Possibly. But this isn't selling iPods. There's a whole extra infrastructure needed for a phone company, even if they're MVNOing someone else's phone company.
Of course. And Virgin didn't have one either. But they are doing very well, at least here in the States.
I'm sure that if Apple wanted to do this, they could. They aren't a small, just barely making it, compamy any more.
Wu's right and has been told by Apple that it's ok to release this information.
Wu's right, Apple doesn't approve of the release of the news, and Wu's going to find it hard in the future to get the information he needs to accurately track the company.
Since I'm in the market for an Apple phone, i hope one of the latter two possibilities is accurate. But either way, this will be an interesting story in the business market.
All of these analysts poke around. In fact, it's not legal for companies to cut them out because of it. It's considerd to be a proper method of getting information for the public.
It's not complicated. It's one of the least complicated phones I've ever had. It's less complicated to use than a Nokia from 5-6 years ago.
Alright, I'll just tell you I've refused to buy a new phone for about 3-4 years now, opting to keep my old Samsung S105 I got from T-Mobile (it happens to be a tri-band, something American phone makers no longer offer as standard) until I find something better. I'm still waiting.
Quote:
No. I have three phones.
1) SE p910i - Everyday phone that does everything.
2) SE T610 - It's small. It fits in my trouser pocket without looking like I've a hard on.
You know, some girls are attracted to the whole big phone in pants look.
Quote:
3) Nokia 6310i - It's battery lasts about 3 weeks and I can treat it like shit as it's old. It's the one that gets bashed about in the bottom of my Camelback when out biking.
Replace those three phones with iPod, iPod Nano and iPod Shuffle and perhaps you'll have more of a clue.
Of course. And Virgin didn't have one either. But they are doing very well, at least here in the States.
Virgin Mobile have just been bought by NTL, a cable TV company, in the UK. They weren't doing very well here, falling way behind Vodafone, 3, O2, Orange, T-Mobile and dog knows how many others.
Virgin Mobile sold through hundreds of high street stores here and also through some supermarkets. There are 5 Apple stores in the UK last I checked. Apple have an antagonistic approach to other retailers here too. They still aren't shipping wireless Mighty Mouse to Apple dealers yet for instance. You can only buy it from Apple.
Apple would have to sell through other retailers if they wanted high street presence.
Virgin Mobile have just been bought by NTL, a cable TV company, in the UK. They weren't doing very well here, falling way behind Vodafone, 3, O2, Orange, T-Mobile and dog knows how many others.
Virgin Mobile sold through hundreds of high street stores here and also through some supermarkets. There are 5 Apple stores in the UK last I checked. Apple have an antagonistic approach to other retailers here too. They still aren't shipping wireless Mighty Mouse to Apple dealers yet for instance. You can only buy it from Apple.
Apple would have to sell through other retailers if they wanted high street presence.
Virgin is sold in Sprint stores all over the place, because they provide the network. They are also sold in independent stores, and over the internet.
That would be essencially the same way Apple would sell theirs. Sprint would likely provide the network. They are the biggest provider of this service to third party companies. Disney is now doing this too.
I don't see a problem here.
But, you know, we'll just have to wait.
Even if the phone IS ready, it doesn't mean Apple is ready to sell it.
You could use the scrollwheel to select letters, numbers, etc from a matrix on the screen. Easier than those two or three button combinations on most phones.
"Entering a number with Nokia7280 is a durable process and it's at least two-three times longer than for usual phones. The device is not very ergonomic in this parameter. I'd recommend to all the fashionable women to enter the contacts to the phone book first (that's better to do via a PC) and then searching for a contact and calling it will take less time."
"Comparing the way text is entered here with standard phones I'd like to say it is slow due to the absence of a keypad and using a circle selector is not a cure. And often entering 70 characters of SMS take about several minutes, that is long."
"The absence of a usual keypad is a disadvantage and the result is low speed of entering numbers and working with texts. That is partly liven down working with the phone book or when the number of incoming calls is much more than outgoing ones. The device is ideal as a second phone for a woman, but it won't be suitable for active work or those who consider themselves a business lady."
