Mac Pro - Major price drop?
Hello,
I remember that nearly three years ago now, I really wanted a Dual 2.0Ghz G5, but ended getting a 12" Powerbook instead, because of portability and price. However, from time to time I regret this decision, as while, despite the PB getting replaced under warranty for a model two revs later, it still feels like a dinosaur from a tech viewpoint (though it'll probably remain the best industrial design notebook for years to come). The G5 however would still be pretty current.
So, I really want to not make that 'mistake' again, and instead would like to get a tower to last me a long time. But looking at the current G5s, they are so expensive.
Comparing the 17" iMac to the base G5, it has an equivalent processor, same HD, same RAM, better GPU, a screen, wireless, isight, etc... - All for not much more than half the price of the G5.
Is this because of the increased price of many proprietary components, or just Apple profiteering?
The pricepoint of the low end Powermac (sorry - Mac Pro) is just about paletable, but it would have to blow away the high end iMac if it remains the same. So, do any of you see this happening, or is that just dreaming?
David.
I remember that nearly three years ago now, I really wanted a Dual 2.0Ghz G5, but ended getting a 12" Powerbook instead, because of portability and price. However, from time to time I regret this decision, as while, despite the PB getting replaced under warranty for a model two revs later, it still feels like a dinosaur from a tech viewpoint (though it'll probably remain the best industrial design notebook for years to come). The G5 however would still be pretty current.
So, I really want to not make that 'mistake' again, and instead would like to get a tower to last me a long time. But looking at the current G5s, they are so expensive.
Comparing the 17" iMac to the base G5, it has an equivalent processor, same HD, same RAM, better GPU, a screen, wireless, isight, etc... - All for not much more than half the price of the G5.
Is this because of the increased price of many proprietary components, or just Apple profiteering?
The pricepoint of the low end Powermac (sorry - Mac Pro) is just about paletable, but it would have to blow away the high end iMac if it remains the same. So, do any of you see this happening, or is that just dreaming?
David.
Comments
Originally posted by iMacfan
Hello,
I remember that nearly three years ago now, I really wanted a Dual 2.0Ghz G5, but ended getting a 12" Powerbook instead, because of portability and price. However, from time to time I regret this decision, as while, despite the PB getting replaced under warranty for a model two revs later, it still feels like a dinosaur from a tech viewpoint (though it'll probably remain the best industrial design notebook for years to come). The G5 however would still be pretty current.
So, I really want to not make that 'mistake' again, and instead would like to get a tower to last me a long time. But looking at the current G5s, they are so expensive.
Comparing the 17" iMac to the base G5, it has an equivalent processor, same HD, same RAM, better GPU, a screen, wireless, isight, etc... - All for not much more than half the price of the G5.
Is this because of the increased price of many proprietary components, or just Apple profiteering?
The pricepoint of the low end Powermac (sorry - Mac Pro) is just about paletable, but it would have to blow away the high end iMac if it remains the same. So, do any of you see this happening, or is that just dreaming?
David.
Apple's old (pre G5) entry price for the PowerMac was between $1499-$1699. Right now they start at $1999. I would hope that one of the goals in coming out with new MacPro's is getting the price back downt to the the G4 pricing, preferably the lower end of that. The reason that I say this is that not all Pro's need all out power, heck they don't even need all the expansion that the towers bring them. They do need large monitors, and as great as the iMac 20" many Pro's might find the 20" screen a bit restricting.
Also, Apple is going to want to try to push adoption of the new MacPros in industries that are currently buying G5's to hedge against the "long" transition that Apple outlined, and the late coming of Adobe to the UB programs. It now looks like Apple is going to be pretty much done with the transition in a little over a year in stead of the 2 years they previously suggested, and with Quark 7 UB coming out this summer Adobe is geting more pressure and a little more open about their UB offerings.
This all leads to Apple being in a situation where their professional customers may have reciently upgraded to G5's, so there not be much incentive for them to upgrade and they might be reluctant to do so due to cost and compatibility issues. If they could get the prices of the towers back down to $1499 then a company that was looking into getting 3 low end PowerMacs, reciently $1999 for G5's, could get 4 MacPro's for the same money. I think that they would be more inclined to make this transition with the lower price.
As to crowding out the iMac, I think that this was a worry a few years ago when Apple started selling LDC iMacs. However the price of LCD pannels has come down quite a bit in that time, and Apple does have some "Wiggle room" now. I believe that Apple could easily release an iMac version with a 17" wide screen, 1.66 Ghz Core Duo, 80 GB HD, integrated graphics, and if needed a Combo drive instead of the super drive and get the entry price down to $999 today. I would say get rid of the AirPort and BlueTooth as well, but that appears to be something that they want in all their computers right now, possibly hinting at future connected products?
