I'm not talking about the iPhone but in more general terms.... Do we not get cell phones from the SAME MANUFACTURERS as the rest of the world?!?! Nokia, Motorola, Sharp, etc... I have to assume yes... so then WHAT is the reason we poor and suffering Americans are SOOOOO behind?!?! Are those companies purposely NOT allowing the phones into the US and if so then they MUST have a reason... A reason that I'm totally missing... Can someone enlighten?!?!
You may get phones from the same manufacturers but not all of the models and not all of the features. Verizon and Sprint operate on a completely different technology than the 'rest of the world'. AT&T & T-Mobile operate on the same as the 'rest of the world' for 2G technology but they diverge for 3G using different frequencies.
Typically the carriers in the USA also don't pick up on the latest features, disable some of them and have different charging structures to how the 'rest of the world' operates. So you see growth in SMS, MMS, Video, Bluetooth and phones that do those well elsewhere but not in the USA. That's partly why it's important to people outside the USA and why the iPhone is a bit weak in those areas as far as we're concerned outside the USA. I'm sure Apple will fix that though.
Some of that concern is FOR Apple I'd add. The last thing I as an Apple fan want is for them to release something lame and expensive here to have their arse whipped by Nokia or Sony Ericsson and then Symbian sit back on their laurels again and we're stuck with more of the same old clunky UIs that have typically been used on phones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGee
Also why am I ALWAYS given the impression that 'EVERYWHERE BUT THE US' you can get 'THE HOTTEST' ... 'THE LATEST' ... 'THE COOLEST' new cell phone for little or no money... and we POOR americans have to pay the VERY TOP DOLLAR... I mean I realize that IS NOT TRUE... it is people just talking trash artificially inflating their ego?
Dave
It usually is true. You've just got to watch the phones roll past on Engadget Mobile to know they appear in Europe and Asia way before the USA and the way phone companies work in Europe, they're usually more heavily subsidised. Even Motorola's phones get released in Europe first these days.
Apple would be the only counter example I can think of, and quite an obvious one. You've only got to laugh at the state of AppleTV here in Europe. I mean, just what do Apple expect us to use it for?
We're hoping the same won't happen with the iPhone because it's almost AppleTV-esque in it's lack of European features.
Re: the debate about SMS, MMS etc, I reckon Apple haven't gone far enough personally. They shouldn't have SMS, MMS OR Email on the iPhone. They should just have one Mail application that receives/sends all three and it picks the method appropriately depending on the contact type. Essentially SMS, MMS and Email all do the same thing just over different transports and with different restrictions.
Well first bavlondon2 is obviously nuts?nor can he handle the idea of spelling and grammar?and doesn't understand telecommunications (hi, heads up: Europe uses plenty of GSM). His ignorance is almost as scary as the appalling misunderstanding of economics by just about everybody (no wait, nowhere near as scary. Just bothersome). I'd argue, but I just don't care about him. You on the other hand are a board member in good standing, so?
The mobile market is years ahead in Japan and Europe. Several years. In network speed, what network can do, hardware, software (not, obviously, user interface), and the like.
This is for a couple reasons. First off in Japan operators spend a great of money on R&D. The world's first 3G network went live there in freakin' 2001 after all. Secondly the advanced network features combined with heavily subsidized phones (actually a bad thing now, but good then) eventually kicked up an upwards spiral in advanced functions as so many people were using mobiles and doing more and more things.
In Japan you can do: scan a barcode to get a description of anything from business cards to ads and have that information automatically entered correctly on your phone (all the way to 1-click ordering of products), location services of various sorts, e-cash with fingerprint scanner security and just by pressing it against a terminal, mobile TV, etc? That said their mobile UI sucks just as much as everybody else except Apple's.
Because Japanese 2G networks were different from the rest of the world advanced Japanese phones couldn't be used (and their phone manufactures couldn't sell them) in the rest of the world. This slowed the rest of the world as they weren't spending as much on network and mobile R&D.
Europe is probably entering that same upward spiral of what a mobile can handle right about now as operators begin to get a clue about 3G services.
The USA (and Canada) both have a larger landmass to cover and had to deal with the insane FCC (it's US, but Canadians are stuck going along with them) which licensed spectrum at different frequencies to the rest of the world. This prevented interoperability of mobiles until tri- and quad-band chips which took a few years and slowed down the USA from Europe/world outside Japan/South Korea market.
There are other reasons, too, but above is a very condensed version of the story.
I dont have much time now to type so ill go inot more detail later to explain my arguments but for the record. Europe also has phones with barcode readers although that hasnt taken of that much. Nokia have used them since the N93.
SJ understands his market and to be honest much of what you people ask for may come later but for now i use BT for handsfree op of phone and use it for voice dialing...... absolute must have.
camera---ok ok i've used mine maybe 25 times in 3 years, video never
test messaging yea all the time mostly to google
3g--i've got to have this so that i can justify paying big $$$$$$ and spread it over 3 years.
more gigs must be coming we should have a forum about how much people use over the next 3 months that will be very telling.....my v551 has minimal memory
lets see how much i need right now if just using what i want to use from my v551
1-2gb max for music(love my shuffle)
.3gb for address book(probably much less)
1gb for pictures (i'm guessing becasue thats what my wife has on her 8gb nano red--way cool
so how much does video take per movie???
so out the door i'll need minimum 2-3 gb so maybe and 8 is enough 16/ 32 would be better for the future though.
The USA (and Canada) both have a larger landmass to cover
Japan Land Mass: 377 THOUSAND SQ. KM
Italy Land Mass: 301 THOUSAND SQ. KM
United Kingdom: 244 THOUSAND SQ. KM
To put this into perspective:
Texas Land Mass: 267 THOUSAND SQ. KM
- Bigger than the UK
- Almost the size of Italy
- just over 2/3rd's the size of Japan
Yes the coverage sizes we're talking about are quite different.. especially when we look at the US as a whole...
USA Land Mass: 9 MILLION 629 THOUSAND SQ. KM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric Monk
and had to deal with the insane FCC (it's US, but Canadians are stuck going along with them) which licensed spectrum at different frequencies to the rest of the world.
