My Quicktime and iTunes will play XviD and Ogg, so it would be unpleasant to sync my iPhone and have those files not play. I think it would be easy for Apple to just pull these codecs from QT of the synced machine.
Even though it's a stripped down version of Safari with a few additions, I can't imagine that the PDF and FLash support will be left out.
As for MS Office, I at least hope there is a version of TextEdit for us to use. and one that allows you to use a stylus (optional accessory) if one should desire.
I also hope Apple starts selling eBooks on iTunes. Unless I'm long distances, I prefer to read than listen to books. Especially if they are technical in nature.
I rally hope speech-to-text and a voice recorder are in the inital release.
PRECISELY! I couldn't agree more. I've never owned a smart phone. I carry an iPod, a Sony W300i and a Tungsten E2. The money I get from eBaying those three devices will pay for the iPhone (hopefully)! Apple had me sold on simply the interface ... it's easy. I could care less about it being tied to Cingular. Things will come in time and we have 6 months to see what it'll finally become...
I think we're missing the larger significance of the iPhone though. Maybe they're using the iPhone to test the waters for a multi-touch interface laptop. The oft-rumoured "Mac Tablet or iTablet or ?Pad or whatever". Maybe they road is being paved for a small Ultra-Portable with touch interface and flash memory. If Apple gets the right developers on board, it could be the ultimate tool in the scientific and medical communities. The one area I see problems though is with text input. A lot of people need the tactile recognition of a keyboard. For some reason I can't see tons of people being happy doing more extensive text input on a touch screen. So, as awesome as the iPhone is, I believe it's leading the way to something far more profound here in the next few years...
Maybe something like This, you know, just with OS X and an Apple flair...
If you havn't seen the SteveNote by all means do so, the iTunes verson not the VoIP version. The demo of the iPhone was really good. The pinching, scrolling, and rotation features are truly something to see.
I don't know about tactile though, people are just used to it, because that's just the way things are. But I do believe the keypad is just a wee bit small, every time SJ showed the keypad it was in portrait mode, and given the iPhone's width I can see this being a problem for those with supersized fingers or those with below average manual dexterity. It would be nice if like the other functions rotating into landscape would also work for the keypad. Does it?
Now, about the fretting over closed systems and user installable apps or even user written apps: what are these apps? Anybody here write an app for a smart phone that added significant functionality, or is it just sort of a geek pride thing?
I ask because the tenor of the discussion reminds me of the "no software" caveat re Macs, which in practice means "doesn't have aisle after aisle of poorly written crap-ware, a lot of which was designed to make up for shortcomings in the Windows environment itself, a lot more of which is redundant, and of which 99% of the stuff worth having has a direct Mac equivalent."
So is it possible that between what Apple actually designs into the phone and whatever third party apps make their way through the Apple vetting process the iPhone will actually do 99% of what 99% of users want it to do? And that as it matures as a platform additional apps will become available that will continue to largely address the needs/desires of the large majority of users?
And that whether or not one can install additional apps is mostly an ideological point amongst enthusiasts that just like the idea?
Or are there serious, make it more useful for many people type things that we would anticipate not being included by Apple or its partners? I actually have no idea on this point, not being a smart phone user myself. But a lot of the stuff I've seem mentioned on other forums are hard-core geek niche fun, and it would appear to me pretty much irrelevant to the success of the iPhone.
Now as far as extending the paradigm as a platform, sure: you need developers. I'm just thinking that for the roll-out of the phone that "closed system" isn't at all a make or break deal for the people likely to buy it.
The third party apps often make or break a phone. Both Palm and MS have thousands of third party apps for their phones.
Apple will build in a few, but that doesn't mean that they can do more than skim the surface.
My wife really wants this phone. I'm not so sure for myself right now.
I have two book readers in my Treo 700p, Palmreader and Mobipocket. I keep about two dozen books in my memory card at most times. These phone make very satisfactory readers, if they have enough resolution.
I also have a bunch of games, a drawing program, Tube 2, for tristate rail and subway interactive maps. Mapopolis, for the entire country. Google maps, which is also on my phone can't compete with these in speed, and accuracy.