The PowerMac (Mac Pro ?) SHOULD be upgraded to Intel before the end of the year, but no way to really know. That system should be a significant jump over the current G5... and be very useable for years. But i wouldn't expect it to be any cheaper than the current G5 PowerMacs... maybe even slightly more expensive.
Originally posted by KingOfSomewhereHot
Right now, I'd get an iMac over the PowerMac, unless you just need the expandability.
The PowerMac (Mac Pro ?) SHOULD be upgraded to Intel before the end of the year, but no way to really know. That system should be a significant jump over the current G5... and be very useable for years. But i wouldn't expect it to be any cheaper than the current G5 PowerMacs... maybe even slightly more expensive.
I would agree on the first, right now I'm finding it hard to keep my checkbook happy and not to go out and get a new 20" iMac. It's especially tough when my Mom just brought her G5 17" iMac up with her from Florida and hooked it up here while she is in town.
The second statement you made I'm not sure about. I don't see Apple trying to get prices down right now, and if that trend continues with the release of the MacPros then you are probably right. But then again, Apple is going to have a lot more chips available to them than they have had since before the G3 days. Given the variety of chips that they can release computers with, the competition and some of the factors that I mentioned above I thinkthat there is a good chance tha we may see a lower priced and "Lower" speced MacPo (or just a Mac?) that brings the lower-end price point for towers back down to at least $1699.
Originally posted by @homenow
I would agree on the first, right now I'm finding it hard to keep my checkbook happy and not to go out and get a new 20" iMac. It's especially tough when my Mom just brought her G5 17" iMac up with her from Florida and hooked it up here while she is in town.
The second statement you made I'm not sure about. I don't see Apple trying to get prices down right now, and if that trend continues with the release of the MacPros then you are probably right. But then again, Apple is going to have a lot more chips available to them than they have had since before the G3 days. Given the variety of chips that they can release computers with, the competition and some of the factors that I mentioned above I thinkthat there is a good chance tha we may see a lower priced and "Lower" speced MacPo (or just a Mac?) that brings the lower-end price point for towers back down to at least $1699.
think lower, oner CPU, 4 RAM slots, i HDd included, one HDD expansion bay, one optical drive, one empty 5/25 in front bay PCIE 16x graphics slot, 2 PCI-x slots, one PCI slot. Minimul RAM, cheap GPU, 100 gig HDD and superdrive for 1299...upgrade as you make the money to. then have the higher end stuff.
The really interesting thing will be to see if they are going to bring out a true workstation, that being multi graphics card slots, more than 2 HDDs with raid capability, shipped with more than 512 MB ram
Originally posted by KingOfSomewhereHot
Right now, I'd get an iMac over the PowerMac, unless you just need the expandability.
Of course - I'd never get the G5, as I have the powerbook to tide me over, and having an intel Mac is a vital part of being futureproof.
I really don't do anything that intensive - hell, most of the time it's just iTunes/Word Processing/Web/Email, but I've recently built a very cheap PC, and would like the expandability with the better OS.
David
Originally posted by a_greer
think lower, oner CPU, 4 RAM slots, i HDd included, one HDD expansion bay, one optical drive, one empty 5/25 in front bay PCIE 16x graphics slot, 2 PCI-x slots, one PCI slot. Minimul RAM, cheap GPU, 100 gig HDD and superdrive for 1299...upgrade as you make the money to. then have the higher end stuff.
The really interesting thing will be to see if they are going to bring out a true workstation, that being multi graphics card slots, more than 2 HDDs with raid capability, shipped with more than 512 MB ram
I doubt that we would see Apple going this low with the price of the Mac Pro, unless they are able to get the price of the iMac down to $999, which I think that they could do today but so far have not done. I think that $1499 is the lowest that we will see a MacPro and have reservations about even that. I think that the high end Mac Pro will be about as close to the workstation class as economics and processors allow. I don't see Apple introducing a MacPro that has a price much beyond$4000 becouse the market would be too small to make it worth while, especially if they needed a special motherboard to allow for the extra processors.
Originally posted by Placebo
Apple overpricing the Mac Pro will be more glaringly apparent than it ever was with the Powermacs, now that any half-intelligent computer shopper can go and see that Dell's Woodcrest-based workstations are the same damned components at 2/3 of the price.
I'm sure that apple will do something to set themselves apart. Such as using the watercooling from the G5 and overclocking the woodcrests. I guess we will see.
Originally posted by chris v
If the Mini & the Mac Book are any indicators, the price could go up. I wouldn't expect any significant price drop at all.
