I can't believe how much Sprint / Verizon / Alltel EV-DO is downplayed. There IS 3G nationwide TODAY. Had Verizon agreed to Apple's terms, Tim Cook would have never been proclaiming their clear choice to go with GSM.
I'm sure with Apple's resources it would not be that difficult to create both GSM and CDMA/EV-DO flavors of the phone.
I personally believe that Apple never approach Verizon and offered them an exclusive deal. I think Verizon made those statement to save face with the investment community. They were also trying to show the rest of the industry they will not be pushed around.
Think about this, if they did a exclusive deal with Verizon that would mean they would have been limited to the USA. with GSM the world is a much larger market.
It will be a wait and see to find out how many phones they sell, but if Cingular sees a big up tick in new subscribers because of the iphone and version begins loosing market share you can bet that Verizon will try and make a deal.
Your right it is not that hard to make a GSM and CDMA version of the same phone. It is a single chip set change, Apple would have to deal with Qualcom for the CDMA chips and they are not pleasent to deal with. the problem is that Qualcom did not have a low enough power chip set until recently to allow this small form factor phones.
In Europe, phones use both 2G GSM (+EDGE) and 3G (GSM) on the same handset. Is that not the case in the USA? I know there's the GSM v CDMA thing but I was presuming the Cingular were running 2G->3G on the same phone like here.
An MBA never made someone good at their job. It gives you the tools to use, that's all.
I am not at all suggesting you should spend any time knowing, but I guess you don't know a whole heck of a lot about business schools either. But, that's fine. And you are in good company!
PS: By "job" I assume you mean their job leading/managing corporations (which is what most business schools train people for).
If the purpose is to provide functionality beyond phone calls, text messaging and web browsing (and everything else the iPhone can do), what functions do you need? Why not call for them to be included rather than 3rd party application support?
OK, I want:
Presentation remote control a la Salling Clicker
Ditto iTunes control
SSH client
MSN messenger (and no, AIM will not do)
MMS, which does not seem to be included. (It seems from the demos that there is no way to send an image to someone else's phone, which is ridiculous!)
Full word processor
Database that can sync with main computer, particularly for expense tracking
That's just a small selection of the sort of things I put on my current phone. I don't think the phone's OS should include them, since a lot of them are specialist things that many users don't want. Normal people don't use SSH, only geeks do. But I'd wager a lot of users have one or two must-have things that are vital for them and not important for many other people. That's why third party apps are great -- you can install what you will use and ignore what you won't
I am not at all suggesting you should spend any time knowing, but I guess you don't know a whole heck of a lot about business schools either. But, that's fine. And you are in good company!
PS: By "job" I assume you mean their job leading/managing corporations (which is what most business schools train people for).
There are different schools of thought on this. If you don't truly have a talent for it, an MBA degree isn't necessarily going to make a big difference, and for those that do have the talent, the lack of said degree isn't necessarily a hinderance. Sometimes it is actually a hindrance as it can indoctrinate a person into a certain way of operating a business when it's not as effective as it could be.
There are people that are college drop-outs but go on to found companies that make billions every year. Steve Jobs is an example of such a person, and he's not an isolated case. Hewlett and Packard had degrees but weren't MBAs. Bill Lear had no high school education. I'm sure numerous other examples can be given.
What are these schools of thought? Who are the thought leaders of these different schools?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
There are people that are college drop-outs but go on to found companies that make billions every year. Steve Jobs is an example of such a person, and he's not an isolated case. Hewlett and Packard had degrees but weren't MBAs. Bill Lear had no high school education. I'm sure numerous other examples can be given.
Of course there are. But such examples are anecdotal, and amount to nothing that is of any empirical substance. E.g., for every Steve Jobs, there is a Warren Buffett (Columbia MBA). I could match you example for example if I had the time. (By the same token, you don't even need a college degree to be a Bill Gates or a Brian Williams -- but surely you wouldn't suggest that a college education is useless?).
Is an MBA a necessary condition for business success? Of course not. Is an MBA from a top school a SOLID headstart to a major corporate career and possible business success ? You bet. (Let me give you an example: The average starting salary of an MBA graduate from a school such as HBS or Stanford or Tuck is something like $160,000 per year; and they are a little over 29, on average, when they graduate).
