DON'T USE NORTON UTILITIES. I've read reports of it really screwing up systems with 10.2 installed. Norton always seems to be "behind the curve" with its software. There were oodles of problems caused by Norton software when OSX came out. I suspect an update will be out in a month to get it working properly again. Norton may be a good utility for Windows machines, but no longer is it for Macs.
I've heard that Drive 10 works okay but is rather limited in its abilities, especially for its price.
The one I've had most success with and read the most praise about is <a href="http://www.alsoft.com/"; target="_blank">Alsoft's Disk Warrior</a>. It runs from OS9, but that's no problem since it has to boot off of its own CD anyway. I've had drives that I thought could *never* be salvaged that neither Apple nor Norton software could even see. Sure enough, Disk Warrior worked like a champ and brought most everything back together.
edit: I should note that I use these kinds of tools only when there is really severe damage. Most of the time, a simple "fsck -y" from the single-user mode prompt fixes the disk if funny things start happening. You shouldn't have to optimize or use disk repair utilities very frequently. If you do, there must be something far more problematic with your system.
Actually, Norton is the *only* program to use with OS X right now. I've heard that DiskWarrior is being updated, but that isn't out yet.
You must have Norton Utilities 7.0 to work with OS X, and an updater to make it fully compatible with 10.2. The only time I've seen Norton hose a HD is when someone tried to use an older version on an OS X system.
I used Drive 10 to retrieve a drive that the apple software couldn't see. I moved from Norton years ago. I don't find Drive10 limited at all. I'm looking for some data on that one. What exactly does Norton have that Drive 10 doesn't?
<strong>Actually, Norton is the *only* program to use with OS X right now. I've heard that DiskWarrior is being updated, but that isn't out yet.</strong><hr></blockquote>No, DiskWarrior DOES work on drives with Mac OS X 10.2. Alsoft clearly says so on its <a href="http://www.alsoft.com/DiskWarrior/index.html"; target="_blank">website</a>. See?
[quote]Mac OS X Compatibility (including 10.2)
DiskWarrior is compatible with Mac OS X Extended disks, and even repairs problems found only on this type of disk. It also repairs disks containing both Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X. In order to rebuild any disk (including your Mac OS X startup disk), you must start your computer from a Mac OS 9.x disk such as the DiskWarrior CD.<hr></blockquote>The point that it only *runs* in Mac OS 9 is irrelevant because you have to restart from another drive (or preferably the CD it comes on) if you are going to repair anything at all.
And, yes, I have read reports of the latest version of Norton Utilities hosing systems with 10.2. YMMV, but do consider yourself warned.
DiskWarrior 3 with PlusOptimizer, and Data Rescue from ProSoft should be all you need. Anything else means you need DriveSavers because it's hardware. Norton SUCKS.
re: norton - no disk utility should have to install kext's (the os x equivalent of system extensions) in order to verify your disk. it's like they're trying to crank system stability back to os 9 levels. bad, bad, bad... even macworld says its bad, and they blindly love norton no matter what, so you know it can't be good.
drive 10 was released way too early (which is funny, because they ANNOUNCED it a year before it was ready...). it is finally now a usable disk utility program, but the champe for fixing dead hard disk is STILL...
alsoft's diskwarrior. i too have had disks that no other utility could fix, but disk warrior somehow brought it back from the grave. sure, it boots from os 9 on the cd, but who the hell cares?!? i don't care if it boots into os 6.1 as long as it gets my system back up and running.
Even I have it I NEVER install in on my machine. Due to the reason like other fellows have mentioned. Kernel extenstion for X and junk extensions for 9. I always keep my systems (both X and 9) very clean and I don't want anything to mess up my system.
I only run Norton from the boot CD. That's it.
