Time Warner to announce dual-format DVDs next week

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070104/...arner_dvd_dc_1



NEW YORK (Reuters) - Time Warner Inc. (NYSE:TWX - news) will unveil a new high-definition DVD next week that could end the battle between two next-generation videodisc technologies.



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Warner Bros., a movie studio division of the world's largest media company, plans to present the new disc, Total HD, at the annual Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas.



Total HD movies will carry movies that can be played on high-definition DVD players that use technology backed by Sony Corp.'s (6758.T) Blu-ray format, as well as players using Toshiba Corp.-backed (6502.T) HD-DVD format.



The competing formats have been blamed for hindering sales of high-definition movies and players, with consumers recalling the bruising war between Sony Corp.'s (6758.T)(NYSE:SNE - news) Betamax videotape and JVC's VHS version. JVC is owned by Matsushita Electric Industrial Co. Ltd. (6752.T)



Blu-ray and HD-DVD offer crisper pictures and better audio.



The DVD format battle has split the film industry, although some studios, including Warner Bros., currently offer movies on both.



Others, such as NBC Universal's Universal Studios only sell high definition movies on HD-DVD. NBC Universal is a unit of General Electric Co. (NYSE:GE - news)



Very nice! Should get the greedy companies in check..8)
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 25
    jvbjvb Posts: 210member
    So basically either format will work on these new discs? What Hi-Def players will be able to play them?
  • Reply 2 of 25
    marzetta7marzetta7 Posts: 1,323member
    This is well covered in the Blu-ray vs. HD DVD thread.



    Frankly, I think it's not such a good idea.
  • Reply 3 of 25
    jvbjvb Posts: 210member
    Doesn't this have the potential to split the HD market even further? So now there will be three different sides: HD-DVD, Blu-ray, and Hybrid? Talk about a messed up system.
  • Reply 4 of 25
    onlookeronlooker Posts: 5,252member
    There is also a Dual format player being announced by LG that will play both Blu-R, and HD-D next week. I think both of these ideas were inevitable. I still prefer the larger capacity of Blu-Ray.
  • Reply 5 of 25
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,419member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jvb View Post


    Doesn't this have the potential to split the HD market even further? So now there will be three different sides: HD-DVD, Blu-ray, and Hybrid? Talk about a messed up system.





    Not at all. Warner is trying to prevent the problem of studios being stuck maintaining two seperate SKU for the same HD movies. Studios hate this and so do retailers. Now imagine if you can ship a single disc that plays in both players. Imagine the savings in marketing materials and shelf space.



    As long as the discs perform like they should and the costs can be kept reasonable Warner could have a hit for studios that are neutral or contemplating a move to neutrality. Frankly it's good for the consumer but it is also good for Studios/Retailer/Rentals



    Combine these discs and the Universal players and the format war is over for all intents and purposes. Each side has hybrid format that allows them to protect their investment.
  • Reply 6 of 25
    jvbjvb Posts: 210member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Not at all. Warner is trying to prevent the problem of studios being stuck maintaining two seperate SKU for the same HD movies. Studios hate this and so do retailers. Now imagine if you can ship a single disc that plays in both players. Imagine the savings in marketing materials and shelf space.



    As long as the discs perform like they should and the costs can be kept reasonable Warner could have a hit for studios that are neutral or contemplating a move to neutrality. Frankly it's good for the consumer but it is also good for Studios/Retailer/Rentals



    Combine these discs and the Universal players and the format war is over for all intents and purposes. Each side has hybrid format that allows them to protect their investment.



    Sweet, maybe finally these new formats could get a little boost then. I'm not saying I'm going to run out and buy a player, but it may accelerate the transition in my mind.
  • Reply 7 of 25
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by onlooker View Post


    There is also a Dual format player being announced by LG that will play both Blu-R, and HD-D next week. I think both of these ideas were inevitable. I still prefer the larger capacity of Blu-Ray.