I've actually read even more scathing reviews about that input method; that is one of the milder ones I've seen.
it comes with SSH client, decent web browser, MSN messenger client (AIM or iChat is not good enough), etc.
It has 2mp or so camera
It has screen of greater than 320x240
I'm not being unreasonable in my demands here either. Nearly any modern Nokia will do all of the above. I see an Apple phone not allowing third party software, and that will lose them a sale I suspect, since I doubt they'll support ssh and MSN messenger by default. Lack of wifi could also be an issue.
Does that mean I'm out of the target demographic? Possibly. But the demographic I am in is pretty large and growing
it comes with SSH client, decent web browser, MSN messenger client (AIM or iChat is not good enough), etc.
It has 2mp or so camera
It has screen of greater than 320x240
I'm not being unreasonable in my demands here either. Nearly any modern Nokia will do all of the above. I see an Apple phone not allowing third party software, and that will lose them a sale I suspect, since I doubt they'll support ssh and MSN messenger by default. Lack of wifi could also be an issue.
Does that mean I'm out of the target demographic? Possibly. But the demographic I am in is pretty large and growing
Amorya
Yes, you're out of the target demographic (I think).
Maybe I am just dreaming here, but could it not be a Nano/phone with only voice activated everything? To add a contact, spell the name out loud, dictate the number and it's stored. Announce the name to make a call. When someone calls you, hit the 'Play' button to answer the call.
Text Messaging also by dictation preceded by saying "Send Text" or whatever?
Maybe I am just dreaming here, but could it not be a Nano/phone with only voice activated everything? To add a contact, spell the name out loud, dictate the number and it's stored. Announce the name to make a call. When someone calls you, hit the 'Play' button to answer the call.
Text Messaging also by dictation preceded by saying "Send Text" or whatever?
Or am I confusing iPhone with HAL?
Cheers
I think that would be a nightmare to use. On-Star vehicle system uses just a few words for navigation and 1/2 the time it gets it wrong. Voice reco sucks.
I think that would be a nightmare to use. On-Star vehicle system uses just a few words for navigation and 1/2 the time it gets it wrong. Voice reco sucks.
Yeah, but I thought with Apple designing the whole thing it would work better *wishful thinking *
it comes with SSH client, decent web browser, MSN messenger client (AIM or iChat is not good enough), etc.
It has 2mp or so camera
It has screen of greater than 320x240
I'm not being unreasonable in my demands here either. Nearly any modern Nokia will do all of the above. I see an Apple phone not allowing third party software, and that will lose them a sale I suspect, since I doubt they'll support ssh and MSN messenger by default. Lack of wifi could also be an issue.
Does that mean I'm out of the target demographic? Possibly. But the demographic I am in is pretty large and growing
"Entering a number with Nokia7280 is a durable process and it's at least two-three times longer than for usual phones. The device is not very ergonomic in this parameter. I'd recommend to all the fashionable women to enter the contacts to the phone book first (that's better to do via a PC) and then searching for a contact and calling it will take less time."
"Comparing the way text is entered here with standard phones I'd like to say it is slow due to the absence of a keypad and using a circle selector is not a cure. And often entering 70 characters of SMS take about several minutes, that is long."
"The absence of a usual keypad is a disadvantage and the result is low speed of entering numbers and working with texts. That is partly liven down working with the phone book or when the number of incoming calls is much more than outgoing ones. The device is ideal as a second phone for a woman, but it won't be suitable for active work or those who consider themselves a business lady."
I've actually read even more scathing reviews about that input method; that is one of the milder ones I've seen.
Amorya
That's because it's never been done correctly.
Just like our keyboards, the letters and numbers are arranged in a very inefficient pattern.
When I said "matrix" I meant that they would be arranged so that the most often used letters would be in the center of the matrix, with the least used ones at the edges. they would be arranged as a circle, so that the letters at the edges would be at the same distance from the center. Same thing for numbers. The numeric keypad works well for this reason. Most movement would be just three letters from the center, in any direction. You could do it with one hand.
The way it is now, you have to move much too far most of the time.
This isn't so difficult, but no one has been interested in trying anything other than the standard lines going abcdefghij etc.
