methods of Propoganda and spin

Posted:
in AppleOutsider edited January 2014
A great read to see how easily the western world has been brainwashed.



http://www.thedoctorwithin.com/index...perception.php
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 44
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Well yes, once the science of spin arose, it simply took the place of the previous king, religious organizations.



    One would have hoped that things would improve, but...
  • Reply 2 of 44
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    Haha, well, the list of myths that this anti-science web page provides contains many statements that are factual, and many more that are probable or at the least debatable. Many others, like "pharmaceuticals restore health" are just too vague to even address. I've bolded the ones that I think are factual, and italicized the ones that I believe are probable or debatable.



    Pharmaceuticals restore health

    Vaccination brings immunity

    The cure for cancer is just around the corner

    Menopause is a disease condition

    When a child is sick, he needs immediate antibiotics

    When a child has a fever he needs Tylenol

    Hospitals are safe and clean.

    America has the best health care in the world.

    Americans have the best health in the world.

    Milk is a good source of calcium.

    You never outgrow your need for milk.

    Vitamin C is ascorbic acid.

    Aspirin prevents heart attacks.

    Heart drugs improve the heart.

    Back and neck pain are the only reasons for spinal adjustment.

    No child can get into school without being vaccinated.

    The FDA thoroughly tests all drugs before they go on the market.

    Pregnancy is a serious medical condition

    Infancy is a serious medical condition

    Chemotherapy and radiation are effective cures for cancer

    When your child is diagnosed with an ear infection, antibiotics should be given immediately 'just in case'

    Ear tubes are for the good of the child.

    Estrogen drugs prevent osteoporosis after menopause.

    Pediatricians are the most highly trained of al medical specialists.

    The purpose of the health care industry is health.

    HIV is the cause of AIDS.

    AZT is the cure.

    Without vaccines, infectious diseases will return

    Fluoride in the city water protects your teeth

    Flu shots prevent the flu.

    Vaccines are thoroughly tested before being placed on the Mandated Schedule.

    Doctors are certain that the benefits of vaccines far outweigh any possible risks.

    There is a terrorist threat in the US.

    There is a bioterrorist threat in the US.

    The NASDAQ is a natural market controlled by supply and demand.

    Chronic pain is a natural consequence of aging.

    Soy is your healthiest source of protein.

    Insulin shots cure diabetes.

    After we take out your gall bladder you can eat anything you want

    Allergy medicine will cure allergies.

    An airliner can be flown with professional precision by a group of crazed amateurs into a 100-storey building and can cause that building to collapse on its own footprint. Twice.

    The Iraqis blew up the World Trade Center.
  • Reply 3 of 44
    Retarded.
  • Reply 4 of 44
    marcukmarcuk Posts: 4,442member
    so who got as far as Edward Bernays?



    no-one, lame, well as you're all showing the attention span of 5 year olds, i'll just give you the funny video.



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzaqXFcsH2U
  • Reply 5 of 44
    placeboplacebo Posts: 5,767member
    That's a pretty dumb site.
  • Reply 6 of 44
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Quote:

    Let's say you're in a crowded cafeteria, and you buy a cup of tea. And as you're about to sit down you see your friend way across the room. So you put the tea down and walk across the room and talk to your friend for a few minutes. Now, coming back to your tea, are you just going to pick it up and drink it? Remember, this is a crowded place and you've just left your tea unattended for several minutes. You've given anybody in that room access to your tea.



    Why should your mind be any different?



    Because fear and paranoia is not the answer to anything.
  • Reply 7 of 44
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chucker


    Because fear and paranoia is not the answer to anything.



    I agree. Paranoia is dumb, and the people that perpetuate it are dumb. I received an email from a female friend all about the precautions that one should take to avoid being kidnapped and raped. I couldn't believe some of the advice it gave. I anyone would like me to post it hear or email it to them I would be glad to. It's a good laugh, and yet scary at the same time.
  • Reply 8 of 44
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MarcUK


    so who got as far as Edward Bernays?



    no-one, lame, well as you're all showing the attention span of 5 year olds, i'll just give you the funny video.



