anyone try it yet! always scares me to be the first to test....a beta......but looks good but why is APPLE getting into browsers? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
liking it so far...seems very mature in some ways.... definitely a beta though....need keychain, tabs would be nice, auto fill...but i can see using it as my only browser soon (with chimera i still kept IE for backup)...look at safari and chimera side by side and safari has a much nice gui and really nice bookmarks and such as i play more and more....g
and spelling check is a god send for an idiot like me....though the .... messes me up in spellcheck...
I absolutely love it so far, and expect them to build in more features soon. (Fingers crossed) Right now I am using it as my only browser, though featured like open behind current window and such would be very welcome.
I want to know what I am clicking before I click something, dammit.
Third:Buttons need to be bigger and more obvious from a design standpoint - They're tiny.
Fourth: Has anyone tried out Flash in this thing? It's the slowest thing I've ever seen. It is at least half the speed of IE5.
Fifth: Apple needs to drop this 'Aquafy the internet with our Aqua widgets!' crusade. I want to see customized form elements in their customized colors like the author intended. Or an option to, at least.
Sixth: I want to be able to drop PNG/JPG/GIF images into the tool bar as links like I can in IE5.
Seventh: I want to be able to turn of text smoothing. It's hard on the eyes.
Eighth: Let me move or remove that goole thing. Ew.
Ninth: I want a text-only version of that download manager with the ability to get additional info like in IE
I want to know what I am clicking before I click something, dammit.</strong><hr></blockquote>
command-\\ or under the View menu.
Fourth: Has anyone tried out Flash in this thing? It's the slowest thing I've ever seen. It is at least half the speed of IE5.
I'll have to take your word for it. Seems OK, not great.
Fifth: Apple needs to drop this 'Aquafy the internet with our Aqua widgets!' crusade. I want to see customized form elements in their customized colors like the author intended. Or an option to, at least.
Uh, it's OS X and Aqua. What else would they use, WinXP widgets? Custom widgets do show up if they are assigned. Just look at Apple.com and Adobe.com for proof.
Sixth: I want to be able to drop PNG/JPG/GIF images into the tool bar as links like I can in IE5.
Works fine for me.
Seventh: I want to be able to turn of text smoothing. It's hard on the eyes.
At this point, if you want to turn off text smoothing, you should turning off OS X.
Eighth: Let me move or remove that goole thing. Ew.
View menu: uncheck Google Search
-------
my critique: no means of managing cookies (yet). Let's remember this is beta software.
I love it! It's absolutely great for a beta. I love the GUI including the brushed metal! Everything is very well organized, simple, and effective. It's been fast also. The only complaints I have are:
1. Does not work with homestarrunner.com which I just submitted to Apple.
2. No TABS!?!?!
3. Flash needs some work.
4. More drag & drop options.
I'm sure all of this will be addressed and it's a GREAT browser for a beta. It's the only browser on my computer and I have yet to find a need to redownload the others that I deleted: Navigator 0.6, IE 5, Netscape 7, Omniweb 4.1, Opera 6.0, and Mozilla. I probably won't download another browser until Navigator 1.0 and Omniweb 5.0 are released. And Safari will likely be much better by then.
Does anyone else have this problem? Whenever I open Safari, the window is askew. It's just a bit down and to the right from where I left it last time (see attached picture). I can't figure out why!!!
I know it's free and it's beta...I will send my feedback to Apple too.
1. I don't have a high speed connection...I use a 56 kb modem. It is slower than IE. It may depend on the site or speed, but it is about as fast as IE. It's nowhere near as fast as Mozilla.
2. The GUI is one positive thing. Unobtrusive and I like the brushed metal look. They really should have had the status bar on as default. This can be a security risk if one doesn't see or know what that link they're hovering over is a .sit file or a virus...
3. Why not a Mail toolbar button? And why does Mail open after I click on a mail link and Mail opens with a reply window...without the email address in the "To:" field...oops.
4. The Download feature is a joke. I like the feature that IE opens a Finder window so you can choose where and what folder you want to download files...and create a new folder too. Safari only allows you to choose a specific folder in the preferences menu (and why isn't there a Preferences button for the tool bar?).
5. Another thing with the download feature is if a file fails to download it won't appear in the Download window. IE does with an error icon. And only one download at a time? Come on Apple...you can set up multiple downloads in IE!
