iPhone: Petition to ask Apple to allow 3rd-party development

monitron

Hey all..



I hope I'm not breaking any rules or etiquette by making this blatant plug as my first post on these forums, but here goes.



If you're like me, you were very excited when you heard about the iPhone, then very disappointed when you heard the news that it was to be a closed platform with no user-installable applications. To attempt to persuade Apple to reverse this decision, I've created a petition which I plan to deliver to Apple Corporate with as many signatures as possible:



iPhone Third Party Application Support Petition



If you agree, please give it a read and consider signing.



Thanks!

Justin

feynman

I don't see why Steve would mention that it's running on Mac OS X and talk about all the technologies it has on it, Cocoa being one of them if it was not open to developers.



I have a big feeling that there will be a lot of talk about the iPhone at WWDC this year.



I mean by the time Leopard ships it will almost be WWDC again and I don't think Steve is going to really discuss Mac OS 10.6....

mr. h

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feynman


I don't see why Steve would mention that it's running on Mac OS X and talk about all the technologies it has on it, Cocoa being one of them if it was not open to developers.

Well, there are quotes around from both Greg Joswiak and Jobs that the iPhone is going to be a closed system.

mr. h

That's a well-written argument, monitron. I hope you get lots of signatures.



Really, not allowing 3rd parties to develop for this platform is the dumbest of dumb moves.

ebaydan777

Mr. H ive heard a lot about what you are talking about but i havent heard anything that says it comes from Greg or Jobs....i beleive what i heard when someone actually asked Apple was "NO COMMENT"....and i think ill go with that because the phone doesnt look finished, i beleive they have much work to do on it and creating a developer kit is on their to-do list for this phone before launch date..i honestly dont think its a closed system

hiro

Apple has told folks at the show that third party devs can contact Apple about developing for it and that all apps will need to be QA tested by Apple. Remember this device will be directly connected to a major chunk of critical US communications infrastructure, you don't want just anyone with direct access into it. This will reduce the number of apps available, an unavoidable fact. Hopefully the QA process doesn't cost too much or we will only see for-pay stuff from devs with deep pockets. My guess is WWDC will have an iPhone track that will answer the hows and constraints.

feynman

I would have to agree with you Hiro. I think we will see at least a few more applications shipping with the phone. I'm shocked that Apple has ported over iChat as that would be a huge thing right there.



I am also really curious about the "widgets" that Steve mentioned. When I first saw the interface that's what I thought every application was based off of....so if it is running Mac OS X, why could you just transfer over the widgets that you have on your Mac?

ebaydan777

agreed, i think apple should Q&A all developers that want to make a product for the iphone, otherwise it will be a mess, and like he said in newsweek interviews, there will be many many many widgets created by apple even by release date...



i just hope ichat runs on data and not sms...sms is so slow it is definitly NOT INSTANT messaging..

bavlondon2

Thats a shame really. Here in the UK many people now have MSN (and this is even free on 3uk).



But hopefully when the 3G version comes in December the should have allowed some network specific applicatons such as instant messaging.

mr. h

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebaydan777


Mr. H ive heard a lot about what you are talking about but i havent heard anything that says it comes from Greg or Jobs

Here's the one from Greg. Can't find the Jobs one in my browser history for some reason.



Anyway, on further thought it would seem that there is the possibility that Apple will allow third-party development, but with very tight controls, like the iPod.

monitron

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. H


That's a well-written argument, monitron. I hope you get lots of signatures.



Really, not allowing 3rd parties to develop for this platform is the dumbest of dumb moves.

Thanks to you and everyone for your replies and signatures. Actually, I sincerely hope that I'm wrong and that all of the reports we have of a closed iPhone are not the whole truth; I'd even be happy if we were limited to developing "widgets." If the iPhone retains the OSX widgets' ability to incorporate Java, Flash and small embedded bits of Cocoa code, you should be able to write just about any application you wanted for the iPhone that way.



(Of course, there would be a lot of complaining if the widget platform didn't expose APIs for dialing the phone, tapping into onboard databases, location-awareness, gestures, etc....)



Any suggestions for where I can publicize this petition? Many of the other petitions on the same site have thousands of signatures...

ipeon

Hmmmm... Did you listen to the keynote? Steve said that Cingular is adapting it's network to take advantage of iPhone's capabilities. Example:



"And it lets you select and listen to voicemail messages in whatever order you want — just like email."