Honestly I don't like Norton. But I got the CD for free so I can't complain too much
Diskwarrior What is new in DiskWarrior 3?</strong><hr></blockquote>
yes, the good old days.. still works (and is fast, too) on my mac se at home.
diskwarrior 3 has yet to come out. i think alsoft has not gotten around to it since all powermacs can still boot into os 9 (well, until january, anyway), and you have to boot from the cd to repair damage. they may be trying to develop an os-x version fo their diskwarrior extension, which protected against directory damage (though they would have to make it a background app, i guess...).
you know it's got to be good, since even norton has licensed a slimmed-down "rescue version" of diskwarrior and placed it on all of the first systemworks 2 cd's (when they were still only os 9).
here's another vote for Disk Warrior. Excellent software. As far as Norton, I found out that one of the problems is that Norton is, by default, set to check for filenames witha period in front of them. If you tell Norton to fix all problems automatically, it will remove the periods from in front of the names and hose OS X. The period thing is sort of a holdover from OS 9. The solution is to tell it not to check for periods in front of filenames. I found that when I turned that option off, Norton worked ok with OS X.
[quote]<strong>Why is it that whenever this topic comes up it begins to degenerate to the point that the thread sounds like a bunch of audiophiles discussing cables?</strong><hr></blockquote>I'm not sure what you mean by this. Aside from giving personal experiences, how do you expect us to give advice?
I haven't seen any bickering here; so, I don't see why you claim the thread is degenerating. It sounds to me like the overwhelming consensus is that Norton has a bad record and Alsoft DiskWarrior a good record. [quote]<strong>Why should a low-level disk utility care what OS version it is dealing with? Why should a disk repair program *ever* cause damage?</strong><hr></blockquote>Bingo! Give this man a cigar! You are exactly right. It should NOT matter. That's why DiskWarrior has proven so good: because it works on all systems dating back to System 7 up through Mac OS X 10.2. Conversely, that's also why so many people have a bad impression of Norton: because it can seriously screw up your drive if you update the system. [quote]<strong>What do these programs claim to be doing? Why and when are they necessary?</strong><hr></blockquote>Well, There are certain key structures on your drive that store fire size, number of files, file locations, directory structures, etc. that can become damaged if your computer crashes and data is incorrectly written to the drive. A filesystem is an extremely complex collection of data. Tools like DiskWarrior are not necessary for day-to-day use. Most basic damage to the filesystem can be repaired by Apple's own "fsck -y" tool or Disk Utility. If your disk is extensively damaged, though, you'll need a more powerful tool that will perform a lot more checks and repairs. [quote]<strong>And why are there no open-source alternatives if they are so necessary for system administration?</strong><hr></blockquote>Why? Because this is a very difficult thing to do. Sure, now that Mac OS X is attracting a larger open-source *nix crowd, some people might be interested in making a new tool, but the simple fact remains that right now there just aren't enough people interested and devoted to open source that also have the technical expertise of working on such a very low level with Apple's Extended Hierarchical File System.
Comments
I've heard that Drive 10 works okay but is rather limited in its abilities, especially for its price.
The one I've had most success with and read the most praise about is <a href="http://www.alsoft.com/"; target="_blank">Alsoft's Disk Warrior</a>. It runs from OS9, but that's no problem since it has to boot off of its own CD anyway. I've had drives that I thought could *never* be salvaged that neither Apple nor Norton software could even see. Sure enough, Disk Warrior worked like a champ and brought most everything back together.
edit: I should note that I use these kinds of tools only when there is really severe damage. Most of the time, a simple "fsck -y" from the single-user mode prompt fixes the disk if funny things start happening. You shouldn't have to optimize or use disk repair utilities very frequently. If you do, there must be something far more problematic with your system.
[ 09-20-2002: Message edited by: Brad ]</p>
You must have Norton Utilities 7.0 to work with OS X, and an updater to make it fully compatible with 10.2. The only time I've seen Norton hose a HD is when someone tried to use an older version on an OS X system.
[ 09-21-2002: Message edited by: norfa ]</p>
<strong>Actually, Norton is the *only* program to use with OS X right now. I've heard that DiskWarrior is being updated, but that isn't out yet.</strong><hr></blockquote>No, DiskWarrior DOES work on drives with Mac OS X 10.2. Alsoft clearly says so on its <a href="http://www.alsoft.com/DiskWarrior/index.html"; target="_blank">website</a>. See?