Come again, .... I'm not sure you have your facts straight on this... Unless I'm dreadfully misinformed... The FCC has no authority outside the boarders of the US... But I think the U.N. has some 'global policies' in place to manage each countries airways (so that the US doesn't stomp on Canada or Mexico or the U.K. doesn't trample Germany or France etc etc etc... The FCC isn't the 'frequency police for the World' nor are they the 'frequency licensor' for the World.
Come again, .... I'm not sure you have your facts straight on this... Unless I'm dreadfully misinformed... The FCC has no authority outside the boarders of the US... But I think the U.N. has some 'global policies' in place to manage each countries airways (so that the US doesn't stomp on Canada or Mexico or the U.K. doesn't trample Germany or France etc etc etc... The FCC isn't the 'frequency police for the World' nor are they the 'frequency licensor' for the World.
Dave
Wait. Are you arguing or agreeing with my landmass point? Yes, Europe and the United States are rather similar in size but Europe has a population quite a bit higher which makes rolling out network service somewhat cheaper (density).
That said the USA still has the population density of say Finland which has 100% coverage. US networks still suck for their own reasons, but they have been somewhat hampered by other reasons.
Of course the FCC has no power outside the United States. However do you think Canadians are dumb enough to use the world GSM and UMTS frequencies when we do most of our trade and travel and business with the United States? Of course not. So we're stuck with whatever frequencies you guys use.
The FCC is, however, dumb enough to consistently pick non-standard frequencies and leave consumers screwed and waiting for multi-band radios which take years.
The iPhone's UI is anovelty, like a sparkler or some party favor? And here I thought it set the bar for what a cell phone interface should be and will be in the future. I guess all these companies that are trying to copy it are just on the novelty bandwagon. I guess someone should tell them that an easy to use, intuitive interface is just a passing fad.
I'm not aware of the EU's cell phones but I, being a stupid American, was not aware that all the EU phones had WiFi, 160ppi displays with multitouch, Visual Voicemail, >600MHz CPUs, 128MB RAM and multiple GB of storage. Or did you mean that just a couple of the HW specs, like EDGE and the lack of GPS, are behind the average EU phone with your disdainful remarks?
I originally would have liked the phone to be thicker to include HSDPA, GPS and a larger battery accommodate for these energy sucking devices. But after holding the iPhone I found it to be quite weighty as Apple really engineered the device to hold a lot more than the average phone. And GPS is pretty pointless when Google Maps over EDGE will give me turn-by-turn directions. The only reason a full fledged GPS system would be if I were in an unmapped location, like the Congo. But I feel it's more advantaageous that I have a dedicated GPS with a long lasting battery and sat phone the next time I'm there. \
You tell 'em, solipsism! Funny how all the people who have never even held an iPhone are so friggin' knowledgeable about its shortcomings and clueless about what makes it so impressive, e.g., its stunning screen and revolutionary interface (which makes any other phone look like a vintage rotary dial--if you're old enough to even know what that is). I had no intention at all of buying an iPhone and planned to wait for v2.0 yet after actually trying the device, I bought one the next day and have no regrets whatsoever because It's precisely what I was looking for in a smart phone and much more. And, after a software update or two, it will really kick butt.
I played with the iphone for an good solid hour at an Apple store. I really liked it but am torn right now between buying one and waiting 3-6 months to see how it's improved. Very very cool though and blows anything out of the water from any other phone at any price range (even with some of the shortcomings).
Some things that should be added and observations:
1) why (or can you) not use the keypad in horizontal mode?? I'm thinking you could have bigger on screen keypad and use thumbs.
I tried just using my thumbs (like on my blackberry to type a message) and for some reason way too many mistakes. not sure what it was. However, when I used it with one finger it was fairly accurate but slower and a little less convenient than the blackberry thumb method.
It really does need a horizontal view with keypad entry.
2) additional multitouch options: I really didn't like the mechanical volume on the top left. somethose i thought that should be a multitouch type surface. In fact, on each edge should have a multitouch surface for sliding or clicking, in addition to the screen. even though the blackberry is old tech, the thumb wheel is pretty good at quick navigation.
3) wasn't sure if you record video on the camera? If not why not? i wonder if they could put a reverisible type camera (like on a clie i had, but i'm sure that would look tacky) to do im video as well as cameria/video.
4) too many clicks for somethings...so apple should revise the number of clicks to get to a major feature
5) web browsing is nice and renders a normal site pretty good; i'm thinking there should be a view size % (like you have in excel and word, show doc at x% scale) instead of constanly using the thumb and forefinger to enlarge and shrink. that trick gets old after a while
6) Option for a stylus? What about if you just want to take notes. In fact is there a paint type program availalbe or due.
7) Speed on doingin some things (like cover flow, shricnk/enlarge webpages, etc) seem relatively slow (faster than a normal phone, but they this is so much like my computer that i'm comparing against that). process upgrade in the works? Even opening some websites using the wifi in an apple store seemed much slower then what it should be; i shudder to think if it ran straight EDGE.
8) So where's and when does 3G come to town??
9) For as pretty and sharp as th screen was, how about the screen surface extending the full front and not leave the .5 edges to the speaker / ear piece (can't that be built into the aluminum bezel?). Use the full area for screen display.
10) have concerns about battery life. with as thin as it is why not sell a slighl thicker version with longer battery life (20-25% more) and maybe a 60+ gig mini hard disk.
11) speakerphone was too low at full volume, and speaker itself for music had a tinny sound (yes i know use a headset). i use the speakerphone (for biz) with others in a room for a quick conf call.
12) was there a kind of finder app to switch through open apps? i used the button in the front to go to the main menu which was time consuming..
13) GPS..if you have google maps why not have it?? speaking of which, the renderin of google maps, even in using apples wifi, was slow.
14) i'm waiting to see the quality and depths of apps or widgets come out. the only concern is how much space is there, and the speed and memory needed to run them at the speed i would expect.
1) why (or can you) not use the keypad in horizontal mode?? I'm thinking you could have bigger on screen keypad and use thumbs.
? There are some apps you can use it in landscape mode, but it should be available in every mode. This can be added with a simple SW update via iTunes.
I tried just using my thumbs (like on my blackberry to type a message) and for some reason way too many mistakes. not sure what it was. However, when I used it with one finger it was fairly accurate but slower and a little less convenient than the blackberry thumb method.