I have Mobilewrite, which takes the place of Graffiti, and uses the entire screen.
I have a program called UnitConvert, which does as you would imasgine, with thousands of conversions.
I also have a program called Infoview, which gives me electric and electronic information for when I'm working on some project. Info such as chip pin diagrams, circuit diagrams, connector pinouts, tables and formulas, etc.
I have more, but you get the point I think.
Without the ability to add programs, this phone will be dead in the water for many.
You're going to be disappointed. The iPod plays neither of these formats, don't expect the iPhone to.
And why is that? The codecs on your computer are x86 and/or PPC binaries, and the iPhone is probably running on an ARM platform.
Yeah, if Apple's cpu is not the same, the codecs would have to already have been ported, otherwise Apple will have to do so?IF those who own the codecs will allow then to. Apple would have to convince them to do so themselves if not.
Apple hasn't shown any interest in these fairly obscure codecs.
If you havn't seen the SteveNote by all means do so, the iTunes verson not the VoIP version. The demo of the iPhone was really good. The pinching, scrolling, and rotation features are truly something to see.
I don't know about tactile though, people are just used to it, because that's just the way things are. But I do believe the keypad is just a wee bit small, every time SJ showed the keypad it was in portrait mode, and given the iPhone's width I can see this being a problem for those with supersized fingers or those with below average manual dexterity. It would be nice if like the other functions rotating into landscape would also work for the keypad. Does it?
I have an idea about that keyboard. My feeling is that from the way it has been described, that the keyboard functions with a multitouch input.
Now, I don't know how many data points multitouch can handle. But, if it can handle several, it might have an advantage here.
If, for example, it can handle a number of inputs at once, it could determine which key you want to press. That is something that has been said about it. And then were are told, the software later makes software corrections.
What I'm thinking is that if you press a key, and center your finger, that key registers just fine. But, if your finger is slightly off that key, and registers a partial press on adjacent keys, there might be a weighted response (if possible). So, if 60% of the pressure was on one key, and no more than 40% on all of the rest of the keys, that one key would register. The numbers could vary, but this could be easily done if enough pressure points could be read at once.
On my Palm, when I hit one key, and slip to another one or two, often, more than one will register in sequence.
Of course, I have no idea how many pressure points can be measured at once. But, if it could be done that way, it would be ideal.
That way, even a "fat" finger could be about as accurate as a "skinny" finger, as long as the center of the key is being pressed, or close to it.
I suspect that something of the kind is going on, even if not exactly what I've just said.
But, even if only two or three presses can be read at once, it could be done, it the readings are fast enough. The machine could "poll" an area around the press in a few milliseconds to get that larger reading quickly enough, before the finger is lifted again.
Again. I don't know just how quickly the device can "read" a spot, but it could be done.
Does it have GPS? I'm beginning to think that it might not. It could be that the web sites that reported that it had were assuming that it did because of the map function. But the AI article isn't quite so definite about it as is his page.
The article says that Pogue said that it does not support "live GPS positioning through its Google Maps tool", which is very different. I don't know of any phone that supports, out of the box, user available live positioning, GPS or not. You can get that service for your kids, or elderly parents phone through a service from the phone company (if they offer it). But, even then, it only works through the phone company.
My old Samsung i330 had GPS, but if you wanted to get GPS software for it, you still needed to get a Palm compatable hardware module.
I have two book readers in my Treo 700p, Palmreader and Mobipocket. I keep about two dozen books in my memory card at most times. These phone make very satisfactory readers, if they have enough resolution.
I would be okay with Apple selling eBooks on iTunes. They already sell audio books, why not eBooks? Besides the excellent ability that iPhone's resolution would have in rendering the text, the new and improved text-to-voice capabilities in Leopard could make this even easier.
The Unit Converter I wouldn't worry about as it's a standard Dashboard Widget; it's those proprietary apps that will be the problem. If Apple lets any 4rd-party development happen, it will probably occur with JS Widgets. Can your Treo apps be made to work as a Widget, or are they too complex?