(I haven't tried the feature of downloading a .bin, .sit or .dmg file yet)
6. Bookmarks? Meh...about the same as IE. I don't see anything amazing there...
Will I use Safari? No, I'll play around with it. But I'll keep IE. I really love IE after this experience. But with all browsers in beta...they take time. Safari needs a lot of work.
And personally I think Apple made a HUGE mistake getting into the browser market... <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
<strong>They really should have had the status bar on as default. This can be a security risk if one doesn't see or know what that link they're hovering over is a .sit file or a virus...
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>
One of the main reasons why I used Omniweb (pre-Safari) was that it displayed the link location when you hovered.
Every other browser lets the web designer put all sorts of annoying crap in the status bar which negates the security benefit you mention.
I now use a web proxy that scrubs that kind of javascript out before it gets to the browser (but most people don't). I *assume* (not at a mac, at the mo) that Safari just ignores such nonsense and just shows the link.
--------
If you really think IE is the best browser out for OS X today, do you think it will still be in a 6 months or a year's time?
IE 6 on Wintel was hardly one giant leap for mankind and the competition will be Safari final release or 1.2, Mozilla 1.6 (maybe 2.0), a renamed Phoenix 1.0, Chimera 1.0, OmniWeb 5.0, Opera 7.
All of the Gecko based browsers will have moved to the new Mach-O backend (Translation: even greater speed/stability) and Chimera will have merged with the main code tree again taking advantage of the speed and stability increases as well as any innovative new features.
The future of browsing on the Mac is bright. But it is no thanks to MSFT.
<strong>Does anyone else have this problem? Whenever I open Safari, the window is askew. It's just a bit down and to the right from where I left it last time (see attached picture). I can't figure out why!!!
-Y
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, I'm having that problem too. It's a know problem though, so hopefully Apple will fix it soon.
I know it's free and it's beta...I will send my feedback to Apple too.
1. I don't have a high speed connection...I use a 56 kb modem. It is slower than IE. It may depend on the site or speed, but it is about as fast as IE. It's nowhere near as fast as Mozilla.
2. The GUI is one positive thing. Unobtrusive and I like the brushed metal look. They really should have had the status bar on as default. This can be a security risk if one doesn't see or know what that link they're hovering over is a .sit file or a virus...
3. Why not a Mail toolbar button? And why does Mail open after I click on a mail link and Mail opens with a reply window...without the email address in the "To:" field...oops.
4. The Download feature is a joke. I like the feature that IE opens a Finder window so you can choose where and what folder you want to download files...and create a new folder too. Safari only allows you to choose a specific folder in the preferences menu (and why isn't there a Preferences button for the tool bar?).
5. Another thing with the download feature is if a file fails to download it won't appear in the Download window. IE does with an error icon. And only one download at a time? Come on Apple...you can set up multiple downloads in IE!
(I haven't tried the feature of downloading a .bin, .sit or .dmg file yet)
6. Bookmarks? Meh...about the same as IE. I don't see anything amazing there...
Will I use Safari? No, I'll play around with it. But I'll keep IE. I really love IE after this experience. But with all browsers in beta...they take time. Safari needs a lot of work.
And personally I think Apple made a HUGE mistake getting into the browser market... <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
1.) Safari is rediculously faster than IE, and I connect at ~24Kb/s most of the time, due to my crappy phone line.
2.) True.
3.) What? I get a normal message window, with the address in the To: field.
4.) The window may not be much, but it's simple and small, I'll give it that. As for changing the download location, it is very changable. Have you not figured out how to navigate the default dialogs in Mac OS X via the keyboard yet? And yes, it does need a new folder button.
5.) Yeah, the download manager is crap when you want to download more than one file. Even when you hit the 'x' button, the next download wont start. And there is no way to clear only one download at a time, without selecting something other than manual in the preferences.
6.) The bookmarks are great because of the way they are set up. Collections are a great way to manage bookmarks if you have hundreds and hundreds and don't want them all cloging up your bookmark menu. Big submenus are jerky on my iMac Rev. B, so I particularly like this. On top of that, I get all of the homepages of all of my friends straight from my Address Book. Plus, the navigation is very simple and iApp like, not buggy trash like IE and OmniWeb.