? Th consensus is that your accuracy will improve and you'll be typing faster than with a plastic-keyboarded smartphone within a few days.
2) additional multitouch options: I really didn't like the mechanical volume on the top left. somethose i thought that should be a multitouch type surface. In fact, on each edge should have a multitouch surface for sliding or clicking, in addition to the screen. even though the blackberry is old tech, the thumb wheel is pretty good at quick navigation.
? I disagree. I want to be able to adjust the volume or turn the ringer on/off without looking at the phone while it's in my pocket. To make a virtual volume control Apple would have to clutter the top of the display with another option that is always there but used only sparingly.
3) wasn't sure if you record video on the camera? If not why not? i wonder if they could put a reverisible type camera (like on a clie i had, but i'm sure that would look tacky) to do im video as well as cameria/video.
? You can't. Maybe it wasn't ready or maybe it's part of the AT&T deal (but I can't see why) or maybe Apple didn't want to add it for certain reasons, like using the free PR from an iPhone update that now adds support for full motion video at 640x480 resolution, for example.
I think once Apple and AT&T can get into 3 or 4G will will see an iPhone with a second, front-facing camera. I expect this revision is a couple years off.
4) too many clicks for somethings...so apple should revise the number of clicks to get to a major feature
? I've read a few complaints about that and some of those may be able to be fixed in a SW update.
5) web browsing is nice and renders a normal site pretty good; i'm thinking there should be a view size % (like you have in excel and word, show doc at x% scale) instead of constanly using the thumb and forefinger to enlarge and shrink. that trick gets old after a while
? I don't like the percentage option. MobileSafari can no only utlilze the the spread and pinch function but it's intuitive that if you double-tap on a section of text or an image in either portrait or landscape mode it will auto-enlarge to fit the screen. I think that solution is decades about the archaic one used in MS Office.
6) Option for a stylus? What about if you just want to take notes. In fact is there a paint type program availalbe or due.
? As I understand it, a typical stylus won't work because the iPhone isn't like your typical touch-screen. It doesn't register pressure against a membrane it registers electrical charge from your fingers. I guess a simple device could mimic a human digit but this would be awkward for a multi-touch display unless you are proficient in the use of chopsticks. I just don't see a need for a paint program on the iPhone.
7) Speed on doingin some things (like cover flow, shricnk/enlarge webpages, etc) seem relatively slow (faster than a normal phone, but they this is so much like my computer that i'm comparing against that). process upgrade in the works? Even opening some websites using the wifi in an apple store seemed much slower then what it should be; i shudder to think if it ran straight EDGE.
? Apple has had a good reputation with Mac OS X that each new version is better optimized than the last. I think the iPhone's OS X will also follow this rule, if not more so. The device reportedly has a low-power 620MHz ARM processor. To compare this to your home PC with a full GPU and such just isn't very fair. For a cell phone or iPod it's very responsible.
8) So where's and when does 3G come to town??
? No one knows. There are too many factors that have to be determined to make a decent guess.
9) For as pretty and sharp as th screen was, how about the screen surface extending the full front and not leave the .5 edges to the speaker / ear piece (can't that be built into the aluminum bezel?). Use the full area for screen display.
? I think that the speaker needs to be on the front. I've never seen a phone done differently. I think the screen is big enough as it is and it allows for a future upgrade to maintain that style and add a front-face camera. Who knows, maybe it will be a full display front in future iterations.
10) have concerns about battery life. with as thin as it is why not sell a slighl thicker version with longer battery life (20-25% more) and maybe a 60+ gig mini hard disk.
? If you add a HDD you would have to add a larger battery to maintain the current battery life. As it is the battery life is very good. I think the Blackberry Curve is the only one that outlasts in certain tests. Even though it's smaller than other phones it is quite a bit heavier due to it's density. I think a Flash based cellphone is the right way to go when it come to reliability, speed and power consumption. It's generally excepted that the 6G iPod will mimic the iPod, use OS X and have at least 100 GB HDD, multi-touch and wireless capabilities.
11) speakerphone was too low at full volume, and speaker itself for music had a tinny sound (yes i know use a headset). i use the speakerphone (for biz) with others in a room for a quick conf call.
? How was the call? I assume that the speakers aer optimized for voice calling ot music.
12) was there a kind of finder app to switch through open apps? i used the button in the front to go to the main menu which was time consuming..
? Time consuming to hit the Home button? I don't think I follow you. Look at it this way, 16 apps are always running. If you switch from Safari to take a call and then check the weather they are always working.
13) GPS..if you have google maps why not have it?? speaking of which, the renderin of google maps, even in using apples wifi, was slow.
? GPS will take space, cost money and suck the battery life like the Energizer vampire. GPS phones do not last very long before recahrging. I've heard--but have not tested--the use of Google Maps to give turn-by-turn directions works out quite well with EDGE. That is a low-energy solution that will work out well for 99.9% of the people. If you do a lot of driving, planning to sail around the world or are finally taking that trip to Antartica I suggest you invest in a dedicated GPS system. I'm quite happy with my TomTom.
14) i'm waiting to see the quality and depths of apps or widgets come out. the only concern is how much space is there, and the speed and memory needed to run them at the speed i would expect.
? The OS apparently takes 700MB. Widgets are typically only a few hundred KB but they can be several MBs, like Flight Tracker.wdgt.After all, they are only JS and HTML. This still pales in comparison to the 4 or 8GB capacity of the iPhone. There are 4 free spaces on the iPhone's home screen. I hope to see free widgets for things like currency and unit conversion, tracking flights and a translator for frequent travelers. These just seem like a must to me, but I expect to see many more converted for the iPhone's interface. I would also like to see a way to reorganize the icons to best suit the user and have the ability to create home screen folder for things like multiple widgets.
Japanese 2G were partly rolled out in Europe (eg japan's Docomo iMode tech). KPN (Holland), Base (Belgium), Bouygues Telecom (France) used it's E-GSM standard to offer mail and web for fixed monthly fees.
To end the EU vs. US bashing:
- Smart phones are always first released in EU/Japan before US partly because of FCC regulations partly due to carrier restrictions.