I would be okay with Apple selling eBooks on iTunes. They already sell audio books, why not eBooks? Besides the excellent ability that iPhone's resolution would have in rendering the text, the new and improved text-to-voice capabilities in Leopard could make this even easier.
The Unit Converter I wouldn't worry about as it's a standard Dashboard Widget; it's those proprietary apps that will be the problem. If Apple lets any 4rd-party development happen, it will probably occur with JS Widgets. Can your Treo apps be made to work as a Widget, or are they too complex?
Books are important too me, and going by the popularity of the readers, to many others as well. There are thousands of out of copyright books available as well for FREE. (It shows the Palm on the home page!).
I have an idea about that keyboard. My feeling is that from the way it has been described, that the keyboard functions with a multitouch input.
Now, I don't know how many data points multitouch can handle. But, if it can handle several, it might have an advantage here.
If, for example, it can handle a number of inputs at once, it could determine which key you want to press. That is something that has been said about it. And then were are told, the software later makes software corrections.
What I'm thinking is that if you press a key, and center your finger, that key registers just fine. But, if your finger is slightly off that key, and registers a partial press on adjacent keys, there might be a weighted response (if possible). So, if 60% of the pressure was on one key, and no more than 40% on all of the rest of the keys, that one key would register. The numbers could vary, but this could be easily done if enough pressure points could be read at once.
On my Palm, when I hit one key, and slip to another one or two, often, more than one will register in sequence.
Of course, I have no idea how many pressure points can be measured at once. But, if it could be done that way, it would be ideal.
That way, even a "fat" finger could be about as accurate as a "skinny" finger, as long as the center of the key is being pressed, or close to it.
I suspect that something of the kind is going on, even if not exactly what I've just said.
But, even if only two or three presses can be read at once, it could be done, it the readings are fast enough. The machine could "poll" an area around the press in a few milliseconds to get that larger reading quickly enough, before the finger is lifted again.
Again. I don't know just how quickly the device can "read" a spot, but it could be done.
First, I do think the keyboard layout is a wee bit small in portrait mode.
But having said that, I think you're on to something about the software and multitouch combination. First, it's software, so 1) Apple can always change it based on user feedback, and 2) Apple can give the user some customization capability to fit their input style.
On the multitouch side, I'm assuming this is some form of pressure sensitive and it covers the full screen at some "grid" resolution? Anyway, I would think that each key in the layout probably has just a small area in it's center that registers a keystroke. Again since this is software, the two points I made above also apply here, 1) Apple changes the software, and/or 2) Apple gives the end user some customization ability (or a few choices).
Anyway, the more I think about this multitouch and software that can be revised, the neater I think the whole iPhone is.
Looks like I'm the first to post on this thread after nearly 10 years.
Impressive product that had a both a global and cultural impact,
although I might argue that it wasn't really the iPhone that deserves
all the credit. The introduction of the App Store in July 2008 was
equally, if not perhaps more, important. What an incredible ride it's
been.
Looks like I'm the first to post on this thread after nearly 10 years.
Impressive product that had a both a global and cultural impact,
although I might argue that it wasn't really the iPhone that deserves
all the credit. The introduction of the App Store in July 2008 was
equally, if not perhaps more, important. What an incredible ride it's
been.
Amusingly 10 years later AT&T still has me as a customer because of that grandfathered unlimited data clause.
Good to know I didn't say anything stupid 10 years ago and I wonder where some of the folks in this thread is today.
It was also amusing to re-read Mel and Mr H feuding over AGPS after all these years. And Wizard69...heh...
What a trip to read some of the comments from 10 years ago, and I just started.
Thanks to AI for reposting this. I'll probably read them all. This is history. I wish we had 400 comments gathered together from 1500 when the first portable book appeared.
Most comments here were reasonable, surprisingly enough given the negatively that often occurs when Apple knocks it out of the park. Of course there were issues around size and price ( both genuine issues) and some people "didnt get it" but was generally interesting and positive/
Comments
Even though it's a stripped down version of Safari with a few additions, I can't imagine that the PDF and FLash support will be left out.
As for MS Office, I at least hope there is a version of TextEdit for us to use. and one that allows you to use a stylus (optional accessory) if one should desire.