<strong>1. Does not work with homestarrunner.com which I just submitted to Apple.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Haven't had any trouble with HomeStarRunner (which, BTW, is awesome, if you're lookin for a good laugh, check it out)
Overall, I love Safari, like most, I'd like tabs, and I was pleased to find that there is indeed a status bar. And for those who seem to love IE so much, I just don't see it. In 9, I used Netscape 4.x, and I was thrilled to find Mozilla, and then Chimera shortly after switching to X about a year ago. I can't stand IE, particularly having gotten used to the speed, and other great features in Chimera (tabs, pop-up blocking, etc.) Also, right after downloading Safari, I loaded up a few different sites side by side in Chimera and Safari (iMac DV 400, 56k) Safari loaded every page faster, and I know from previous tests that Chimera is faster than IE.
Now, don't suppose anyone knows how to turn on that turbo pipeline downloading or whatever in Safari, or if it can be turned on. I got a definite (if not huge) improvement in Chimera after switching that on a few weeks back.
<strong>4.)As for changing the download location, it is very changable. Have you not figured out how to navigate the default dialogs in Mac OS X via the keyboard yet?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Could someone give me an idea how that's done? I've had issues with that. Like typing a letter to get down or up the list of files or folders in the dialogue boxes. A link perhaps to an illustrated diagram...
Oh, and it's ridiculous... I tested Safari's speed with Mozilla and Mozilla blew the pants off of Safari as far as downoad speeds. Mozilla is the fastest browser on my Mac. But IE has the best features of any browser (not a tab fanatic) I'm usually connected at around 46kb to 50kb...
Oh, and it's ridiculous... I tested Safari's speed with Mozilla and Mozilla blew the pants off of Safari as far as downoad speeds. Mozilla is the fastest browser on my Mac.</strong>
<hr></blockquote>
Are you talking download + page rendering or just throughput on a big file?
I've heard some conflicting reports and would like to see this properly settled. The i-bench tests that apple use are pants if I remember correctly, measuring how long it takes for javascript to cycle through a loop a million times or so and other unlikely scenarios.
I believe that Mozilla has a bank of speed tests that it uses to measure its progress in speed tuning, I wonder if you can download and test against them?
I'm also wondering about how multithreaded Safari is as this is a big weakness of the Mozilla code.
Some comments on how much work was done on the networking code would also be nice, I've heard reports of this being a current flaw in Safari.
I must say that I have a sneaking suspicion that Safari will take a giant leap in performance before final release, hopefully to the point where there is no doubt about the winner.
Comments
I tried it. Some pages are much slower than on a boosted Chimera. it seems quite nice to be a beta though. But no tabs in it.
Try, it's small to download.
and spelling check is a god send for an idiot like me....though the .... messes me up in spellcheck...
First off - I hate brushed metal.
Lost points immediately, there.
Secondly - WHERE IS THE STATUS BAR??
I want to know what I am clicking before I click something, dammit.
Third:Buttons need to be bigger and more obvious from a design standpoint - They're tiny.
Fourth: Has anyone tried out Flash in this thing? It's the slowest thing I've ever seen. It is at least half the speed of IE5.
Fifth: Apple needs to drop this 'Aquafy the internet with our Aqua widgets!' crusade. I want to see customized form elements in their customized colors like the author intended. Or an option to, at least.
Sixth: I want to be able to drop PNG/JPG/GIF images into the tool bar as links like I can in IE5.
Seventh: I want to be able to turn of text smoothing. It's hard on the eyes.
Eighth: Let me move or remove that goole thing. Ew.
Ninth: I want a text-only version of that download manager with the ability to get additional info like in IE
Good things:
Supports favorite icons
FAST.
Launches quick
extremely small download
You can turn off brushed metal by editing the browser.nib file in the package contents.
[ 01-07-2003: Message edited by: chych ]</p>
<strong>Secondly - WHERE IS THE STATUS BAR??
I want to know what I am clicking before I click something, dammit.</strong><hr></blockquote>
command-\\ or under the View menu.
Fourth: Has anyone tried out Flash in this thing? It's the slowest thing I've ever seen. It is at least half the speed of IE5.
I'll have to take your word for it. Seems OK, not great.
Fifth: Apple needs to drop this 'Aquafy the internet with our Aqua widgets!' crusade. I want to see customized form elements in their customized colors like the author intended. Or an option to, at least.
Uh, it's OS X and Aqua. What else would they use, WinXP widgets? Custom widgets do show up if they are assigned. Just look at Apple.com and Adobe.com for proof.
Sixth: I want to be able to drop PNG/JPG/GIF images into the tool bar as links like I can in IE5.
Works fine for me.