- Smart phones aren't that widespread in EU as in Japan.
- Blackberrys are only just (couple of years) becoming popular with European businesses, this is a North-American tech. Push e-mail on the other hand did exist before.
- Apple has to include 3G for its iPhone offering in EU/Japan, this will happen because cost is not that much higher for production and carriers will be so happy to finally cash in on too high license fees and masts costs.
Most europeans have cheap, small cell phones like they had in Asia couple of years ago. Trend of bigger multifunctional cell phone is for the near future (Nokia is actually thrilled the iPhone will boost this segment). I don't see anyone paying with their cell phone yet (outside some small projects and SMS parking) in the EU.
Japanese 2G were partly rolled out in Europe (eg japan's Docomo iMode tech). KPN (Holland), Base (Belgium), Bouygues Telecom (France) used it's E-GSM standard to offer mail and web for fixed monthly fees.
Most europeans have cheap, small cell phones like they had in Asia couple of years ago. Trend of bigger multifunctional cell phone is for the near future (Nokia is actually thrilled the iPhone will boost this segment). I don't see anyone paying with their cell phone yet (outside some small projects and SMS parking) in the EU.
Japan's 2G standard had nothing to do with NTT DoCoMo's iMode internet gateway. One is software (iMode), the other is hardware (Japan/some parts of Asia 2G network).
Otherwise yes, the European market is on the verge of rapidly advancing in network, software, and hardware features as Japan currently uses from barcodes to e-cash to location services. Which is desperately needed by the operators given how much freakin' money they spent on 3G.
Who here knows the history of Apple vs. Microsoft philosophies? I'm glad to see that Apple partnered with Google & Yahoo on this phone. It was certainly a step in the right direction....but opening it up to 3rd party developers...hahaha...no more likely than seeing this OS on a motorolla phone. Apple is a FIRM believer that when you give up control of EITHER the software or the hardware, you give up control of quality and the "apple experience". To some degree, that is not entirely untrue. Most microsoft based handheld devices are buggy, confusing, crashing pieces of crap....they claim to do everything, and they do, but most of it they don't do well. Apple claims to do far less, but what it does, it does very well.
I think Apple needs to go after the current problems before adding features. They need fix the phone call volume....I don't think this is hardware issue because the ipod plays at much higher volume. Then, they need to address the Google Maps, and Safari browser crashes. Happens a few times a day if you use either app regularly.
I think that Apple is going to win over a LOT of people if they deliver on software updates. $600 for a phone is a lot of money, but it feels better knowing new and great things are coming your way soon.
? As I understand it, a typical stylus won't work because the iPhone isn't like your typical touch-screen. It doesn't register pressure against a membrane it registers electrical charge from your fingers. I guess a simple device could mimic a human digit but this would be awkward for a multi-touch display unless you are proficient in the use of chopsticks. I just don't see a need for a paint program on the iPhone.
You've never had the need to sketch down a drawing/idea?
You've never had the need to sketch out directions for someone and MMS it over to them?
You've never had to sign a form/fax and mail it back?
You've never wanted to take a picture of something and draw an arrow on it and MMS it to someone?
Happens fairly regularly for me. I'm sure someone will work out a basic drawing tool at some point that works with your finger. I presume the iPhone knows where the center of the finger tip is so you'd just need a cross hair cursor following that point around but I suspect it'll be like fingerpainting to a stylus' scribbles. It could be quite cool with multi touch though, letting you zoom in/out to draw with vectors instead of bitmaps.
You've never had the need to sketch down a drawing/idea?
You've never had the need to sketch out directions for someone and MMS it over to them?
You've never had to sign a form/fax and mail it back?
You've never wanted to take a picture of something and draw an arrow on it and MMS it to someone?
Happens fairly regularly for me. I'm sure someone will work out a basic drawing tool at some point that works with your finger. I presume the iPhone knows where the center of the finger tip is so you'd just need a cross hair cursor following that point around but I suspect it'll be like fingerpainting to a stylus' scribbles. It could be quite cool with multi touch though, letting you zoom in/out to draw with vectors instead of bitmaps.
Idea: Not that I can recall. I usually just type it out. But I see your point.
Directions: I've never really had a need. I guess I would email someone a Google Maps location if needed. But if it's off the grid you have a point.
Signature: I do keep a digital signature on my computer but I still have to fax it. No one ever accepts an emailed PDF. But, again I see you point.
Picture: Never, but that would be fun and occasional handy.
Segue: They should add a Mr. Potato Head feature to PhotoBooth.
Question: Why we're on the subject, OS X still doesn't have a drawing tool. Is there an alternative to jumping back to MS Paint?
Idea: Not that I can recall. I usually just type it out. But I see your point.
Actually, these days I quite often just draw it on paper and take a photo. Maybe the iPhone camera is ok for that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
Directions: I've never really had a need. I guess I would email someone a Google Maps location if needed. But if it's off the grid you have a point.
Emailing them isn't much use if they're out and about with their phone only. With MMS you know it's going to get there fairly quickly too unlike email that can sometimes take hours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
Signature: I do keep a digital signature on my computer but I still have to fax it. No one ever accepts an emailed PDF. But, again I see you point.
I use an email to fax gateway. They never know I don't have a fax machine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
Picture: Never, but that would be fun and occasional handy.
That's kind of the point (especially with MMS). It's often just fun and occasionally handy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
Segue: They should add a Mr. Potato Head feature to PhotoBooth.
And they should add PhotoBooth and a front facing iSight camera in to the iPhone. I was surprised they didn't. But then that's usually a feature of 3G phones only.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
Question: Why we're on the subject, OS X still doesn't have a drawing tool. Is there an alternative to jumping back to MS Paint?
It's surprising isn't it. I can't say I miss an MS Paint level program what with having Photoshop there (although I'm trying to ditch it) but I'm surprised Apple haven't done a basic Mac Paint program for OSX. I'm sure there's plenty of free equivalents though on macupdate.com
I've often though Apple could do themselves a favour by picking up Intaglio (an OSX equivalent of MacDraw) and including it in iWork and I'd think there would be a MacPaint equivalent too but I've just not looked.