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzaqXFcsH2U



    Sorry, read the whole thing, still not seeing anything spectacularly new or interesting in there.



    People in position of power have *always* used propaganda and lies to influence the masses. Period. End of story.



    And, given that the piece was so *incredibly* poorly referenced, with assertions made without citations to back them up...



    ...how certain are you that you haven't swallowed a big chunk of propaganda?
  • Reply 9 of 44
    powerdocpowerdoc Posts: 8,123member
    I am not an expert in all fields but I will try to give my own personal advice on some subjects :



    Pharmaceuticals restore health (overall it's true)

    Vaccination brings immunity (it bring for most people (% depending of the type of vaccination), a particular immunity for the particular disease)

    The cure for cancer is just around the corner (no it is not, but many cancers have a chance to be cured today)

    Menopause is a disease condition (it's not, it's physiological, but it do noes bring any good)

    When a child is sick, he needs immediate antibiotics (who said that ? )

    When a child has a fever he needs Tylenol (don't know that one, probabily an US thing)

    Hospitals are safe and clean. (overall they are, but there is always exceptions, but it's more accurate to say that hospiital are safe and clean than the contrary)

    America has the best health care in the world. (it's not for every US people, but who claim it is ? )

    Americans have the best health in the world. (can't reply for that one, but sure it's one of the best)

    Milk is a good source of calcium. (cheese is better, but that's right)

    You never outgrow your need for milk.

    Vitamin C is ascorbic acid.(yes it is !)

    Aspirin prevents heart attacks. (in a certain way, yes, all people with stents are under aspirin or alike)

    Heart drugs improve the heart. (if not they are useless drugs aren't they ? )

    Back and neck pain are the only reasons for spinal adjustment.

    No child can get into school without being vaccinated.(It depend on the countrie)

    The FDA thoroughly tests all drugs before they go on the market. (yes)

    Pregnancy is a serious medical condition (no)

    Infancy is a serious medical condition (no)

    Chemotherapy and radiation are effective cures for cancer (yes, but it's not a cakewalk) Explain that it's not effective to one of my best friend.Without chemotherapy his son will be dead now.

    When your child is diagnosed with an ear infection, antibiotics should be given immediately 'just in case' it's a real bacterial infection, it's mandatory. For virus it does not help

    Ear tubes are for the good of the child. No ear tubes are just a punishment

    Estrogen drugs prevent osteoporosis after menopause. It certainly help

    Pediatricians are the most highly trained of al medical specialists. No, but you should ask the advice of the pediatricians on that one.

    The purpose of the health care industry is health. No it's to stole our money

    HIV is the cause of AIDS. If you disagree, I can inoculate you the HIV free of charge ...

    AZT is the cure. There is many others cures

    Without vaccines, infectious diseases will return . Those who say the contrary are criminals in my book : luckily they are not in charge of our health

    Fluoride in the city water protects your teeth : it's true (but it's forbidden in France)

    Flu shots prevent the flu.(not always, but I always do my flu shot)

    Vaccines are thoroughly tested before being placed on the Mandated Schedule. no they are never tested : what a waste of time

    Doctors are certain that the benefits of vaccines far outweigh any possible risks. Yes

    There is a terrorist threat in the US. Of course, like in any other countrie.

    There is a bioterrorist threat in the US. It's mostly possible

    The NASDAQ is a natural market controlled by supply and demand. I don't know what mean natural

    Chronic pain is a natural consequence of aging. It's not natural, but most aged people have chronic pain unfortunately

    Soy is your healthiest source of protein.

    Insulin shots cure diabetes. It do not cure diabete, but it allow you to survive

    After we take out your gall bladder you can eat anything you want (don't know what a gall blader is)

    Allergy medicine will cure allergies. Not always unfortunately, but sometimes it do (especially if you are allergic to only one thing)

    An airliner can be flown with professional precision by a group of crazed amateurs into a 100-storey building and can cause that building to collapse on its own footprint. Twice. This nice complot theory

    The Iraqis blew up the World Trade Center. Officialy in US, it's not any more the case



    My question is : who is the spin doctor here ?
  • Reply 10 of 44
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BRussell


    I've bolded the ones that I think are factual, and italicized the ones that I believe are probable or debatable.