Are the other carriers whiling to do the same? That is a question that some here aren't looking at. Perhaps Cingular was the only one whiling to partner with Apple on this. I don't know, but one can't just be jumping to conclusions not knowing the full facts.

mr. h

Quote:

Originally Posted by iPeon


Hmmmm... Did you listen to the keynote? Steve said that Cingular is adapting it's network to take advantage of iPhone's capabilities. Example:



"And it lets you select and listen to voicemail messages in whatever order you want ? just like email."



Are the other carriers whiling to do the same? That is a question that some here aren't looking at. Perhaps Cingular was the only one whiling to partner with Apple on this. I don't know, but one can't just be jumping to conclusions not knowing the full facts.

I think you've either mis-understood this thread or posted in the wrong one.

ebaydan777

exactly cingual is giving some nice options for the apple iphone that other carriers most likely wouldnt do...if it ever was on verizon, youd probably have a verizon UI..then whats the point of the iPhone??...plus i dont mind about third party apps...i think actually after reading more about apples plans with the closed ends shows that whatever companies want to bring to the iphone must go through apple, which makes the phone less buggy unlike most smartphones and their third party apps, and im going to venture to say that the apps from apple will simply be widgets..which is great, widgets are fun

wmf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiro


Remember this device will be directly connected to a major chunk of critical US communications infrastructure, you don't want just anyone with direct access into it. This will reduce the number of apps available, an unavoidable fact.

Wrong. Symbian, Palm, and Windows Mobile phones allow anyone to write apps. The iPhone is just plain crippled.

monitron

I think that this New York Times article is the clearest yet on what Apple has planned for the iPhone's 3rd-party support, straight from Steve Jobs' mouth.



Basically he says that if there are any 3rd-party apps, they will be released through and by Apple, effectively limiting the market to large developers who can get Apple to notice and trust them before they even get a shot at the SDK.



The article seems to posit that the full-featured browser will alleviate the need for locally installable apps. To some degree I think that is true; well-designed AJAX applications could be viable replacements for some PDA-type functionality. But, I spend about 30 minutes a day underground in the DC Metro subway, where Cingular has zero coverage. It will be a huge pain to lose access to personal information, e-books or other such data when Internet connectivity is unavailable. Also, there's just no way a browser-based app can live up to the amazingly high user interface standards set by the rest of the iPhone! Such apps will intrinsically be slower and clunkier.

tenobell

Here is another quote from Jobs on the topic.



“We define everything that is on the phone,” he said. “You don’t want your phone to be like a PC. The last thing you want is to have loaded three apps on your phone and then you go to make a call and it doesn’t work anymore. These are more like iPods than they are like computers.”



The iPhone, he insisted, would not look like the rest of the wireless industry.



“These are devices that need to work, and you can’t do that if you load any software on them,” he said. “That doesn’t mean there’s not going to be software to buy that you can load on them coming from us. It doesn’t mean we have to write it all, but it means it has to be more of a controlled environment.”



To me this clearly says the are open to third party software. However it will have to go through Apple to insure it does not ruin the functionality of the phone or network.

tenobell

Quote:

Basically he says that if there are any 3rd-party apps, they will be released through and by Apple, effectively limiting the market to large developers who can get Apple to notice and trust them before they even get a shot at the SDK.

I think this will be the case at the beginning. Over time it will open up.

Quote:

But, I spend about 30 minutes a day underground in the DC Metro subway, where Cingular has zero coverage.

Here in New York there is no coverage from anyone in the underground portions of the subway.

tenobell

Quote:

During an interview on Tuesday, he said that Apple had not decided whether to enable a voice-over-Internet service like Skype — a potentially divisive issue for Cingular, the exclusive carrier for the iPhone, because it could come at the expense of cellular voice revenue.

This would be artificially crippling the phone. Hopefully Apple won't do it.

monitron

Quote:

Originally Posted by TenoBell


I think this will be the case at the beginning. Over time it will open up.

Five generations later, the iPod hasn't opened up any. The few apps available are games published by Apple, using the same model as they're proposing for the iPhone. I've always thought this was a huge bummer too...



I think Steve's logic as presented in the article is faulty. Palms with lots of 3rd-party software are flaky because they use an antiquated OS model that puts all running programs in the same space and allows them to hook into the OS and break things. The iPhone, with its modern software, could place each 3rd-party app in a sandbox and simply shut them down if they got out of line, used too much resources or otherwise threatened the "Phone" aspect of the phone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TenoBell


Here in New York there is no coverage from anyone in the underground portions of the subway.

Here, Verizon has an exclusive contract in the tunnels. Jerks!

SpamSandwich

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmf


Wrong. Symbian, Palm, and Windows Mobile phones allow anyone to write apps. The iPhone is just plain crippled.

It's the best looking cripple I've ever seen.