It's surprising isn't it. I can't say I miss an MS Paint level program what with having Photoshop there (although I'm trying to ditch it) but I'm surprised Apple haven't done a basic Mac Paint program for OSX. I'm sure there's plenty of free equivalents though on macupdate.com
I've often though Apple could do themselves a favour by picking up Intaglio (an OSX equivalent of MacDraw) and including it in iWork and I'd think there would be a MacPaint equivalent too but I've just not looked.
the original Mac had a paint program. I would think that a slightly revamped Preview.app with simple options for brush strokes, shapes, etc would be a welcome addition. As it stands right now, I can only recall using Windows on Parallels for MS Paint and some .EXE Cisco simulators.
Comments
This is the part that I just DON'T GET...
I'm not talking about the iPhone but in more general terms.... Do we not get cell phones from the SAME MANUFACTURERS as the rest of the world?!?! Nokia, Motorola, Sharp, etc... I have to assume yes... so then WHAT is the reason we poor and suffering Americans are SOOOOO behind?!?! Are those companies purposely NOT allowing the phones into the US and if so then they MUST have a reason... A reason that I'm totally missing... Can someone enlighten?!?!
You may get phones from the same manufacturers but not all of the models and not all of the features. Verizon and Sprint operate on a completely different technology than the 'rest of the world'. AT&T & T-Mobile operate on the same as the 'rest of the world' for 2G technology but they diverge for 3G using different frequencies.
Typically the carriers in the USA also don't pick up on the latest features, disable some of them and have different charging structures to how the 'rest of the world' operates. So you see growth in SMS, MMS, Video, Bluetooth and phones that do those well elsewhere but not in the USA. That's partly why it's important to people outside the USA and why the iPhone is a bit weak in those areas as far as we're concerned outside the USA. I'm sure Apple will fix that though.
Some of that concern is FOR Apple I'd add. The last thing I as an Apple fan want is for them to release something lame and expensive here to have their arse whipped by Nokia or Sony Ericsson and then Symbian sit back on their laurels again and we're stuck with more of the same old clunky UIs that have typically been used on phones.
Also why am I ALWAYS given the impression that 'EVERYWHERE BUT THE US' you can get 'THE HOTTEST' ... 'THE LATEST' ... 'THE COOLEST' new cell phone for little or no money... and we POOR americans have to pay the VERY TOP DOLLAR... I mean I realize that IS NOT TRUE... it is people just talking trash artificially inflating their ego?
Dave
It usually is true. You've just got to watch the phones roll past on Engadget Mobile to know they appear in Europe and Asia way before the USA and the way phone companies work in Europe, they're usually more heavily subsidised. Even Motorola's phones get released in Europe first these days.
Apple would be the only counter example I can think of, and quite an obvious one. You've only got to laugh at the state of AppleTV here in Europe. I mean, just what do Apple expect us to use it for?
We're hoping the same won't happen with the iPhone because it's almost AppleTV-esque in it's lack of European features.
Re: the debate about SMS, MMS etc, I reckon Apple haven't gone far enough personally. They shouldn't have SMS, MMS OR Email on the iPhone. They should just have one Mail application that receives/sends all three and it picks the method appropriately depending on the contact type. Essentially SMS, MMS and Email all do the same thing just over different transports and with different restrictions.
Well first bavlondon2 is obviously nuts?nor can he handle the idea of spelling and grammar?and doesn't understand telecommunications (hi, heads up: Europe uses plenty of GSM). His ignorance is almost as scary as the appalling misunderstanding of economics by just about everybody (no wait, nowhere near as scary. Just bothersome). I'd argue, but I just don't care about him. You on the other hand are a board member in good standing, so?
The mobile market is years ahead in Japan and Europe. Several years. In network speed, what network can do, hardware, software (not, obviously, user interface), and the like.
This is for a couple reasons. First off in Japan operators spend a great of money on R&D. The world's first 3G network went live there in freakin' 2001 after all. Secondly the advanced network features combined with heavily subsidized phones (actually a bad thing now, but good then) eventually kicked up an upwards spiral in advanced functions as so many people were using mobiles and doing more and more things.
In Japan you can do: scan a barcode to get a description of anything from business cards to ads and have that information automatically entered correctly on your phone (all the way to 1-click ordering of products), location services of various sorts, e-cash with fingerprint scanner security and just by pressing it against a terminal, mobile TV, etc? That said their mobile UI sucks just as much as everybody else except Apple's.
Because Japanese 2G networks were different from the rest of the world advanced Japanese phones couldn't be used (and their phone manufactures couldn't sell them) in the rest of the world. This slowed the rest of the world as they weren't spending as much on network and mobile R&D.
Europe is probably entering that same upward spiral of what a mobile can handle right about now as operators begin to get a clue about 3G services.
The USA (and Canada) both have a larger landmass to cover and had to deal with the insane FCC (it's US, but Canadians are stuck going along with them) which licensed spectrum at different frequencies to the rest of the world. This prevented interoperability of mobiles until tri- and quad-band chips which took a few years and slowed down the USA from Europe/world outside Japan/South Korea market.
There are other reasons, too, but above is a very condensed version of the story.
I dont have much time now to type so ill go inot more detail later to explain my arguments but for the record. Europe also has phones with barcode readers although that hasnt taken of that much. Nokia have used them since the N93.
camera---ok ok i've used mine maybe 25 times in 3 years, video never
test messaging yea all the time mostly to google
3g--i've got to have this so that i can justify paying big $$$$$$ and spread it over 3 years.
more gigs must be coming we should have a forum about how much people use over the next 3 months that will be very telling.....my v551 has minimal memory
lets see how much i need right now if just using what i want to use from my v551
1-2gb max for music(love my shuffle)
.3gb for address book(probably much less)
1gb for pictures (i'm guessing becasue thats what my wife has on her 8gb nano red--way cool
so how much does video take per movie???
so out the door i'll need minimum 2-3 gb so maybe and 8 is enough 16/ 32 would be better for the future though.
The USA (and Canada) both have a larger landmass to cover
Japan Land Mass: 377 THOUSAND SQ. KM
Italy Land Mass: 301 THOUSAND SQ. KM
United Kingdom: 244 THOUSAND SQ. KM
To put this into perspective:
Texas Land Mass: 267 THOUSAND SQ. KM
- Bigger than the UK
- Almost the size of Italy
- just over 2/3rd's the size of Japan
Yes the coverage sizes we're talking about are quite different.. especially when we look at the US as a whole...