    I heard that Blu-Ray has more DRM locks on it, is that true?
  • Reply 8 of 25
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,309moderator
    I would think this will increase the price but if the studio absorbs that cost then it's very good of them to do this. It's a pretty good idea really. HD-DVD is read at a depth of 0.1mm and Blu-Ray at 0.6mm so they can be on the same disc without interfering. I do think however that it will add to the confusion. Ultimately, they should have reached a decision about which format to go with.
  • Reply 9 of 25
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    I would think this will increase the price but if the studio absorbs that cost then it's very good of them to do this. It's a pretty good idea really. HD-DVD is read at a depth of 0.1mm and Blu-Ray at 0.6mm so they can be on the same disc without interfering. I do think however that it will add to the confusion. Ultimately, they should have reached a decision about which format to go with.







    I think you have your numbers backwards, and I'm not sure if the hybrid is one sided or two sided. It would definitely seem possible to do as one-sided given the different layer depths, which leads me into the following;



    But as a general question how does the DL media work? How does the laser pickup the lower layer(s)? Is it just focusing at the lower depth (whatever that means), I mean how does the laser get past the upper layer(s) without hitting those layer(s) above it? Anyone that can explain this or post a link would be much appreciated.



    Also, as an aside Sony has demo'ed an 8-layer 200GB Blu-Ray disc (I'm sure most of you may have heard of this a few month's ago). I'm assuming that's 4-layer's/side, is that correct?



  • Reply 10 of 25
    shetlineshetline Posts: 4,695member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    HD-DVD is read at a depth of 0.1mm and Blu-Ray at 0.6mm...



    You've got that backwards... HD DVD is 0.6mm and Blu-Ray is 0.1mm. Regardless, I'm not sure if TW plans to layer the two formats the way you're imagining, or simply put the two formats on opposite sides of the same disc, much the same way dual-format HD/SD DVD discs are being made.
  • Reply 11 of 25
    shetlineshetline Posts: 4,695member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by franksargent View Post


    I think you have your numbers backwards...



    Now that's weird. I just posted to make the same correction you made, didn't see your post until after I'd submitted mine, yet your's shows a posting time exactly, to the minute, 4 hours before mine. Did we actually post at almost exactly the same time, but the posting times reflect our local time zones or something? I'm on EDT (UT+05) right now, for whatever that matters.
  • Reply 12 of 25
    eckingecking Posts: 1,588member
    Which storage capacity does hybrid have? HD-DVD's or Blu-ray's?
  • Reply 13 of 25
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by shetline View Post


    Now that's weird. I just posted to make the same correction you made, didn't see your post until after I'd submitted mine, yet your's shows a posting time exactly, to the minute, 4 hours before mine. Did we actually post at almost exactly the same time, but the posting times reflect our local time zones or something? I'm on EDT (UT+05) right now, for whatever that matters.







    Don't have a clue, I'm on CDT. I would think AI messages would be adjusted to each poster's time zone? Need to check next time we post, where I am my post shows as 4:23PM (which I think is correct for my time zone), yours as 8:23PM. My CP has the correct time zone and DST settings.



  • Reply 14 of 25
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ecking View Post


    Which storage capacity does hybrid have? HD-DVD's or Blu-ray's?







    Don't know for sure, we'll know when announced at CES. But I'd SWAG 15GB for HD-DVD/layer and 25GB/layer for Blu-Ray (same as the respective formats by themselves). I'd also SWAG that if DL each side of the disc would be in the respective format (to avoid flipping).



  • Reply 15 of 25
    shetlineshetline Posts: 4,695member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ecking View Post


    Which storage capacity does hybrid have? HD-DVD's or Blu-ray's?



    I heard someone mention hybrid discs on CNN this morning, and while this wasn't someone technical making a technical pronouncement, he said something like "It's HD DVD on one side, then just flip it over to get Blu-Ray".



    A lot of people hear seem to be imagining some tricky construction with HD DVD and Blu-Ray being read from the same side of the disc, focusing the laser through one layer of data to get at the other, but I suspect that the above comment is correct, and that these hybrid discs will be nothing more than an HD DVD disc and a Blu-Ray disc glued together back-to-back.
  • Reply 16 of 25
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Seems to me that the studios only willing to back one would avoid this format and while it would reduce the SKUs for the others it seems that if they can get consensus for Total HD anyway they (hollywood) should just pick one format and let the other die from lack of content.