    Strange - the bolded ones are exactly the ones I'd outline as having been obviously most subject to spin and distortion....
  • Reply 11 of 44
    That's funny, because they're the ones backed up by scientific evidence.
  • Reply 12 of 44
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hardeeharhar


    That's funny, because they're the ones backed up by scientific evidence.



    Yes - I think the two things are related...
  • Reply 13 of 44
    Sorry to say this: but you are an idiot then.
  • Reply 14 of 44
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hardeeharhar


    Sorry to say this: but you are an idiot then.



    I work at it....
  • Reply 15 of 44
    Propaganda is far more subtle to pick up for most people because when we agree with something, we think it's automatically true.



    Any time news is delivered with some sort of analysis, it's propaganda. Those who claim to be "objective" journalists, for instance, fail to acknowledge that every human communication, including their "news" is laden with value judgments about what to include, what to exclude, and how to present the information. Conscious or unconscious, we all speak with some sort of agenda; most of the time, it's benign, sometimes not. Because of this, people need to listen to the news with a critical ear-- and take into account whether the news professors let you know where they stand and that they have an angle. Think of people who speak and raise controversy-- Rush Limbaugh, Jesse Jackson... You may not agree with them, but you know where they stand because they acknowledge it. You then listen accordingly. But someone like Brian Williams from NBC or Dan Rather-- who appeared objective to so many until he had to resign for being a bit too over-eager to present information that was entirely fabricated, and unchecked-- many people just accept that these guys are speaking the "truth," when their biases are just a bit more polished and subtle.
  • Reply 16 of 44
    chuckerchucker Posts: 5,089member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ricksbrain


    Any time news is delivered with some sort of analysis, it's propaganda.



    Wow. \



    So whenever someone gives you their opinion, they're propagandistic?
  • Reply 17 of 44
    shetlineshetline Posts: 4,695member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ricksbrain


    Any time news is delivered with some sort of analysis, it's propaganda.



    I'd say more often than not, it's a lack of analysis that turns news into proganda. One side's "talking points" (usually the Republicans these days) get reported in the news either unchallenged ("Today the President said..."), or, at best, we get counterpoint in he said/she said fashion, pitting one talking point against another but never delving at all into whose BS stinks more when you examine the facts.



    When what one side says is more logically sound or better in line with the facts than another side in the general public debate, it's a false neutrality and a disengenuous "objectivity" to simply pit sound-bite length talking points against one another without any commentary about the accuracy or soundness of what's being said.



    This kind of false neutrality lets the better propagandist, and the side who gets the most air time for their slant on things, win.
  • Reply 18 of 44
    Yes. Any opinion is propaganda. That doesn't mean it's wrong, though. If someone makes decisions about what others should hear, it's a version of the truth, only. If someone doesn't acknowledge that, they may be selling you a bridge.



    If you think one "side" or the other has a stronger hold on delivering the news of the day, you're falling victim to your own perspective. Again, because you agree with something, it must be right... right? Socrates. The Church. Gallileo. Newton. Hawkings. Your political leader du jour. Your friend. Your desires? Your conscience? Strong opinions, lots of evidence, much disagreement. None of them 100% right, most likely.





    In another few years, much of what people believe will be "proven" wrong according to new standards of "truth," only to be proven wrong again in a few more years. Since the truth doesn't really change, it must be our perspectives that do. Humans are limited by their perceptions, so for us to judge the truth is ridiculous; we see what we know. For the rest, we make up stories. So here we are, back to propaganda. Information that backs the truth we want, not necessarily what is.



    The truth is the sum of all things. If someone tries to sell the truth as anything less, it's propaganda.
  • Reply 19 of 44
    marcukmarcuk Posts: 4,442member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hardeeharhar


    That's funny, because they're the ones backed up by scientific evidence.



    the only one of those I'd agree with is hiv causes aids, the rest simply aren't true.
  • Reply 20 of 44
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Prove it.



    Great thing about science, you can provide evidence.
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