Just learning the T9, ot other methods used is a chore. And if you don't use it all the time, you forget it anyway.
Besides texting is falling out of favor with younger people.
Maybe I am just dreaming here, but could it not be a Nano/phone with only voice activated everything? To add a contact, spell the name out loud, dictate the number and it's stored. Announce the name to make a call. When someone calls you, hit the 'Play' button to answer the call.
Text Messaging also by dictation preceded by saying "Send Text" or whatever?
Or am I confusing iPhone with HAL?
Cheers
I can do that, and a lot more with my Treo 700p. there are a couple pf programs that allow voice control, numerous methods of recording, etc. And you can use it on the 2Gb SD card. You can also use the phone as an external HD with it, and put all of the recordings on your computer, to use there.
But that's almost exactly the list of items every smartphone this year will have and that most smartphone users demand. Almost every Nokia S60 and Sony Ericsson UIQ phone this year will have all those features. All the HTC phones will. All the Palm phones will (if they're ever allowed back in to Europe). Some of the not-so-smart phones lower down the ranges have most of those features even.
If Apple are doing a 'smartphone' as Wu states, they'll be laughed out of town without those features, and that's just to catch up with what everybody else has already.
Just learning the T9, ot other methods used is a chore. And if you don't use it all the time, you forget it anyway.
Besides texting is falling out of favor with younger people.
The point being, T9 is well established and many people can type on it as quickly as a qwerty keyboard (also well established).
And where do you get the idea texting is falling out of favour?
It's even going up in America...
"After lagging behind Western Europe and Japan for years, Americans are finally getting into the habit of SMS. 48.7 billion SMS messages were sent in the last six months of 2005, an increase of 50 per cent from 32.5bn in the first six months of last year. About 40 per cent of the more than 200m mobile phone subscribers in the US now use text mes..."
But that's almost exactly the list of items every smartphone this year will have and that most smartphone users demand. Almost every Nokia S60 and Sony Ericsson UIQ phone this year will have all those features. All the HTC phones will. All the Palm phones will (if they're ever allowed back in to Europe). Some of the not-so-smart phones lower down the ranges have most of those features even.
If Apple are doing a 'smartphone' as Wu states, they'll be laughed out of town without those features, and that's just to catch up with what everybody else has already.
Since when has Apple been in the business of piling on features to be competitive, or to "catch up"?
You could just as easily make the argument that the iPod lacks a number of "critical" features that users "demand", such as recording, fm radio, flash card, etc.
Or that Apple's laptops fail to bristle with ports and slots and dedicated function keys. Or that the Front Row remote is pathetically underpowered compared to the massive button count of its Windows analogue. Or that the lack of a tablet cripples Apple's line up.
For a certain buyer these are all indeed deficiencies, but keeping it simple is pretty much what Apple is all about. In fact, it often seems the case that Apple achieves ease of use and elegance because they limit the function set, which is to say they have the design discipline to resist "competing" by simply piling on "features".
My guess is Apple will follow a similar design philosophy for an iPhone, focusing on ease of use and elegance within a limited function set. Do a few things, and do them really well.
And yes, I'm sure a certain number of buyers will "laugh it out of town", but there would be quite a few more people who find the merger of a Nano and a clean, well functioning phone with a killer interface to be just the thing.
And yes, I'm sure a certain number of buyers will "laugh it out of town", but there would be quite a few more people who find the merger of a Nano and a clean, well functioning phone with a killer interface to be just the thing.
And if so, that isn't a 'smartphone'.
If it's just a music phone, then it's up against phones that cost £30 on Pay-as-you-go contracts. Pretty much all ultra-low end phones will play mp3s now.
Comments
Possibly. But this isn't selling iPods. There's a whole extra infrastructure needed for a phone company, even if they're MVNOing someone else's phone company.
Of course. And Virgin didn't have one either. But they are doing very well, at least here in the States.
I'm sure that if Apple wanted to do this, they could. They aren't a small, just barely making it, compamy any more.
Three possibilities.
Wu's simply wrong.
Wu's right and has been told by Apple that it's ok to release this information.