USA Land Mass: 9 MILLION 629 THOUSAND SQ. KM
and had to deal with the insane FCC (it's US, but Canadians are stuck going along with them) which licensed spectrum at different frequencies to the rest of the world.
Come again, .... I'm not sure you have your facts straight on this... Unless I'm dreadfully misinformed... The FCC has no authority outside the boarders of the US... But I think the U.N. has some 'global policies' in place to manage each countries airways (so that the US doesn't stomp on Canada or Mexico or the U.K. doesn't trample Germany or France etc etc etc... The FCC isn't the 'frequency police for the World' nor are they the 'frequency licensor' for the World.
Dave
Man, if Apple can get two s/w upgrades in by Christmas, they are set to do alot more than 1 million in one year.
Did you mean 10 million in one year? From what I have read they are already between 500,000 and 700,000.
Come again, .... I'm not sure you have your facts straight on this... Unless I'm dreadfully misinformed... The FCC has no authority outside the boarders of the US... But I think the U.N. has some 'global policies' in place to manage each countries airways (so that the US doesn't stomp on Canada or Mexico or the U.K. doesn't trample Germany or France etc etc etc... The FCC isn't the 'frequency police for the World' nor are they the 'frequency licensor' for the World.
Dave
Wait. Are you arguing or agreeing with my landmass point?
That said the USA still has the population density of say Finland which has 100% coverage. US networks still suck for their own reasons, but they have been somewhat hampered by other reasons.
Of course the FCC has no power outside the United States. However do you think Canadians are dumb enough to use the world GSM and UMTS frequencies when we do most of our trade and travel and business with the United States? Of course not. So we're stuck with whatever frequencies you guys use.
The FCC is, however, dumb enough to consistently pick non-standard frequencies and leave consumers screwed and waiting for multi-band radios which take years.
The iPhone's UI is anovelty, like a sparkler or some party favor? And here I thought it set the bar for what a cell phone interface should be and will be in the future. I guess all these companies that are trying to copy it are just on the novelty bandwagon. I guess someone should tell them that an easy to use, intuitive interface is just a passing fad.
I'm not aware of the EU's cell phones but I, being a stupid American, was not aware that all the EU phones had WiFi, 160ppi displays with multitouch, Visual Voicemail, >600MHz CPUs, 128MB RAM and multiple GB of storage. Or did you mean that just a couple of the HW specs, like EDGE and the lack of GPS, are behind the average EU phone with your disdainful remarks?
I originally would have liked the phone to be thicker to include HSDPA, GPS and a larger battery accommodate for these energy sucking devices. But after holding the iPhone I found it to be quite weighty as Apple really engineered the device to hold a lot more than the average phone. And GPS is pretty pointless when Google Maps over EDGE will give me turn-by-turn directions. The only reason a full fledged GPS system would be if I were in an unmapped location, like the Congo. But I feel it's more advantaageous that I have a dedicated GPS with a long lasting battery and sat phone the next time I'm there.
You tell 'em, solipsism! Funny how all the people who have never even held an iPhone are so friggin' knowledgeable about its shortcomings and clueless about what makes it so impressive, e.g., its stunning screen and revolutionary interface (which makes any other phone look like a vintage rotary dial--if you're old enough to even know what that is). I had no intention at all of buying an iPhone and planned to wait for v2.0 yet after actually trying the device, I bought one the next day and have no regrets whatsoever because It's precisely what I was looking for in a smart phone and much more. And, after a software update or two, it will really kick butt.
Some things that should be added and observations:
1) why (or can you) not use the keypad in horizontal mode?? I'm thinking you could have bigger on screen keypad and use thumbs.
I tried just using my thumbs (like on my blackberry to type a message) and for some reason way too many mistakes. not sure what it was. However, when I used it with one finger it was fairly accurate but slower and a little less convenient than the blackberry thumb method.
It really does need a horizontal view with keypad entry.
2) additional multitouch options: I really didn't like the mechanical volume on the top left. somethose i thought that should be a multitouch type surface. In fact, on each edge should have a multitouch surface for sliding or clicking, in addition to the screen. even though the blackberry is old tech, the thumb wheel is pretty good at quick navigation.
3) wasn't sure if you record video on the camera? If not why not? i wonder if they could put a reverisible type camera (like on a clie i had, but i'm sure that would look tacky) to do im video as well as cameria/video.
4) too many clicks for somethings...so apple should revise the number of clicks to get to a major feature
5) web browsing is nice and renders a normal site pretty good; i'm thinking there should be a view size % (like you have in excel and word, show doc at x% scale) instead of constanly using the thumb and forefinger to enlarge and shrink. that trick gets old after a while
6) Option for a stylus? What about if you just want to take notes. In fact is there a paint type program availalbe or due.
7) Speed on doingin some things (like cover flow, shricnk/enlarge webpages, etc) seem relatively slow (faster than a normal phone, but they this is so much like my computer that i'm comparing against that). process upgrade in the works? Even opening some websites using the wifi in an apple store seemed much slower then what it should be; i shudder to think if it ran straight EDGE.
8) So where's and when does 3G come to town??
9) For as pretty and sharp as th screen was, how about the screen surface extending the full front and not leave the .5 edges to the speaker / ear piece (can't that be built into the aluminum bezel?). Use the full area for screen display.
10) have concerns about battery life. with as thin as it is why not sell a slighl thicker version with longer battery life (20-25% more) and maybe a 60+ gig mini hard disk.
11) speakerphone was too low at full volume, and speaker itself for music had a tinny sound (yes i know use a headset). i use the speakerphone (for biz) with others in a room for a quick conf call.
12) was there a kind of finder app to switch through open apps? i used the button in the front to go to the main menu which was time consuming..
13) GPS..if you have google maps why not have it?? speaking of which, the renderin of google maps, even in using apples wifi, was slow.
14) i'm waiting to see the quality and depths of apps or widgets come out. the only concern is how much space is there, and the speed and memory needed to run them at the speed i would expect.
13)
1) why (or can you) not use the keypad in horizontal mode?? I'm thinking you could have bigger on screen keypad and use thumbs.