[quote]Mac OS X Compatibility (including 10.2)
DiskWarrior is compatible with Mac OS X Extended disks, and even repairs problems found only on this type of disk. It also repairs disks containing both Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X. In order to rebuild any disk (including your Mac OS X startup disk), you must start your computer from a Mac OS 9.x disk such as the DiskWarrior CD.<hr></blockquote>The point that it only *runs* in Mac OS 9 is irrelevant because you have to restart from another drive (or preferably the CD it comes on) if you are going to repair anything at all.
And, yes, I have read reports of the latest version of Norton Utilities hosing systems with 10.2. YMMV, but do consider yourself warned.
drive 10 was released way too early (which is funny, because they ANNOUNCED it a year before it was ready...). it is finally now a usable disk utility program, but the champe for fixing dead hard disk is STILL...
alsoft's diskwarrior. i too have had disks that no other utility could fix, but disk warrior somehow brought it back from the grave. sure, it boots from os 9 on the cd, but who the hell cares?!? i don't care if it boots into os 6.1 as long as it gets my system back up and running.
Even I have it I NEVER install in on my machine. Due to the reason like other fellows have mentioned. Kernel extenstion for X and junk extensions for 9. I always keep my systems (both X and 9) very clean and I don't want anything to mess up my system.
I only run Norton from the boot CD. That's it.
Honestly I don't like Norton. But I got the CD for free so I can't complain too much
[ 09-22-2002: Message edited by: Leonis ]</p>
Diskwarrior
<strong>There was a System 6.1!? :eek:
Diskwarrior
yes, the good old days.. still works (and is fast, too) on my mac se at home.
diskwarrior 3 has yet to come out. i think alsoft has not gotten around to it since all powermacs can still boot into os 9 (well, until january, anyway), and you have to boot from the cd to repair damage. they may be trying to develop an os-x version fo their diskwarrior extension, which protected against directory damage (though they would have to make it a background app, i guess...).
you know it's got to be good, since even norton has licensed a slimmed-down "rescue version" of diskwarrior and placed it on all of the first systemworks 2 cd's (when they were still only os 9).
[ 09-23-2002: Message edited by: Brad ]</p>
So what's new in DiskWarrior 3?
I haven't seen any bickering here; so, I don't see why you claim the thread is degenerating. It sounds to me like the overwhelming consensus is that Norton has a bad record and Alsoft DiskWarrior a good record. [quote]<strong>Why should a low-level disk utility care what OS version it is dealing with? Why should a disk repair program *ever* cause damage?</strong><hr></blockquote>Bingo! Give this man a cigar! You are exactly right. It should NOT matter. That's why DiskWarrior has proven so good: because it works on all systems dating back to System 7 up through Mac OS X 10.2. Conversely, that's also why so many people have a bad impression of Norton: because it can seriously screw up your drive if you update the system. [quote]<strong>What do these programs claim to be doing? Why and when are they necessary?</strong><hr></blockquote>Well, There are certain key structures on your drive that store fire size, number of files, file locations, directory structures, etc. that can become damaged if your computer crashes and data is incorrectly written to the drive. A filesystem is an extremely complex collection of data. Tools like DiskWarrior are not necessary for day-to-day use. Most basic damage to the filesystem can be repaired by Apple's own "fsck -y" tool or Disk Utility. If your disk is extensively damaged, though, you'll need a more powerful tool that will perform a lot more checks and repairs. [quote]<strong>And why are there no open-source alternatives if they are so necessary for system administration?</strong><hr></blockquote>Why? Because this is a very difficult thing to do. Sure, now that Mac OS X is attracting a larger open-source *nix crowd, some people might be interested in making a new tool, but the simple fact remains that right now there just aren't enough people interested and devoted to open source that also have the technical expertise of working on such a very low level with Apple's Extended Hierarchical File System.
[ 09-24-2002: Message edited by: Brad ]</p>
<strong>Whoa... where's Mr Fox's post go?
Is it possible that you edited it rather than replying to it? <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
[ 09-24-2002: Message edited by: RodUK ]</p>