Wu's right, Apple doesn't approve of the release of the news, and Wu's going to find it hard in the future to get the information he needs to accurately track the company.
Since I'm in the market for an Apple phone, i hope one of the latter two possibilities is accurate. But either way, this will be an interesting story in the business market.
All of these analysts poke around. In fact, it's not legal for companies to cut them out because of it. It's considerd to be a proper method of getting information for the public.
It's not complicated. It's one of the least complicated phones I've ever had. It's less complicated to use than a Nokia from 5-6 years ago.
Alright, I'll just tell you I've refused to buy a new phone for about 3-4 years now, opting to keep my old Samsung S105 I got from T-Mobile (it happens to be a tri-band, something American phone makers no longer offer as standard) until I find something better. I'm still waiting.
No. I have three phones.
1) SE p910i - Everyday phone that does everything.
2) SE T610 - It's small. It fits in my trouser pocket without looking like I've a hard on.
You know, some girls are attracted to the whole big phone in pants look.
3) Nokia 6310i - It's battery lasts about 3 weeks and I can treat it like shit as it's old. It's the one that gets bashed about in the bottom of my Camelback when out biking.
Replace those three phones with iPod, iPod Nano and iPod Shuffle and perhaps you'll have more of a clue.
I'd love to.
Of course. And Virgin didn't have one either. But they are doing very well, at least here in the States.
Virgin Mobile have just been bought by NTL, a cable TV company, in the UK. They weren't doing very well here, falling way behind Vodafone, 3, O2, Orange, T-Mobile and dog knows how many others.
Virgin Mobile sold through hundreds of high street stores here and also through some supermarkets. There are 5 Apple stores in the UK last I checked. Apple have an antagonistic approach to other retailers here too. They still aren't shipping wireless Mighty Mouse to Apple dealers yet for instance. You can only buy it from Apple.
Apple would have to sell through other retailers if they wanted high street presence.
You know, some girls are attracted to the whole big phone in pants look.
"Why do you have two big phones in your trousers? Oh
Virgin Mobile have just been bought by NTL, a cable TV company, in the UK. They weren't doing very well here, falling way behind Vodafone, 3, O2, Orange, T-Mobile and dog knows how many others.
Virgin Mobile sold through hundreds of high street stores here and also through some supermarkets. There are 5 Apple stores in the UK last I checked. Apple have an antagonistic approach to other retailers here too. They still aren't shipping wireless Mighty Mouse to Apple dealers yet for instance. You can only buy it from Apple.
Apple would have to sell through other retailers if they wanted high street presence.
Virgin is sold in Sprint stores all over the place, because they provide the network. They are also sold in independent stores, and over the internet.
That would be essencially the same way Apple would sell theirs. Sprint would likely provide the network. They are the biggest provider of this service to third party companies. Disney is now doing this too.
I don't see a problem here.
But, you know, we'll just have to wait.
Even if the phone IS ready, it doesn't mean Apple is ready to sell it.
You could use the scrollwheel to select letters, numbers, etc from a matrix on the screen. Easier than those two or three button combinations on most phones.
Been done
It sucked
"Entering a number with Nokia7280 is a durable process and it's at least two-three times longer than for usual phones. The device is not very ergonomic in this parameter. I'd recommend to all the fashionable women to enter the contacts to the phone book first (that's better to do via a PC) and then searching for a contact and calling it will take less time."
"Comparing the way text is entered here with standard phones I'd like to say it is slow due to the absence of a keypad and using a circle selector is not a cure. And often entering 70 characters of SMS take about several minutes, that is long."
"The absence of a usual keypad is a disadvantage and the result is low speed of entering numbers and working with texts. That is partly liven down working with the phone book or when the number of incoming calls is much more than outgoing ones. The device is ideal as a second phone for a woman, but it won't be suitable for active work or those who consider themselves a business lady."
I've actually read even more scathing reviews about that input method; that is one of the milder ones I've seen.
Amorya
- It has wifi and bluetooth
- I can load my own apps onto it, or...
- it comes with SSH client, decent web browser, MSN messenger client (AIM or iChat is not good enough), etc.