I wouldn't look at those two as indicators for the MacPro, the G5 entry is very high at $1999 for today's standards, and Apple really needs a more "Professional" computer at a lower price point than the $1299 17" iMac. I wouldn't be suprised if Apple didn't release a MacPro at a lower price, but I can't see them rising the entry price for the computer unless they were going to release a Mac as a replacement for the PowerMac and into a workstation class computer in the PowerMac range.
Originally posted by chris v
If the Mini & the Mac Book are any indicators, the price could go up. I wouldn't expect any significant price drop at all.
The MacBook and the Mini both saw huge improvements. Mac Pros really won't see that much extra stuff built in. iSight+Front Row+more RAM slots(Mini)/replaceable HDD(Macbook) are valid reasons to raise the price (or at least good excuses). An extra HDD slot isn't. Also, there is a lot more competition for the Mac Pro, because it's on the high-end, and has to compete seriously against Opterons and other Xeon boxes. Professionals (realizing they'll have to buy the upgraded versions to get UB anyways) could go for a Windows box or a Linux box if it's a lot faster/cheaper, whereas consumers buy Macs for the OS and the stability and iLife, not the MHz numbers.
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski
Professionals (realizing they'll have to buy the upgraded versions to get UB anyways) could go for a Windows box or a Linux box if it's a lot faster/cheaper, whereas consumers buy Macs for the OS and the stability and iLife, not the MHz numbers.
Hate to break it to you, but pros tend to use Macs for the OS also?
And wouldn't you need to actually purchase new versions of most apps when switching from Apple to Windows??!?
And would you want to go from a solid & secure Unix-based OS to a legacy code riddled security risk like Windows??!?
Sorry ZP, your arguments are weak?
I would think that the extra $$ (aka "Apple Tax") for a Macintosh far outweighs the few dollars saved on a Windows or Linux box?
Plus, between Boot Camp & Parallels, one could run all three OS on the same Apple box?!
Can you do that on any other companies box out there??!?
Nope, I didn't think so?!
Those who need the power & the security will stay with OS X, all other losers will move to Windows (only to come crawling back down the road, I am sure)?!
;^p
It's just a theory, but it's my reason to hope. I'm in no way trying to troll. I have an iBook, and want a Mac Pro, and definitely think the "Mac Tax" is worth it, but some people might not.
NO!
The MacBook Pros got MORE expensive
Entry Level
Mac mini solo
$499
ICS 1.67Ghz
60GB hard drive 512MB RAM
Combo Drive
AP, BT, GigE
Mac mini duo
$599
ICD 1.86Ghz
80GB hard drive 512MB of RAM
AP, BT and GigE
Midrange
iMac 17"
$999
ICD 2Ghz
128MB of Graphics
250GB hard drive with 1GB of RAM
AP, BT and GigE
iMac 20"
ICD 2.13
256MB of Graphics
500GB hard drive with 1GB of RAM
AP, BT and GigE
Workstation
Mac Pro 1.86
$1499
Conroe 1.86 Ghz
256MB PCI-Express Graphics
250GB hard drive with 1GB of RAM
Dual GigE
Mac Pro 2.4
$1899
Conroe 2.4 Ghz
256MB PCI-Express Graphics
500GB hard drive with 1GB of RAM
Dual GigE
Quads
Mac Pro DC 2.33
$2499
Woodcrest 2.4 Ghz x2
256MB PCI-Express Graphics
250GB hard drive with 1GB of RAM
Dual GigE
Mac Pro DC 2.66
$2999
Woodcrest 2.66 Ghz x2
256MB PCI-Express Graphics
500GB hard drive with 1GB of RAM
Dual GigE
Mac Pro DC 3.0
$3499
Woodcrest 3Ghz x2
256MB PCI-Express Graphics
500GB hard drive with 2GB of RAM
Dual GigE
That would round the line out. Apple could base the Edu Mac on a 17" or 20" imac with integrated graphics.
Mark my words, the replacement to the Power Mac will start in the $2100-$2500 range. Hell, maybe it'll feature downgraded graphics as well.
Originally posted by a_greer
think lower, oner CPU, 4 RAM slots, i HDd included, one HDD expansion bay, one optical drive, one empty 5/25 in front bay PCIE 16x graphics slot, 2 PCI-x slots, one PCI slot. Minimul RAM, cheap GPU, 100 gig HDD and superdrive for 1299...upgrade as you make the money to. then have the higher end stuff.
The really interesting thing will be to see if they are going to bring out a true workstation, that being multi graphics card slots, more than 2 HDDs with raid capability, shipped with more than 512 MB ram
That'd be great but I think any entry level Mac Pro would start 1699 if they were to lower prices.