? There are some apps you can use it in landscape mode, but it should be available in every mode. This can be added with a simple SW update via iTunes.
I tried just using my thumbs (like on my blackberry to type a message) and for some reason way too many mistakes. not sure what it was. However, when I used it with one finger it was fairly accurate but slower and a little less convenient than the blackberry thumb method.
? Th consensus is that your accuracy will improve and you'll be typing faster than with a plastic-keyboarded smartphone within a few days.
2) additional multitouch options: I really didn't like the mechanical volume on the top left. somethose i thought that should be a multitouch type surface. In fact, on each edge should have a multitouch surface for sliding or clicking, in addition to the screen. even though the blackberry is old tech, the thumb wheel is pretty good at quick navigation.
? I disagree. I want to be able to adjust the volume or turn the ringer on/off without looking at the phone while it's in my pocket. To make a virtual volume control Apple would have to clutter the top of the display with another option that is always there but used only sparingly.
3) wasn't sure if you record video on the camera? If not why not? i wonder if they could put a reverisible type camera (like on a clie i had, but i'm sure that would look tacky) to do im video as well as cameria/video.
? You can't. Maybe it wasn't ready or maybe it's part of the AT&T deal (but I can't see why) or maybe Apple didn't want to add it for certain reasons, like using the free PR from an iPhone update that now adds support for full motion video at 640x480 resolution, for example.
I think once Apple and AT&T can get into 3 or 4G will will see an iPhone with a second, front-facing camera. I expect this revision is a couple years off.
4) too many clicks for somethings...so apple should revise the number of clicks to get to a major feature
? I've read a few complaints about that and some of those may be able to be fixed in a SW update.
5) web browsing is nice and renders a normal site pretty good; i'm thinking there should be a view size % (like you have in excel and word, show doc at x% scale) instead of constanly using the thumb and forefinger to enlarge and shrink. that trick gets old after a while
? I don't like the percentage option. MobileSafari can no only utlilze the the spread and pinch function but it's intuitive that if you double-tap on a section of text or an image in either portrait or landscape mode it will auto-enlarge to fit the screen. I think that solution is decades about the archaic one used in MS Office.
6) Option for a stylus? What about if you just want to take notes. In fact is there a paint type program availalbe or due.
? As I understand it, a typical stylus won't work because the iPhone isn't like your typical touch-screen. It doesn't register pressure against a membrane it registers electrical charge from your fingers. I guess a simple device could mimic a human digit but this would be awkward for a multi-touch display unless you are proficient in the use of chopsticks.
7) Speed on doingin some things (like cover flow, shricnk/enlarge webpages, etc) seem relatively slow (faster than a normal phone, but they this is so much like my computer that i'm comparing against that). process upgrade in the works? Even opening some websites using the wifi in an apple store seemed much slower then what it should be; i shudder to think if it ran straight EDGE.
? Apple has had a good reputation with Mac OS X that each new version is better optimized than the last. I think the iPhone's OS X will also follow this rule, if not more so. The device reportedly has a low-power 620MHz ARM processor. To compare this to your home PC with a full GPU and such just isn't very fair. For a cell phone or iPod it's very responsible.
8) So where's and when does 3G come to town??
? No one knows. There are too many factors that have to be determined to make a decent guess.
9) For as pretty and sharp as th screen was, how about the screen surface extending the full front and not leave the .5 edges to the speaker / ear piece (can't that be built into the aluminum bezel?). Use the full area for screen display.
? I think that the speaker needs to be on the front. I've never seen a phone done differently. I think the screen is big enough as it is and it allows for a future upgrade to maintain that style and add a front-face camera. Who knows, maybe it will be a full display front in future iterations.
10) have concerns about battery life. with as thin as it is why not sell a slighl thicker version with longer battery life (20-25% more) and maybe a 60+ gig mini hard disk.
? If you add a HDD you would have to add a larger battery to maintain the current battery life. As it is the battery life is very good. I think the Blackberry Curve is the only one that outlasts in certain tests. Even though it's smaller than other phones it is quite a bit heavier due to it's density. I think a Flash based cellphone is the right way to go when it come to reliability, speed and power consumption. It's generally excepted that the 6G iPod will mimic the iPod, use OS X and have at least 100 GB HDD, multi-touch and wireless capabilities.
11) speakerphone was too low at full volume, and speaker itself for music had a tinny sound (yes i know use a headset). i use the speakerphone (for biz) with others in a room for a quick conf call.
? How was the call? I assume that the speakers aer optimized for voice calling ot music.
12) was there a kind of finder app to switch through open apps? i used the button in the front to go to the main menu which was time consuming..
? Time consuming to hit the Home button? I don't think I follow you. Look at it this way, 16 apps are always running. If you switch from Safari to take a call and then check the weather they are always working.
13) GPS..if you have google maps why not have it?? speaking of which, the renderin of google maps, even in using apples wifi, was slow.
? GPS will take space, cost money and suck the battery life like the Energizer vampire. GPS phones do not last very long before recahrging. I've heard--but have not tested--the use of Google Maps to give turn-by-turn directions works out quite well with EDGE. That is a low-energy solution that will work out well for 99.9% of the people. If you do a lot of driving, planning to sail around the world or are finally taking that trip to Antartica I suggest you invest in a dedicated GPS system. I'm quite happy with my TomTom.
14) i'm waiting to see the quality and depths of apps or widgets come out. the only concern is how much space is there, and the speed and memory needed to run them at the speed i would expect.
? The OS apparently takes 700MB. Widgets are typically only a few hundred KB but they can be several MBs, like Flight Tracker.wdgt.After all, they are only JS and HTML. This still pales in comparison to the 4 or 8GB capacity of the iPhone. There are 4 free spaces on the iPhone's home screen. I hope to see free widgets for things like currency and unit conversion, tracking flights and a translator for frequent travelers. These just seem like a must to me, but I expect to see many more converted for the iPhone's interface. I would also like to see a way to reorganize the icons to best suit the user and have the ability to create home screen folder for things like multiple widgets.
Welcome to the AI forums.
To end the EU vs. US bashing:
- Smart phones are always first released in EU/Japan before US partly because of FCC regulations partly due to carrier restrictions.