- It has 2mp or so camera
- It has screen of greater than 320x240
I'm not being unreasonable in my demands here either. Nearly any modern Nokia will do all of the above. I see an Apple phone not allowing third party software, and that will lose them a sale I suspect, since I doubt they'll support ssh and MSN messenger by default. Lack of wifi could also be an issue.Does that mean I'm out of the target demographic? Possibly. But the demographic I am in is pretty large and growing
Amorya
Regarding the iPhone, I think I'll pass. Unless:
- It has wifi and bluetooth
- I can load my own apps onto it, or...
- it comes with SSH client, decent web browser, MSN messenger client (AIM or iChat is not good enough), etc.
- It has 2mp or so camera
- It has screen of greater than 320x240
I'm not being unreasonable in my demands here either. Nearly any modern Nokia will do all of the above. I see an Apple phone not allowing third party software, and that will lose them a sale I suspect, since I doubt they'll support ssh and MSN messenger by default. Lack of wifi could also be an issue.Does that mean I'm out of the target demographic? Possibly. But the demographic I am in is pretty large and growing
Amorya
Yes, you're out of the target demographic (I think).
Text Messaging also by dictation preceded by saying "Send Text" or whatever?
Or am I confusing iPhone with HAL?
Cheers
Maybe I am just dreaming here, but could it not be a Nano/phone with only voice activated everything? To add a contact, spell the name out loud, dictate the number and it's stored. Announce the name to make a call. When someone calls you, hit the 'Play' button to answer the call.
Text Messaging also by dictation preceded by saying "Send Text" or whatever?
Or am I confusing iPhone with HAL?
Cheers
I think that would be a nightmare to use. On-Star vehicle system uses just a few words for navigation and 1/2 the time it gets it wrong. Voice reco sucks.
I think that would be a nightmare to use. On-Star vehicle system uses just a few words for navigation and 1/2 the time it gets it wrong. Voice reco sucks.
Yeah, but I thought with Apple designing the whole thing it would work better *wishful thinking *
Regarding the iPhone, I think I'll pass. Unless:
- It has wifi and bluetooth
- I can load my own apps onto it, or...
- it comes with SSH client, decent web browser, MSN messenger client (AIM or iChat is not good enough), etc.
- It has 2mp or so camera
- It has screen of greater than 320x240
I'm not being unreasonable in my demands here either. Nearly any modern Nokia will do all of the above. I see an Apple phone not allowing third party software, and that will lose them a sale I suspect, since I doubt they'll support ssh and MSN messenger by default. Lack of wifi could also be an issue.Does that mean I'm out of the target demographic? Possibly. But the demographic I am in is pretty large and growing
Amorya
You are out of the target demographic.
Been done
It sucked
"Entering a number with Nokia7280 is a durable process and it's at least two-three times longer than for usual phones. The device is not very ergonomic in this parameter. I'd recommend to all the fashionable women to enter the contacts to the phone book first (that's better to do via a PC) and then searching for a contact and calling it will take less time."
"Comparing the way text is entered here with standard phones I'd like to say it is slow due to the absence of a keypad and using a circle selector is not a cure. And often entering 70 characters of SMS take about several minutes, that is long."
"The absence of a usual keypad is a disadvantage and the result is low speed of entering numbers and working with texts. That is partly liven down working with the phone book or when the number of incoming calls is much more than outgoing ones. The device is ideal as a second phone for a woman, but it won't be suitable for active work or those who consider themselves a business lady."
I've actually read even more scathing reviews about that input method; that is one of the milder ones I've seen.
Amorya
That's because it's never been done correctly.
Just like our keyboards, the letters and numbers are arranged in a very inefficient pattern.
When I said "matrix" I meant that they would be arranged so that the most often used letters would be in the center of the matrix, with the least used ones at the edges. they would be arranged as a circle, so that the letters at the edges would be at the same distance from the center. Same thing for numbers. The numeric keypad works well for this reason. Most movement would be just three letters from the center, in any direction. You could do it with one hand.
The way it is now, you have to move much too far most of the time.
This isn't so difficult, but no one has been interested in trying anything other than the standard lines going abcdefghij etc.