    Vinea
  • Reply 17 of 25
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,309moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by shetline View Post


    A lot of people hear seem to be imagining some tricky construction with HD DVD and Blu-Ray being read from the same side of the disc, focusing the laser through one layer of data to get at the other, but I suspect that the above comment is correct, and that these hybrid discs will be nothing more than an HD DVD disc and a Blu-Ray disc glued together back-to-back.



    In that case, they will definitely fail to gain popularity because that means the discs will have no labels on them. I've had discs like that and they're horrible. If you leave a disc in the player, how do you know what movie it is? By some small print round the inside of the disc perhaps?



    Whenever a disc has any kind of major difference then it adds to the problem between which discs to buy.



    Shopper: Which disc do I buy? I have a PS3 Blu-Ray player.

    Assistant: You can have a Blu-Ray disc or a hybrid disc.

    Shopper: Well my friend has an Xbox360 with an HD-DVD drive and we swap movies.

    Assistant: In that case you'd be better off with the hybrid disc - they have both movies.

    Shopper: is there anything different about the disc?

    Assistant: It has no label on it.

    Shopper: Can I just have the DVD then please.
  • Reply 18 of 25
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:

    Seems to me that the studios only willing to back one would avoid this format and while it would reduce the SKUs for the others it seems that if they can get consensus for Total HD anyway they (hollywood) should just pick one format and let the other die from lack of content.



    I have a friend who works in home distribution for Paramount. Paramount has not formally backed either format. He told me that Blu-ray is considered the better technology. But the main limiting factor is Sony itself. Sony is demanding and not very cooperative. While Toshiba is much nicer much more flexible and cooperative. That makes it difficult to pick one over the other.



    He told me that everyone is really interested in Total HD because no one really wants a format war.
  • Reply 19 of 25
    shetlineshetline Posts: 4,695member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    In that case, they will definitely fail to gain popularity because that means the discs will have no labels on them. I've had discs like that and they're horrible. If you leave a disc in the player, how do you know what movie it is? By some small print round the inside of the disc perhaps?



    For better or worse, that's exactly how the current dual-format DVD/HD DVD discs are being done. No big label, one format on each side. I don't mind this much, except for the counter-intuitive small labeling on the inner ring: to play the HD DVD version of the movie (at least with the two examples I've played so far) you have to take the side labeled "HD DVD" and place that side facing down into the player, rather than facing up. I'm sure this will greatly confuse people.



    I know the reason for this oddness: the laser shines from the bottom up onto the underside of the disc -- pretty obvious when you consider that a labeled disc has the label on the top and the readable side on the bottom. This does mean, however, that you typically put a disc in a player with the side that tells you what you're playing facing up.



    The old venerable 12" laser disc format recognized this fact. Just like a CD or DVD player, the laser in a laser disc player read from the bottom side of a disc. Many laser discs were two sided, but the side labeled "Side A" was really Side B, and vice versa, so that when you stuck a disc into your player with the Side A label facing upward, Side A is what would play.



    I expected dual-format HD DVDs to follow this established convention, but that didn't turn out to be the case. I wonder which of these two ways of labeling the hybrid HD/BR discs will follow.



    Quote:

    Assistant: It has no label on it.

    Shopper: Can I just have the DVD then please.



    I'm sure there will be a little confusion, but I can't see too many people giving up on the beauty of an HD picture on this little point of annoyance.
  • Reply 20 of 25
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    I have a friend who works in home distribution for Paramount. Paramount has not formally backed either format. He told me that Blu-ray is considered the better technology. But the main limiting factor is Sony itself. Sony is demanding and not very cooperative. While Toshiba is much nicer much more flexible and cooperative. That makes it difficult to pick one over the other.



    He told me that everyone is really interested in Total HD because no one really wants a format war.



    I suspect that after the current year Sony will learn to play a little nicer. Or not but its kinda hard to imagine them any worse than before.



    Vinea
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