Seventh: I want to be able to turn of text smoothing. It's hard on the eyes.
At this point, if you want to turn off text smoothing, you should turning off OS X.
Eighth: Let me move or remove that goole thing. Ew.
View menu: uncheck Google Search
-------
my critique: no means of managing cookies (yet). Let's remember this is beta software.
1. Does not work with homestarrunner.com which I just submitted to Apple.
2. No TABS!?!?!
3. Flash needs some work.
4. More drag & drop options.
I'm sure all of this will be addressed and it's a GREAT browser for a beta. It's the only browser on my computer and I have yet to find a need to redownload the others that I deleted: Navigator 0.6, IE 5, Netscape 7, Omniweb 4.1, Opera 6.0, and Mozilla. I probably won't download another browser until Navigator 1.0 and Omniweb 5.0 are released. And Safari will likely be much better by then.
-Y
<strong>1. Does not work with homestarrunner.com which I just submitted to Apple.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Intersetingly enough that page seems to work fine for me. The browser does seem to have some issues with plug-ins though.
[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: Telomar ]</p>
[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: Mount_my_floppy ]</p>
I know it's free and it's beta...I will send my feedback to Apple too.
1. I don't have a high speed connection...I use a 56 kb modem. It is slower than IE. It may depend on the site or speed, but it is about as fast as IE. It's nowhere near as fast as Mozilla.
2. The GUI is one positive thing. Unobtrusive and I like the brushed metal look. They really should have had the status bar on as default. This can be a security risk if one doesn't see or know what that link they're hovering over is a .sit file or a virus...
3. Why not a Mail toolbar button? And why does Mail open after I click on a mail link and Mail opens with a reply window...without the email address in the "To:" field...oops.
4. The Download feature is a joke. I like the feature that IE opens a Finder window so you can choose where and what folder you want to download files...and create a new folder too. Safari only allows you to choose a specific folder in the preferences menu (and why isn't there a Preferences button for the tool bar?).
5. Another thing with the download feature is if a file fails to download it won't appear in the Download window. IE does with an error icon. And only one download at a time? Come on Apple...you can set up multiple downloads in IE!
(I haven't tried the feature of downloading a .bin, .sit or .dmg file yet)
6. Bookmarks? Meh...about the same as IE. I don't see anything amazing there...
Will I use Safari? No, I'll play around with it. But I'll keep IE. I really love IE after this experience. But with all browsers in beta...they take time. Safari needs a lot of work.
And personally I think Apple made a HUGE mistake getting into the browser market... <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: Artman @_@ ]</p>
Finally we have a browser that is fast (I have cable) and it renders text like OmniWeb.
BTW, how will OW justify charging for their browser in the future? By the time it comes out, Safari should be out of beta and be even better.
Lastly, where is IE 6? I thought it was coming out at this show.
<strong>They really should have had the status bar on as default. This can be a security risk if one doesn't see or know what that link they're hovering over is a .sit file or a virus...
</strong>
<hr></blockquote>
One of the main reasons why I used Omniweb (pre-Safari) was that it displayed the link location when you hovered.
Every other browser lets the web designer put all sorts of annoying crap in the status bar which negates the security benefit you mention.
I now use a web proxy that scrubs that kind of javascript out before it gets to the browser (but most people don't). I *assume* (not at a mac, at the mo) that Safari just ignores such nonsense and just shows the link.
--------
If you really think IE is the best browser out for OS X today, do you think it will still be in a 6 months or a year's time?
IE 6 on Wintel was hardly one giant leap for mankind and the competition will be Safari final release or 1.2, Mozilla 1.6 (maybe 2.0), a renamed Phoenix 1.0, Chimera 1.0, OmniWeb 5.0, Opera 7.
All of the Gecko based browsers will have moved to the new Mach-O backend (Translation: even greater speed/stability) and Chimera will have merged with the main code tree again taking advantage of the speed and stability increases as well as any innovative new features.
The future of browsing on the Mac is bright. But it is no thanks to MSFT.
<strong>Does anyone else have this problem? Whenever I open Safari, the window is askew. It's just a bit down and to the right from where I left it last time (see attached picture). I can't figure out why!!!
-Y
Yeah, I'm having that problem too. It's a know problem though, so hopefully Apple will fix it soon.
<strong>Am I the only one who thinks it's crap?
I know it's free and it's beta...I will send my feedback to Apple too.