... I'd wager a lot of users have one or two must-have things that are vital for them and not important for many other people.
Bingo!! You said it very well! (Most of us spend our time howling in forums such these that what we want -- or have -- is what the world needs, and that what is unimportant to us, the world does not need).
What are these schools of thought? Who are the thought leaders of these different schools?
I suppose variations on hard knocks? Other than that, I really don't know, it's an impression I get from a fair variety of sources. The only one of even the slightest notability (i.e., someone you can look up) is the MYOB podcast.
Quote:
but surely you wouldn't suggest that a college education is useless?).
No, but unfortunately, it seems as if a degree is being used as a weeder criteria, not the actual talent, knowledge and experience. I suppose HR departments aren't very good at determining that, so they take the easy way out. People that are simply book smart will be able to graduate from any school, but employment often differs quite a bit from school work, so whether they are going to be any good at the task is often not established by earning a degree. I don't think that's an issue that is specific to any degree or pedigree.
Really? I've never really played with Windows Mobile for long enough. The last 3 years or so I've used Symbian phones. QuickOffice on Symbian doesn't seem to have any real problems opening, editing and writing Word, Excel and PowerPoint files although some of the more complex files get a little funky.
Yes, it's kind of painful on a 208x320 screen but when you have to, the ability to do it is really handy. The iPhone has a 320x480 screen so it'd be less painful.
A proper PDF view would be very useful, not just viewing PDFs embedded in Safari or Mail where it's near impossible to navigate. A multitouch version of Preview.app would be cool. I've got Adobe's Acrobat Reader on my p910.
While I don't know if it's still true, for years, the Palm has been known to have better compatibility with Office apps than Windows Mobile's various versions. This can be found in reviews over the years. Thankfully, I've never needed the compatibility, so I've never worried about it.
I'm not sure what a "proper PDF viewer can be expected to do on a small mobile device, other than to open the file, and have it appear somewhat like the original.
While I can't speak for others, I've had to open a lot of professionally composed PDF's for printing, and the thought of having to do that on a 480 x 320 device disgusts me. As long as it can be read, and the layout is sort of correct, that should be enough.
I suppose variations on hard knocks? Other than that, I really don't know, it's an impression I get from a fair variety of sources. The only one of even the slightest notability (i.e., someone you can look up) is the MYOB podcast.
No, but unfortunately, it seems as if a degree is being used as a weeder criteria, not the actual talent and experience. People that are simply book smart will be able to graduate from any school, but employment often differs quite a bit from school work, so whether they are going to be any good at the task is often not established by earning a degree. I don't think that's a complaint that is specific to any degree or pedigree.
I can give some personal knowledge of how it works.
Unless one is applying for a professional position in one's degree area, a degree IS used to weed people out, and in.
If I had two equally qualified people going for the same position (this is in the graphic arts, publishing, photography, etc), the one with a degree would be the first pick.
Getting a college degree in almost any field shows more concentration, ambition, and, very importantly, reliability.
It's expensive to hire an employee. One wants to know that they will stay a while. People with a degree tend to stay longer, as long as the job is not too far beneath their educational background.
But, even with messengers, I insisted upon a high school degree.
I am not at all suggesting you should spend any time knowing, but I guess you don't know a whole heck of a lot about business schools either. But, that's fine. And you are in good company!
PS: By "job" I assume you mean their job leading/managing corporations (which is what most business schools train people for).
No, I never went to business school, though I know a lot of people who did.
But, In running two of my own companies, I have always found that knowing how to LEAD, as you yourself put it, is very important. I could always hire financial people. Knowing the business is more important.
Don't forget when Michael Spindler was put in charge of Apple after Scully left, he made some of the worst decisions ever made at Apple. If it weren't for him, Apple may never have had the problems it did. An MBA didn't help there. Look at most successful business people. Few have MBA's.
Sadly enough, business schools THINK they are "training" people to run businesses. That's one thing they can't do.
You can teach the mechanics of this, but you can't teach good judgement, personality, and understanding of any particular industry.
The short answer is that NextG is a version of the 3GSM (the 3rd generation of GSM) running on a non-standard frequency that gives it extra range. The downside is that it requires non-standard handsets (for now).
3GSM (including NextG) is well and truly an evolution of GSM, not "CDMA".
Good to know - thanks for the well explained overview.