Just learning the T9, ot other methods used is a chore. And if you don't use it all the time, you forget it anyway.
Besides texting is falling out of favor with younger people.
Maybe I am just dreaming here, but could it not be a Nano/phone with only voice activated everything? To add a contact, spell the name out loud, dictate the number and it's stored. Announce the name to make a call. When someone calls you, hit the 'Play' button to answer the call.
Text Messaging also by dictation preceded by saying "Send Text" or whatever?
Or am I confusing iPhone with HAL?
Cheers
I can do that, and a lot more with my Treo 700p. there are a couple pf programs that allow voice control, numerous methods of recording, etc. And you can use it on the 2Gb SD card. You can also use the phone as an external HD with it, and put all of the recordings on your computer, to use there.
http://www.palmgear.com/index.cfm?fu...&prodid=103548
I can't find the one right now that allows you to control functions with voice, but it's there somewhere. I don't remember the name right now.
You are out of the target demographic.
But that's almost exactly the list of items every smartphone this year will have and that most smartphone users demand. Almost every Nokia S60 and Sony Ericsson UIQ phone this year will have all those features. All the HTC phones will. All the Palm phones will (if they're ever allowed back in to Europe). Some of the not-so-smart phones lower down the ranges have most of those features even.
If Apple are doing a 'smartphone' as Wu states, they'll be laughed out of town without those features, and that's just to catch up with what everybody else has already.
Just learning the T9, ot other methods used is a chore. And if you don't use it all the time, you forget it anyway.
Besides texting is falling out of favor with younger people.
The point being, T9 is well established and many people can type on it as quickly as a qwerty keyboard (also well established).
And where do you get the idea texting is falling out of favour?
It's even going up in America...
"After lagging behind Western Europe and Japan for years, Americans are finally getting into the habit of SMS. 48.7 billion SMS messages were sent in the last six months of 2005, an increase of 50 per cent from 32.5bn in the first six months of last year. About 40 per cent of the more than 200m mobile phone subscribers in the US now use text mes..."
Source: http://www.mobileyouth.org/my_item/s...c_rise_america
But that's almost exactly the list of items every smartphone this year will have and that most smartphone users demand. Almost every Nokia S60 and Sony Ericsson UIQ phone this year will have all those features. All the HTC phones will. All the Palm phones will (if they're ever allowed back in to Europe). Some of the not-so-smart phones lower down the ranges have most of those features even.
If Apple are doing a 'smartphone' as Wu states, they'll be laughed out of town without those features, and that's just to catch up with what everybody else has already.
Since when has Apple been in the business of piling on features to be competitive, or to "catch up"?
You could just as easily make the argument that the iPod lacks a number of "critical" features that users "demand", such as recording, fm radio, flash card, etc.
Or that Apple's laptops fail to bristle with ports and slots and dedicated function keys. Or that the Front Row remote is pathetically underpowered compared to the massive button count of its Windows analogue. Or that the lack of a tablet cripples Apple's line up.
For a certain buyer these are all indeed deficiencies, but keeping it simple is pretty much what Apple is all about. In fact, it often seems the case that Apple achieves ease of use and elegance because they limit the function set, which is to say they have the design discipline to resist "competing" by simply piling on "features".
My guess is Apple will follow a similar design philosophy for an iPhone, focusing on ease of use and elegance within a limited function set. Do a few things, and do them really well.
And yes, I'm sure a certain number of buyers will "laugh it out of town", but there would be quite a few more people who find the merger of a Nano and a clean, well functioning phone with a killer interface to be just the thing.
And yes, I'm sure a certain number of buyers will "laugh it out of town", but there would be quite a few more people who find the merger of a Nano and a clean, well functioning phone with a killer interface to be just the thing.
And if so, that isn't a 'smartphone'.
If it's just a music phone, then it's up against phones that cost £30 on Pay-as-you-go contracts. Pretty much all ultra-low end phones will play mp3s now.
See http://www.vodafonebusinessshop.co.u....1&prodid=2869
Rumoured to be the Treo 750 with Windows Mobile.
Available Sept 12th
Previously they were banned due to containing dangerous substances banned in Europe.