1. I don't have a high speed connection...I use a 56 kb modem. It is slower than IE. It may depend on the site or speed, but it is about as fast as IE. It's nowhere near as fast as Mozilla.
2. The GUI is one positive thing. Unobtrusive and I like the brushed metal look. They really should have had the status bar on as default. This can be a security risk if one doesn't see or know what that link they're hovering over is a .sit file or a virus...
3. Why not a Mail toolbar button? And why does Mail open after I click on a mail link and Mail opens with a reply window...without the email address in the "To:" field...oops.
4. The Download feature is a joke. I like the feature that IE opens a Finder window so you can choose where and what folder you want to download files...and create a new folder too. Safari only allows you to choose a specific folder in the preferences menu (and why isn't there a Preferences button for the tool bar?).
5. Another thing with the download feature is if a file fails to download it won't appear in the Download window. IE does with an error icon. And only one download at a time? Come on Apple...you can set up multiple downloads in IE!
(I haven't tried the feature of downloading a .bin, .sit or .dmg file yet)
6. Bookmarks? Meh...about the same as IE. I don't see anything amazing there...
Will I use Safari? No, I'll play around with it. But I'll keep IE. I really love IE after this experience. But with all browsers in beta...they take time. Safari needs a lot of work.
And personally I think Apple made a HUGE mistake getting into the browser market... <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: Artman @_@ ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
1.) Safari is rediculously faster than IE, and I connect at ~24Kb/s most of the time, due to my crappy phone line.
2.) True.
3.) What? I get a normal message window, with the address in the To: field.
4.) The window may not be much, but it's simple and small, I'll give it that. As for changing the download location, it is very changable. Have you not figured out how to navigate the default dialogs in Mac OS X via the keyboard yet? And yes, it does need a new folder button.
5.) Yeah, the download manager is crap when you want to download more than one file. Even when you hit the 'x' button, the next download wont start. And there is no way to clear only one download at a time, without selecting something other than manual in the preferences.
6.) The bookmarks are great because of the way they are set up. Collections are a great way to manage bookmarks if you have hundreds and hundreds and don't want them all cloging up your bookmark menu. Big submenus are jerky on my iMac Rev. B, so I particularly like this. On top of that, I get all of the homepages of all of my friends straight from my Address Book. Plus, the navigation is very simple and iApp like, not buggy trash like IE and OmniWeb.
<strong>1. Does not work with homestarrunner.com which I just submitted to Apple.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Haven't had any trouble with HomeStarRunner (which, BTW, is awesome, if you're lookin for a good laugh, check it out)
Overall, I love Safari, like most, I'd like tabs, and I was pleased to find that there is indeed a status bar. And for those who seem to love IE so much, I just don't see it. In 9, I used Netscape 4.x, and I was thrilled to find Mozilla, and then Chimera shortly after switching to X about a year ago. I can't stand IE, particularly having gotten used to the speed, and other great features in Chimera (tabs, pop-up blocking, etc.) Also, right after downloading Safari, I loaded up a few different sites side by side in Chimera and Safari (iMac DV 400, 56k) Safari loaded every page faster, and I know from previous tests that Chimera is faster than IE.
Now, don't suppose anyone knows how to turn on that turbo pipeline downloading or whatever in Safari, or if it can be turned on. I got a definite (if not huge) improvement in Chimera after switching that on a few weeks back.
<strong>4.)As for changing the download location, it is very changable. Have you not figured out how to navigate the default dialogs in Mac OS X via the keyboard yet?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Could someone give me an idea how that's done? I've had issues with that. Like typing a letter to get down or up the list of files or folders in the dialogue boxes. A link perhaps to an illustrated diagram...
Oh, and it's ridiculous...
<strong>
Oh, and it's ridiculous...
<hr></blockquote>
Are you talking download + page rendering or just throughput on a big file?
I've heard some conflicting reports and would like to see this properly settled. The i-bench tests that apple use are pants if I remember correctly, measuring how long it takes for javascript to cycle through a loop a million times or so and other unlikely scenarios.
I believe that Mozilla has a bank of speed tests that it uses to measure its progress in speed tuning, I wonder if you can download and test against them?
I'm also wondering about how multithreaded Safari is as this is a big weakness of the Mozilla code.
Some comments on how much work was done on the networking code would also be nice, I've heard reports of this being a current flaw in Safari.
I must say that I have a sneaking suspicion that Safari will take a giant leap in performance before final release, hopefully to the point where there is no doubt about the winner.