Look at most successful business people. Few have MBA's.
Sadly enough, business schools THINK they are "training" people to run businesses. That's one thing they can't do.
I'll be brief here (since some may think we are way off-topic vis-a-vis Apple, even though, acording to the story, it was Apple's COO who brought up business schools).
Forty percent of CEOs of S&P 500 companies -- by far the largest proportion -- have an MBA degree (and another 15% or so a law degree). Even amongst those who do not have an advanced degree, over a third had undergraduate majors in "Business," "Accounting" or "Economics."
Surely, a few Enrons, Worldcoms, and backdating scandals notwithstanding, this is a group of people that has helped generate substantial wealth? (Many MBAs inhabit the not-for-profit sphere as well, e.g., as in a Kofi Annan....... there's even one in the WH..... I suppose I am shooting myself in the foot here.... \ ).
MMS, which does not seem to be included. (It seems from the demos that there is no way to send an image to someone else's phone, which is ridiculous!)
Full word processor
Database that can sync with main computer, particularly for expense tracking
That's just a small selection of the sort of things I put on my current phone. I don't think the phone's OS should include them, since a lot of them are specialist things that many users don't want. Normal people don't use SSH, only geeks do. But I'd wager a lot of users have one or two must-have things that are vital for them and not important for many other people. That's why third party apps are great -- you can install what you will use and ignore what you won't
I'll be brief here (since some may think we are way off-topic vis-a-vis Apple, even though, acording to the story, it was Apple's COO who brought up business schools).
Forty percent of CEOs of S&P 500 companies -- by far the largest proportion -- have an MBA degree (and another 15% or so a law degree). Even amongst those who do not have an advanced degree, over a third had undergraduate majors in "Business," "Accounting" or "Economics."
Surely, a few Enrons, Worldcoms, and backdating scandals notwithstanding, this is a group of people that has helped generate substantial wealth? (Many MBAs inhabit the not-for-profit sphere as well, e.g., as in a Kofi Annan....... there's even one in the WH..... I suppose I am shooting myself in the foot here.... \ ).
That still leaves 60% who don't. I would expect those going into business to have gone to a business school. It's expected, because it's expected. It's somewhat circular. But, the S&P 500 is no where near close to being a large part of the business community as far as numbers go. And, in so far as "successful" goes, being a CEO of anything doesn't mean that one is successful at it. Many are fired for being unsuccessful at it. I'm sure you've heard of the Peter Principal?
The point I'm trying to make, is that it isn't the MBA that makes a CEO, or President, or Chairman, etc. successful.
That degree merely gives them the tools to use.
Just like very few who learn to read and write are capabile of writing a good novel, or poem, or short story, or screenplay, most of those with MBA's are not capable of properly running a company.
Many of these people keep the company running. But, that's to be expected. Enhancing the value of the company over the long term is something else. That takes vision, the personality to make good people want to work for him, or her, and an innate understanding of the industry, and potential customers. None of that can be taught.
Also, success can't be measured by the size of the company. Many of the most successful people have no interest in running a large firm.
I have known people who left the company they founded, only to found another, and another. Henry Kloss was one of those people. He founded several very successful audio and video companies. He became restless once the company became too large for him to stay out of the business end of things. Interestingly, several years after he left some of those formerly successful companies, they failed, because his vision was no longer guiding them. "Professional" management isn't always the one needed to head up a company. To run its daily affairs, sure.
Comments
I can't believe how much Sprint / Verizon / Alltel EV-DO is downplayed. There IS 3G nationwide TODAY. Had Verizon agreed to Apple's terms, Tim Cook would have never been proclaiming their clear choice to go with GSM.
I'm sure with Apple's resources it would not be that difficult to create both GSM and CDMA/EV-DO flavors of the phone.
I personally believe that Apple never approach Verizon and offered them an exclusive deal. I think Verizon made those statement to save face with the investment community. They were also trying to show the rest of the industry they will not be pushed around.
Think about this, if they did a exclusive deal with Verizon that would mean they would have been limited to the USA. with GSM the world is a much larger market.
It will be a wait and see to find out how many phones they sell, but if Cingular sees a big up tick in new subscribers because of the iphone and version begins loosing market share you can bet that Verizon will try and make a deal.