- Smart phones aren't that widespread in EU as in Japan.
- Blackberrys are only just (couple of years) becoming popular with European businesses, this is a North-American tech. Push e-mail on the other hand did exist before.
- Apple has to include 3G for its iPhone offering in EU/Japan, this will happen because cost is not that much higher for production and carriers will be so happy to finally cash in on too high license fees and masts costs.
Most europeans have cheap, small cell phones like they had in Asia couple of years ago. Trend of bigger multifunctional cell phone is for the near future (Nokia is actually thrilled the iPhone will boost this segment). I don't see anyone paying with their cell phone yet (outside some small projects and SMS parking) in the EU.
Japanese 2G were partly rolled out in Europe (eg japan's Docomo iMode tech). KPN (Holland), Base (Belgium), Bouygues Telecom (France) used it's E-GSM standard to offer mail and web for fixed monthly fees.
Most europeans have cheap, small cell phones like they had in Asia couple of years ago. Trend of bigger multifunctional cell phone is for the near future (Nokia is actually thrilled the iPhone will boost this segment). I don't see anyone paying with their cell phone yet (outside some small projects and SMS parking) in the EU.
Japan's 2G standard had nothing to do with NTT DoCoMo's iMode internet gateway. One is software (iMode), the other is hardware (Japan/some parts of Asia 2G network).
Otherwise yes, the European market is on the verge of rapidly advancing in network, software, and hardware features as Japan currently uses from barcodes to e-cash to location services. Which is desperately needed by the operators given how much freakin' money they spent on 3G.
I think Apple needs to go after the current problems before adding features. They need fix the phone call volume....I don't think this is hardware issue because the ipod plays at much higher volume. Then, they need to address the Google Maps, and Safari browser crashes. Happens a few times a day if you use either app regularly.
I think that Apple is going to win over a LOT of people if they deliver on software updates. $600 for a phone is a lot of money, but it feels better knowing new and great things are coming your way soon.
Replying to tomasfgt...
? As I understand it, a typical stylus won't work because the iPhone isn't like your typical touch-screen. It doesn't register pressure against a membrane it registers electrical charge from your fingers. I guess a simple device could mimic a human digit but this would be awkward for a multi-touch display unless you are proficient in the use of chopsticks.
You've never had the need to sketch down a drawing/idea?
You've never had the need to sketch out directions for someone and MMS it over to them?
You've never had to sign a form/fax and mail it back?
You've never wanted to take a picture of something and draw an arrow on it and MMS it to someone?
Happens fairly regularly for me. I'm sure someone will work out a basic drawing tool at some point that works with your finger. I presume the iPhone knows where the center of the finger tip is so you'd just need a cross hair cursor following that point around but I suspect it'll be like fingerpainting to a stylus' scribbles. It could be quite cool with multi touch though, letting you zoom in/out to draw with vectors instead of bitmaps.
You've never had the need to sketch down a drawing/idea?
You've never had the need to sketch out directions for someone and MMS it over to them?
You've never had to sign a form/fax and mail it back?
You've never wanted to take a picture of something and draw an arrow on it and MMS it to someone?
Happens fairly regularly for me. I'm sure someone will work out a basic drawing tool at some point that works with your finger. I presume the iPhone knows where the center of the finger tip is so you'd just need a cross hair cursor following that point around but I suspect it'll be like fingerpainting to a stylus' scribbles. It could be quite cool with multi touch though, letting you zoom in/out to draw with vectors instead of bitmaps.
Idea: Not that I can recall. I usually just type it out. But I see your point.
Directions: I've never really had a need. I guess I would email someone a Google Maps location if needed. But if it's off the grid you have a point.
Signature: I do keep a digital signature on my computer but I still have to fax it. No one ever accepts an emailed PDF. But, again I see you point.
Picture: Never, but that would be fun and occasional handy.
Segue: They should add a Mr. Potato Head feature to PhotoBooth.
Question: Why we're on the subject, OS X still doesn't have a drawing tool. Is there an alternative to jumping back to MS Paint?
Idea: Not that I can recall. I usually just type it out. But I see your point.
Actually, these days I quite often just draw it on paper and take a photo. Maybe the iPhone camera is ok for that?
Directions: I've never really had a need. I guess I would email someone a Google Maps location if needed. But if it's off the grid you have a point.
Emailing them isn't much use if they're out and about with their phone only. With MMS you know it's going to get there fairly quickly too unlike email that can sometimes take hours.
Signature: I do keep a digital signature on my computer but I still have to fax it. No one ever accepts an emailed PDF. But, again I see you point.
I use an email to fax gateway. They never know I don't have a fax machine.
Picture: Never, but that would be fun and occasional handy.
That's kind of the point (especially with MMS). It's often just fun and occasionally handy.
Segue: They should add a Mr. Potato Head feature to PhotoBooth.
And they should add PhotoBooth and a front facing iSight camera in to the iPhone. I was surprised they didn't. But then that's usually a feature of 3G phones only.
Question: Why we're on the subject, OS X still doesn't have a drawing tool. Is there an alternative to jumping back to MS Paint?
It's surprising isn't it. I can't say I miss an MS Paint level program what with having Photoshop there (although I'm trying to ditch it) but I'm surprised Apple haven't done a basic Mac Paint program for OSX. I'm sure there's plenty of free equivalents though on macupdate.com
I've often though Apple could do themselves a favour by picking up Intaglio (an OSX equivalent of MacDraw) and including it in iWork and I'd think there would be a MacPaint equivalent too but I've just not looked.
It's surprising isn't it. I can't say I miss an MS Paint level program what with having Photoshop there (although I'm trying to ditch it) but I'm surprised Apple haven't done a basic Mac Paint program for OSX. I'm sure there's plenty of free equivalents though on macupdate.com
I've often though Apple could do themselves a favour by picking up Intaglio (an OSX equivalent of MacDraw) and including it in iWork and I'd think there would be a MacPaint equivalent too but I've just not looked.
the original Mac had a paint program. I would think that a slightly revamped Preview.app with simple options for brush strokes, shapes, etc would be a welcome addition. As it stands right now, I can only recall using Windows on Parallels for MS Paint and some .EXE Cisco simulators.