I also hope Apple starts selling eBooks on iTunes. Unless I'm long distances, I prefer to read than listen to books. Especially if they are technical in nature.
I rally hope speech-to-text and a voice recorder are in the inital release.
My Quicktime and iTunes will play XviD and Ogg, so it would be unpleasant to sync my iPhone and have those files not play.
You're going to be disappointed. The iPod plays neither of these formats, don't expect the iPhone to.
I think it would be easy for Apple to just pull these codecs from QT of the synced machine.
And why is that? The codecs on your computer are x86 and/or PPC binaries, and the iPhone is probably running on an ARM platform.
PRECISELY! I couldn't agree more. I've never owned a smart phone. I carry an iPod, a Sony W300i and a Tungsten E2. The money I get from eBaying those three devices will pay for the iPhone (hopefully)! Apple had me sold on simply the interface ... it's easy. I could care less about it being tied to Cingular. Things will come in time and we have 6 months to see what it'll finally become...
I think we're missing the larger significance of the iPhone though. Maybe they're using the iPhone to test the waters for a multi-touch interface laptop. The oft-rumoured "Mac Tablet or iTablet or ?Pad or whatever". Maybe they road is being paved for a small Ultra-Portable with touch interface and flash memory. If Apple gets the right developers on board, it could be the ultimate tool in the scientific and medical communities. The one area I see problems though is with text input. A lot of people need the tactile recognition of a keyboard. For some reason I can't see tons of people being happy doing more extensive text input on a touch screen. So, as awesome as the iPhone is, I believe it's leading the way to something far more profound here in the next few years...
Maybe something like This, you know, just with OS X and an Apple flair...
If you havn't seen the SteveNote by all means do so, the iTunes verson not the VoIP version. The demo of the iPhone was really good. The pinching, scrolling, and rotation features are truly something to see.
I don't know about tactile though, people are just used to it, because that's just the way things are. But I do believe the keypad is just a wee bit small, every time SJ showed the keypad it was in portrait mode, and given the iPhone's width I can see this being a problem for those with supersized fingers or those with below average manual dexterity. It would be nice if like the other functions rotating into landscape would also work for the keypad. Does it?
And why is that? The codecs on your computer are x86 and/or PPC binaries, and the iPhone is probably running on an ARM platform.
I guess I am disappointed. I thought the codecs were only with the application on the OS.
CBS has posted a video with Phil Schiller demostrating the iPhone.
Not bad and more personal than the Keynote.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgW7or1TuFk
Now, about the fretting over closed systems and user installable apps or even user written apps: what are these apps? Anybody here write an app for a smart phone that added significant functionality, or is it just sort of a geek pride thing?
I ask because the tenor of the discussion reminds me of the "no software" caveat re Macs, which in practice means "doesn't have aisle after aisle of poorly written crap-ware, a lot of which was designed to make up for shortcomings in the Windows environment itself, a lot more of which is redundant, and of which 99% of the stuff worth having has a direct Mac equivalent."
So is it possible that between what Apple actually designs into the phone and whatever third party apps make their way through the Apple vetting process the iPhone will actually do 99% of what 99% of users want it to do? And that as it matures as a platform additional apps will become available that will continue to largely address the needs/desires of the large majority of users?
And that whether or not one can install additional apps is mostly an ideological point amongst enthusiasts that just like the idea?
Or are there serious, make it more useful for many people type things that we would anticipate not being included by Apple or its partners? I actually have no idea on this point, not being a smart phone user myself. But a lot of the stuff I've seem mentioned on other forums are hard-core geek niche fun, and it would appear to me pretty much irrelevant to the success of the iPhone.
Now as far as extending the paradigm as a platform, sure: you need developers. I'm just thinking that for the roll-out of the phone that "closed system" isn't at all a make or break deal for the people likely to buy it.
The third party apps often make or break a phone. Both Palm and MS have thousands of third party apps for their phones.
Apple will build in a few, but that doesn't mean that they can do more than skim the surface.
My wife really wants this phone. I'm not so sure for myself right now.
I have two book readers in my Treo 700p, Palmreader and Mobipocket. I keep about two dozen books in my memory card at most times. These phone make very satisfactory readers, if they have enough resolution.