Your right it is not that hard to make a GSM and CDMA version of the same phone. It is a single chip set change, Apple would have to deal with Qualcom for the CDMA chips and they are not pleasent to deal with. the problem is that Qualcom did not have a low enough power chip set until recently to allow this small form factor phones.
In Europe, phones use both 2G GSM (+EDGE) and 3G (GSM) on the same handset. Is that not the case in the USA? I know there's the GSM v CDMA thing but I was presuming the Cingular were running 2G->3G on the same phone like here.
I live outside Philly and 3G coverage is hit or miss, but I do have EDGE via my RAZR phone
Since you actually do use EDGE, what do you think of it?
An MBA never made someone good at their job. It gives you the tools to use, that's all.
I am not at all suggesting you should spend any time knowing, but I guess you don't know a whole heck of a lot about business schools either. But, that's fine. And you are in good company!
PS: By "job" I assume you mean their job leading/managing corporations (which is what most business schools train people for).
If the purpose is to provide functionality beyond phone calls, text messaging and web browsing (and everything else the iPhone can do), what functions do you need? Why not call for them to be included rather than 3rd party application support?
OK, I want:
- Presentation remote control a la Salling Clicker
- Ditto iTunes control
- SSH client
- MSN messenger (and no, AIM will not do)
- MMS, which does not seem to be included. (It seems from the demos that there is no way to send an image to someone else's phone, which is ridiculous!)
- Full word processor
- Database that can sync with main computer, particularly for expense tracking
That's just a small selection of the sort of things I put on my current phone. I don't think the phone's OS should include them, since a lot of them are specialist things that many users don't want. Normal people don't use SSH, only geeks do. But I'd wager a lot of users have one or two must-have things that are vital for them and not important for many other people. That's why third party apps are great -- you can install what you will use and ignore what you won'tAmorya
I am not at all suggesting you should spend any time knowing, but I guess you don't know a whole heck of a lot about business schools either. But, that's fine. And you are in good company!
PS: By "job" I assume you mean their job leading/managing corporations (which is what most business schools train people for).
There are different schools of thought on this. If you don't truly have a talent for it, an MBA degree isn't necessarily going to make a big difference, and for those that do have the talent, the lack of said degree isn't necessarily a hinderance. Sometimes it is actually a hindrance as it can indoctrinate a person into a certain way of operating a business when it's not as effective as it could be.
There are people that are college drop-outs but go on to found companies that make billions every year. Steve Jobs is an example of such a person, and he's not an isolated case. Hewlett and Packard had degrees but weren't MBAs. Bill Lear had no high school education. I'm sure numerous other examples can be given.
There are different schools of thought on this.
What are these schools of thought? Who are the thought leaders of these different schools?
There are people that are college drop-outs but go on to found companies that make billions every year. Steve Jobs is an example of such a person, and he's not an isolated case. Hewlett and Packard had degrees but weren't MBAs. Bill Lear had no high school education. I'm sure numerous other examples can be given.
Of course there are. But such examples are anecdotal, and amount to nothing that is of any empirical substance. E.g., for every Steve Jobs, there is a Warren Buffett (Columbia MBA). I could match you example for example if I had the time. (By the same token, you don't even need a college degree to be a Bill Gates or a Brian Williams -- but surely you wouldn't suggest that a college education is useless?).
Is an MBA a necessary condition for business success? Of course not. Is an MBA from a top school a SOLID headstart to a major corporate career and possible business success ? You bet. (Let me give you an example: The average starting salary of an MBA graduate from a school such as HBS or Stanford or Tuck is something like $160,000 per year; and they are a little over 29, on average, when they graduate).
... I'd wager a lot of users have one or two must-have things that are vital for them and not important for many other people.
Bingo!! You said it very well! (Most of us spend our time howling in forums such these that what we want -- or have -- is what the world needs, and that what is unimportant to us, the world does not need).
What are these schools of thought? Who are the thought leaders of these different schools?
I suppose variations on hard knocks? Other than that, I really don't know, it's an impression I get from a fair variety of sources. The only one of even the slightest notability (i.e., someone you can look up) is the MYOB podcast.
but surely you wouldn't suggest that a college education is useless?).
