 of 26
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,870member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by slughead

    Can someone explain how it's wrong to show users a clip of an instruction manual on how to fix a problem with your computer?



    That's the thing: Apple's own manual is wrong. They are putting way too much thermal paste on the heat pipe/chip dice.



    I am dumbfounded that Apple could make a mistake like that. All of the wonderful engineering in the MacBook Pro, and they fuck up something as basic as thermal paste.



    Quote:

    Originally posted by sunilraman

    the only reason i can see that they would purposely do that would be to reduce the fan blowing noise (less heat going to heat pipe = less fan spinning, more heat just dissipated through the laptop



    Actually, if you apply the correct amount of thermal paste, whilst the fans do come on more often, they never get as fast (and therefore as loud) as when there is too much thermal paste.



    It seems that the temperature sensors that are used to decide whether the fans should come on or not are near the fans, not near the CPU. When you apply the paste properly (apply "the mod"), more heat is transferred to the heat pipe, and therefore the temperature near the fans increases (relative to "no mod"). If the temperature reaches a certain threshold (which will happen sooner with "the mod"), the fans come on, removing heat from the heat pipe, and lowering the temperature so the fans turn off. When the fans first come on, they come on at a low speed. Since "the mod" improves heat flow, even with the fans running at their lowest speed, the temperature will quickly start to reduce, so the fans never accelerate.



    In the "no mod" situation, heat is being transferred all over the place: into the PCB, the casing, the thermal grease and the heat pipe, and more of it is staying in the CPU. So it takes longer for the temperature at the fans to reach the "trigger point". But when the fan does turn on, it doesn't have such a great effect on the temperature (as heat transfer to the area where the fan is, is less efficient), and the fan has to accelerate (and therefore get noisier) to try and reduce temperatures.
  • Reply 14 of 26
    kreshkresh Posts: 379member
    Maybe they are trying to use thermal paste as a noise insulator to cut down on that horrid chip whine. j/k
  • Reply 15 of 26
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by sunilraman

    Definitely looks like wayyyyy too much thermal paste going on there...

    http://home.sc.rr.com/mixedbag/MBP/Photos.html




    Ouch. I can see puting a thin film on both of the mating surfaces, that's just overkill. If you apply too much paste and you get an insulation effect. My understanding is that most thermal paste is closer to air in thermal conductivity than you would find in metal. Put that much paste on, and I think you may as well mate the bare metal surface. That said, I think some might be needed for a small measure of shock dampening.
  • Reply 16 of 26
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,870member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by JeffDM

    My understanding is that most thermal paste is closer to air in thermal conductivity than you would find in metal.



    Thermal paste has significantly better heat conductivity than air (around 0.7 at worst for thermal paste (see here) and 0.026 for air (see here)). The reason that it is used, is that bare metal surfaces are not completely smooth, and not completely flat. At microscopic scales, metal surfaces have huge peaks and troughs. When you bring two surfaces into contact with one another, some parts will be in contact, but other parts will have air between them. Additionally, the surfaces can bend so that there are some parts of the surface that do not touch at all. The idea with thermal paste is to replace all the air in the areas where the metal surfaces do not touch, with paste. This vastly improves the heat transfer between the two surfaces.



    Quote:

    Originally posted by JeffDM

    Put that much paste on, and I think you may as well mate the bare metal surface.



    Actually, it's even worse than that. Put on too much paste, and it's worse than none. At least when you use none, there are some areas of each surface that touch each other. When you use too much, the surfaces are separated by either thermal paste or air* over their entire area.



    * Applying huge blobs of paste and then applying pressure can lead to the paste not spreading evenly, leaving some areas with no paste at all.



  • Reply 17 of 26
    slugheadslughead Posts: 1,169member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by sunilraman

    [i]the only reason i can see that they would purposely do that would be to reduce the fan blowing noise (less heat going to heat pipe = less fan spinning, more heat just dissipated through the laptop



    The excess paste isn't there on every computer, as the SA post said. It's probably some overzealous PRC laborers getting crazy with the thermal paste.
  • Reply 18 of 26
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    Originally posted by Mr. H

    ...I am dumbfounded that Apple could make a mistake like that. All of the wonderful engineering in the MacBook Pro, and they fuck up something as basic as thermal paste...






    All the PC overclockers will be totally laughing their asses off when seeing this. Not good PR for the Mac



    Although of course, PC overclockers are not exactly the target market for Macs, although you do get people that tinker with PCs and overclocking who also have Macs and they open up their Macs and mess around with it.



    .....................................



    Originally posted by Mr. H

    It seems that the temperature sensors that are used to decide whether the fans should come on or not are near the fans, not near the CPU. When you apply the paste properly (apply "the mod"), more heat is transferred to the heat pipe, and therefore the temperature near the fans increases (relative to "no mod"). If the temperature reaches a certain threshold (which will happen sooner with "the mod"), the fans come on, removing heat from the heat pipe, and lowering the temperature so the fans turn off. When the fans first come on, they come on at a low speed. Since "the mod" improves heat flow, even with the fans running at their lowest speed, the temperature will quickly start to reduce, so the fans never accelerate.






    Apparently there are CPU temperature sensors (accessible through downloading a kernel extension of something) and also there is clearly a temperature sensor on the heatpipe (can be seen in the pictures). Overall your theory on the "trigger points" for fan activation make sense. Given efficient transfer of heat to the heatpipes, the fans coming on and off blowing at lower speeds makes sense.
  • Reply 19 of 26
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    Originally posted by slughead

    The excess paste isn't there on every computer, as the SA post said. It's probably some overzealous PRC laborers getting crazy with the thermal paste.






    Heh... They were just doing their jobs to perfection, following the Apple manual which states to put a big ass gob of thermal paste there
  • Reply 20 of 26
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    Originally posted by Mr. H

    ...The reason that it [thermal paste] is used, is that bare metal surfaces are not completely smooth, and not completely flat. At microscopic scales, metal surfaces have huge peaks and troughs. When you bring two surfaces into contact with one another, some parts will be in contact, but other parts will have air between them...






    That's why you see hardcore PC overclockers talk about "lapping" the metal surfaces, with sandpaper as the basic tool and some other stuff I can't remember... so as to get the metal on the heatsink as smooth as possible. Then apply as thin and even as possible thermal paste on the CPU (not on the heatsink) using a credit card or something like that and clip down the heatsink onto the CPU die as firmly as possible.
Sign In or Register to comment.