I also have a bunch of games, a drawing program, Tube 2, for tristate rail and subway interactive maps. Mapopolis, for the entire country. Google maps, which is also on my phone can't compete with these in speed, and accuracy.
I have Mobilewrite, which takes the place of Graffiti, and uses the entire screen.
I have a program called UnitConvert, which does as you would imasgine, with thousands of conversions.
I also have a program called Infoview, which gives me electric and electronic information for when I'm working on some project. Info such as chip pin diagrams, circuit diagrams, connector pinouts, tables and formulas, etc.
I have more, but you get the point I think.
Without the ability to add programs, this phone will be dead in the water for many.
How long before Apple changes all their iPhone pics to display AT&T instead of Cingular?
I'm taking friendly wagers for the closest time and day this occurs. I'm saying this happens at 9:30am on Monday, 15-JAN-07.
The phone's not out yet. If ATT has already changed their name, then the phone will say ATT the first day it comes out.
You're going to be disappointed. The iPod plays neither of these formats, don't expect the iPhone to.
And why is that? The codecs on your computer are x86 and/or PPC binaries, and the iPhone is probably running on an ARM platform.
Yeah, if Apple's cpu is not the same, the codecs would have to already have been ported, otherwise Apple will have to do so?IF those who own the codecs will allow then to. Apple would have to convince them to do so themselves if not.
Apple hasn't shown any interest in these fairly obscure codecs.
If you havn't seen the SteveNote by all means do so, the iTunes verson not the VoIP version. The demo of the iPhone was really good. The pinching, scrolling, and rotation features are truly something to see.
I don't know about tactile though, people are just used to it, because that's just the way things are. But I do believe the keypad is just a wee bit small, every time SJ showed the keypad it was in portrait mode, and given the iPhone's width I can see this being a problem for those with supersized fingers or those with below average manual dexterity. It would be nice if like the other functions rotating into landscape would also work for the keypad. Does it?
I have an idea about that keyboard. My feeling is that from the way it has been described, that the keyboard functions with a multitouch input.
Now, I don't know how many data points multitouch can handle. But, if it can handle several, it might have an advantage here.
If, for example, it can handle a number of inputs at once, it could determine which key you want to press. That is something that has been said about it. And then were are told, the software later makes software corrections.
What I'm thinking is that if you press a key, and center your finger, that key registers just fine. But, if your finger is slightly off that key, and registers a partial press on adjacent keys, there might be a weighted response (if possible). So, if 60% of the pressure was on one key, and no more than 40% on all of the rest of the keys, that one key would register. The numbers could vary, but this could be easily done if enough pressure points could be read at once.
On my Palm, when I hit one key, and slip to another one or two, often, more than one will register in sequence.
Of course, I have no idea how many pressure points can be measured at once. But, if it could be done that way, it would be ideal.
That way, even a "fat" finger could be about as accurate as a "skinny" finger, as long as the center of the key is being pressed, or close to it.
I suspect that something of the kind is going on, even if not exactly what I've just said.
But, even if only two or three presses can be read at once, it could be done, it the readings are fast enough. The machine could "poll" an area around the press in a few milliseconds to get that larger reading quickly enough, before the finger is lifted again.
Again. I don't know just how quickly the device can "read" a spot, but it could be done.
Searched and couldn't find it, so if this link is here somewhere forgive me.
CBS has posted a video with Phil Schiller demostrating the iPhone.
Not bad and more personal than the Keynote.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgW7or1TuFk
Good video.
NY Times David Pogue's The Ultimate iPhone Frequently Asked Questions
Some of what Pogue is saying seemingly contradicts other information mentioned in the other AI article.
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2396
Does it have GPS? I'm beginning to think that it might not. It could be that the web sites that reported that it had were assuming that it did because of the map function. But the AI article isn't quite so definite about it as is his page.
The article says that Pogue said that it does not support "live GPS positioning through its Google Maps tool", which is very different. I don't know of any phone that supports, out of the box, user available live positioning, GPS or not. You can get that service for your kids, or elderly parents phone through a service from the phone company (if they offer it). But, even then, it only works through the phone company.