No, but unfortunately, it seems as if a degree is being used as a weeder criteria, not the actual talent, knowledge and experience. I suppose HR departments aren't very good at determining that, so they take the easy way out. People that are simply book smart will be able to graduate from any school, but employment often differs quite a bit from school work, so whether they are going to be any good at the task is often not established by earning a degree. I don't think that's an issue that is specific to any degree or pedigree.
Really? I've never really played with Windows Mobile for long enough. The last 3 years or so I've used Symbian phones. QuickOffice on Symbian doesn't seem to have any real problems opening, editing and writing Word, Excel and PowerPoint files although some of the more complex files get a little funky.
Yes, it's kind of painful on a 208x320 screen but when you have to, the ability to do it is really handy. The iPhone has a 320x480 screen so it'd be less painful.
A proper PDF view would be very useful, not just viewing PDFs embedded in Safari or Mail where it's near impossible to navigate. A multitouch version of Preview.app would be cool. I've got Adobe's Acrobat Reader on my p910.
While I don't know if it's still true, for years, the Palm has been known to have better compatibility with Office apps than Windows Mobile's various versions. This can be found in reviews over the years. Thankfully, I've never needed the compatibility, so I've never worried about it.
I'm not sure what a "proper PDF viewer can be expected to do on a small mobile device, other than to open the file, and have it appear somewhat like the original.
While I can't speak for others, I've had to open a lot of professionally composed PDF's for printing, and the thought of having to do that on a 480 x 320 device disgusts me. As long as it can be read, and the layout is sort of correct, that should be enough.
I suppose variations on hard knocks? Other than that, I really don't know, it's an impression I get from a fair variety of sources. The only one of even the slightest notability (i.e., someone you can look up) is the MYOB podcast.
No, but unfortunately, it seems as if a degree is being used as a weeder criteria, not the actual talent and experience. People that are simply book smart will be able to graduate from any school, but employment often differs quite a bit from school work, so whether they are going to be any good at the task is often not established by earning a degree. I don't think that's a complaint that is specific to any degree or pedigree.
I can give some personal knowledge of how it works.
Unless one is applying for a professional position in one's degree area, a degree IS used to weed people out, and in.
If I had two equally qualified people going for the same position (this is in the graphic arts, publishing, photography, etc), the one with a degree would be the first pick.
Getting a college degree in almost any field shows more concentration, ambition, and, very importantly, reliability.
It's expensive to hire an employee. One wants to know that they will stay a while. People with a degree tend to stay longer, as long as the job is not too far beneath their educational background.
But, even with messengers, I insisted upon a high school degree.
OK, I want:
- MMS, which does not seem to be included. (It seems from the demos that there is no way to send an image to someone else's phone, which is ridiculous!)
- Full word processor
\\Amorya
Did you not see Jobs send a picture to a email address off his phone?
And why do you need a full word processor on your phone?
I am not at all suggesting you should spend any time knowing, but I guess you don't know a whole heck of a lot about business schools either. But, that's fine. And you are in good company!
PS: By "job" I assume you mean their job leading/managing corporations (which is what most business schools train people for).
No, I never went to business school, though I know a lot of people who did.
But, In running two of my own companies, I have always found that knowing how to LEAD, as you yourself put it, is very important. I could always hire financial people. Knowing the business is more important.
Don't forget when Michael Spindler was put in charge of Apple after Scully left, he made some of the worst decisions ever made at Apple. If it weren't for him, Apple may never have had the problems it did. An MBA didn't help there. Look at most successful business people. Few have MBA's.
Sadly enough, business schools THINK they are "training" people to run businesses. That's one thing they can't do.
You can teach the mechanics of this, but you can't teach good judgement, personality, and understanding of any particular industry.
The short answer is that NextG is a version of the 3GSM (the 3rd generation of GSM) running on a non-standard frequency that gives it extra range. The downside is that it requires non-standard handsets (for now).
3GSM (including NextG) is well and truly an evolution of GSM, not "CDMA".
Good to know - thanks for the well explained overview.
Look at most successful business people. Few have MBA's.
Sadly enough, business schools THINK they are "training" people to run businesses. That's one thing they can't do.
I'll be brief here (since some may think we are way off-topic vis-a-vis Apple, even though, acording to the story, it was Apple's COO who brought up business schools).
Forty percent of CEOs of S&P 500 companies -- by far the largest proportion -- have an MBA degree (and another 15% or so a law degree). Even amongst those who do not have an advanced degree, over a third had undergraduate majors in "Business," "Accounting" or "Economics."
Surely, a few Enrons, Worldcoms, and backdating scandals notwithstanding, this is a group of people that has helped generate substantial wealth? (Many MBAs inhabit the not-for-profit sphere as well, e.g., as in a Kofi Annan....... there's even one in the WH..... I suppose I am shooting myself in the foot here....
There are good studies on this. One of the better ones is from Spencer Stuart: http://content.spencerstuart.com/ssw...O_Study_JS.pdf
True...but the only time I go to S.F. is for Giants and 49er games. Not really the best time to use the internet
Sacramento would be nice...
Well I think the 49ers are leaving... but I think Google plans to spread to different cities with this, I believe Mountain View already has it.
Sebastian
Doesn't San Francisco have wifi from Google?
Not Yet, Google plans to roll it out this year, so they are probably working on it right now and it just hasn't launched yet.
Sebastian
OK, I want:
- Presentation remote control a la Salling Clicker
- Ditto iTunes control
- SSH client
- MSN messenger (and no, AIM will not do)
- MMS, which does not seem to be included. (It seems from the demos that there is no way to send an image to someone else's phone, which is ridiculous!)
- Full word processor
- Database that can sync with main computer, particularly for expense tracking
That's just a small selection of the sort of things I put on my current phone. I don't think the phone's OS should include them, since a lot of them are specialist things that many users don't want. Normal people don't use SSH, only geeks do. But I'd wager a lot of users have one or two must-have things that are vital for them and not important for many other people. That's why third party apps are great -- you can install what you will use and ignore what you won'tAmorya
- Not Sure Why
- Ditto on Not Sure
- There will likely be some form of Encryption
- Ask Microsoft, not Apple
- Try Email, it was in the Keynote
- Why?
- No Comment
SebastianI'll be brief here (since some may think we are way off-topic vis-a-vis Apple, even though, acording to the story, it was Apple's COO who brought up business schools).
Forty percent of CEOs of S&P 500 companies -- by far the largest proportion -- have an MBA degree (and another 15% or so a law degree). Even amongst those who do not have an advanced degree, over a third had undergraduate majors in "Business," "Accounting" or "Economics."
Surely, a few Enrons, Worldcoms, and backdating scandals notwithstanding, this is a group of people that has helped generate substantial wealth? (Many MBAs inhabit the not-for-profit sphere as well, e.g., as in a Kofi Annan....... there's even one in the WH..... I suppose I am shooting myself in the foot here....
There are good studies on this. One of the better ones is from Spencer Stuart: http://content.spencerstuart.com/ssw...O_Study_JS.pdf
That still leaves 60% who don't. I would expect those going into business to have gone to a business school. It's expected, because it's expected. It's somewhat circular. But, the S&P 500 is no where near close to being a large part of the business community as far as numbers go. And, in so far as "successful" goes, being a CEO of anything doesn't mean that one is successful at it. Many are fired for being unsuccessful at it. I'm sure you've heard of the Peter Principal?
The point I'm trying to make, is that it isn't the MBA that makes a CEO, or President, or Chairman, etc. successful.
That degree merely gives them the tools to use.
Just like very few who learn to read and write are capabile of writing a good novel, or poem, or short story, or screenplay, most of those with MBA's are not capable of properly running a company.
Many of these people keep the company running. But, that's to be expected. Enhancing the value of the company over the long term is something else. That takes vision, the personality to make good people want to work for him, or her, and an innate understanding of the industry, and potential customers. None of that can be taught.
Also, success can't be measured by the size of the company. Many of the most successful people have no interest in running a large firm.
I have known people who left the company they founded, only to found another, and another. Henry Kloss was one of those people. He founded several very successful audio and video companies. He became restless once the company became too large for him to stay out of the business end of things. Interestingly, several years after he left some of those formerly successful companies, they failed, because his vision was no longer guiding them. "Professional" management isn't always the one needed to head up a company. To run its daily affairs, sure.
Well I think the 49ers are leaving... but I think Google plans to spread to different cities with this, I believe Mountain View already has it.
Sebastian
You lock it up. They're not going anywhere...yet.
Officially.
Maybe.
Hopefully.
Fuck.