My old Samsung i330 had GPS, but if you wanted to get GPS software for it, you still needed to get a Palm compatable hardware module.
I have two book readers in my Treo 700p, Palmreader and Mobipocket. I keep about two dozen books in my memory card at most times. These phone make very satisfactory readers, if they have enough resolution.
I would be okay with Apple selling eBooks on iTunes. They already sell audio books, why not eBooks? Besides the excellent ability that iPhone's resolution would have in rendering the text, the new and improved text-to-voice capabilities in Leopard could make this even easier.
The Unit Converter I wouldn't worry about as it's a standard Dashboard Widget; it's those proprietary apps that will be the problem. If Apple lets any 4rd-party development happen, it will probably occur with JS Widgets. Can your Treo apps be made to work as a Widget, or are they too complex?
I would be okay with Apple selling eBooks on iTunes. They already sell audio books, why not eBooks? Besides the excellent ability that iPhone's resolution would have in rendering the text, the new and improved text-to-voice capabilities in Leopard could make this even easier.
The Unit Converter I wouldn't worry about as it's a standard Dashboard Widget; it's those proprietary apps that will be the problem. If Apple lets any 4rd-party development happen, it will probably occur with JS Widgets. Can your Treo apps be made to work as a Widget, or are they too complex?
Books are important too me, and going by the popularity of the readers, to many others as well. There are thousands of out of copyright books available as well for FREE. (It shows the Palm on the home page!).
http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_Page
My UnitConverter program has it over Apple's widget by an order of magnitude.
Most programs I have are too complex to be made into a widget, though some could. There are full fledged databases, etc., out there.
One major store for Palm.
http://www.palmgear.com/
I have an idea about that keyboard. My feeling is that from the way it has been described, that the keyboard functions with a multitouch input.
Now, I don't know how many data points multitouch can handle. But, if it can handle several, it might have an advantage here.
If, for example, it can handle a number of inputs at once, it could determine which key you want to press. That is something that has been said about it. And then were are told, the software later makes software corrections.
What I'm thinking is that if you press a key, and center your finger, that key registers just fine. But, if your finger is slightly off that key, and registers a partial press on adjacent keys, there might be a weighted response (if possible). So, if 60% of the pressure was on one key, and no more than 40% on all of the rest of the keys, that one key would register. The numbers could vary, but this could be easily done if enough pressure points could be read at once.
On my Palm, when I hit one key, and slip to another one or two, often, more than one will register in sequence.
Of course, I have no idea how many pressure points can be measured at once. But, if it could be done that way, it would be ideal.
That way, even a "fat" finger could be about as accurate as a "skinny" finger, as long as the center of the key is being pressed, or close to it.
I suspect that something of the kind is going on, even if not exactly what I've just said.
But, even if only two or three presses can be read at once, it could be done, it the readings are fast enough. The machine could "poll" an area around the press in a few milliseconds to get that larger reading quickly enough, before the finger is lifted again.
Again. I don't know just how quickly the device can "read" a spot, but it could be done.
First, I do think the keyboard layout is a wee bit small in portrait mode.
But having said that, I think you're on to something about the software and multitouch combination. First, it's software, so 1) Apple can always change it based on user feedback, and 2) Apple can give the user some customization capability to fit their input style.
On the multitouch side, I'm assuming this is some form of pressure sensitive and it covers the full screen at some "grid" resolution? Anyway, I would think that each key in the layout probably has just a small area in it's center that registers a keystroke. Again since this is software, the two points I made above also apply here, 1) Apple changes the software, and/or 2) Apple gives the end user some customization ability (or a few choices).
Anyway, the more I think about this multitouch and software that can be revised, the neater I think the whole iPhone is.
I want my iPhone!
Good to know I didn't say anything stupid 10 years ago and I wonder where some of the folks in this thread is today.
It was also amusing to re-read Mel and Mr H feuding over AGPS after all these years. And Wizard69...heh...
Thanks to AI for reposting this. I'll probably read them all. This is history. I wish we had 400 comments gathered together from 1500 when the first portable book appeared.