It is here in Canada (given no unlimited data plan exists). And, like I said, I typically don't use those pay hotspots.
Right now the US is the only place that matters, as we are the only ones where the iPhone can be properly bought and used. Perhaps when it is available there, things will change. But, that's not the fault of the Treo or any other phones or services offered here, which is where it matters right now.
Quote:
One month after people figured out how to build and install apps on the iPhone and you're trying to hold that over my head. Gimme a break... ask me again in a few months. Even if Apple had released an SDK you wouldn't have all your apps available yet and you'd still be complaining.
Don't you guys pay attention to what's written?
I know it's been two months. I've said that when things change, perhaps 6 months to a year from now, I will be buying the iPhone.
But, what we are talking about is right now, not some mythical time in the future.
Right now, the iPhone is severely limited to those of us who use actual smartphones.
As a stockholder of Apple, I would like that to change. As a user of Apple products, I would like that to change. But, right now, my Treo is far more versatile than the iPhone, despite its good looks, and wonderful interfacing.
My hope, and it's been expressed on numerous threads, both on AI and elsewhere, is that Apple will do what we want, so that the phone becomes a true platform. If so, Apple can acquire something that it never has been able to over the years, which is, having widespread use of OS X.
My feeling is that if Apple doesn't stop these installers from working, whether or not Apple puts its own SDK out, there will be a large number of programs available. If Apple puts its own imprimatur on the business by releasing its own SDK, then the industry will blossom, and Apple will sell far more phones than otherwise.
If Apple can figure out a way to get less expensive phones out there that still have a large hi rez screen, with a fast cpu, then they could easily become a major manufacturer of cell phone/PDA/computer devices.
If not, then they won't.
It's too soon to tell.
All I'm saying is that there are numerous people who would prefer to wait until the phone gets to the level we want. I think it's wrong to say that the phone is there now, when it clearly isn't. It's a first gen product.
But a lot of people are. The main point is that the option is there and getting easier to use by the day.
It's funny how people will spend time tracking down and learning how to install 3rd party applications which may crash other smartphones, yet they're adverse to doing the same with the iPhone just because it isn't officially sanctioned by Apple yet.
Perhaps one day Apple will release the SDK and make everything legitimate. At which point you restore your phone software and install the same apps again legitimately. What's the big deal?
I can guarantee that the developers who are doing this now will be the same ones providing legitimate apps later if/when Apple opens things up.
"1xRTT almost doubles the capacity of IS-95 by adding 64 more traffic channels to the forward link, orthogonal to (in quadrature with) the original set of 64. Although capable of higher data rates, most deployments are limited to a peak of 144 kbit/s."
"EDGE can carry data speeds up to 236.8 kbit/s for 4 timeslots (theoretical maximum is 473.6 kbit/s for 8 timeslots) in packet mode and will therefore meet the International Telecommunications Union's requirement for a 3G network, and has been accepted by the ITU as part of the IMT-2000 family of 3G standards."
I really don't care about Wikipedia. It's such a bunch of misinformation that one can disregard it most of the time. I can only attest to what I now to be true in practice.
What we DO know is that ATT's EDGE works UP TO 125Kbs. That has been reported upon many times already. They don't use the more complex systems. Many places have reported 64Kbs.
All I'm saying is that there are numerous people who would prefer to wait until the phone gets to the level we want. I think it's wrong to say that the phone is there now, when it clearly isn't. It's a first gen product.
Perfectly reasonable. I agree the iPhone does not offer what all previous smartphone users are used to. I can agree with someone waiting until it does offer what they want.
I imagine Apple will wait for big moments to introduce new functionality. Apple will likely offer new functions around the launch of Leopard and when the phone goes to Europe which will help reenergize sales.
Perhaps one day Apple will release the SDK and make everything legitimate. At which point you restore your phone software and install the same apps again legitimately. What's the big deal?
I don't see any guarantee these hacks are bug or worry free. If something adversely effects the phone who do you contact to help fix it?
I didn't write AT&T's "Fine EDGE" was faster than 3G. I wrote that the speed of EDGE on the iPhone was perfectly adequate for most browsing, that raw download measures are not necessarily accurate measures of browsing speed, and that the iPhone's browsing speed was enhanced by its fast microprocessor. I should know. In recent years I've burned through a Treo 650, 700p, 750 and HTC 8525, all accessorized with essential reserve batteries.
If you are willing to put up with a cell phone that downloads even at gigabit/second speed but comes with a cr@p web browser, cr@p html e-mail and cr@p UI, then fine. Many of us are not.
I didn't say say you said it was faster than 3G. I said that you think its fast enough. I also said that if you find those much slower than my Sprints 3G to be fine, then ok for you, but those of us with those much faster services are not willing to move several steps back as you are willing to do.
I already said that Safari is better than what I have on my Treo 700p, but that the really slow (compared to mine) service is too much to bear.
I know it's been two months. I've said that when things change, perhaps 6 months to a year from now, I will be buying the iPhone.
But, what we are talking about is right now, not some mythical time in the future.
Right now, the iPhone is severely limited to those of us who use actual smartphones.
And you haven't read my posts very clearly either. My original argument was with the fact that people were stating that you can't run 3rd party applications with the iPhone, when you very well can (with not much effort than it takes to figure out how to do it on other phones). Whether the future of this is driven by Apple or others is irrelevant... it's happening right now.
While yes, the Treo has the advantage in having more applications (due to being out on the market much longer), with Mac OS and several system frameworks on the iPhone, it won't take long for many existing Mac applications to be ported to the iPhone. That I can bet on.
So yes, while I agree that the Treo is a better option for people who have some must have 3rd party applications on it, I consider the iPhone to be an overall better device and is much more future-proof than the Treo. And, having no history with either, if I had to choose a phone now that I would keep for the next 3 years or so, I would choose the iPhone.
Which is why I see cellular unlocking companies in most major shopping centers here. I'd think the police would shut them down much sooner than they'd come breaking down my door.
I don't know how they handle those things n Canada, but it's not so simple here.
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There's a GUI program with instructions for installing it now. Those instructions you posted are out of date. Like I said, this is all new, so it's just a matter of time.
Good. I have nothing against this myself. But, it's still not for sale, and we don't know if it ever will be yet (though, it might "leak" out for free).
I don't see any guarantee these hacks are bug or worry free. If something adversely effects the phone who do you contact to help fix it?
The only difference between these apps and commercially released apps is the option to sue if something goes wrong.
I'd argue that the community surrounding these apps and 3rd party iPhone development in general is much more responsive than most commercial software customer support.
I never complained about Treo's lapses. I just think the iPhone is a better device. My main focus isn't necessarily the phone functionality, but also in an easy-to-use music player, camera, photo browser, etc.
Ovrall, the iPhone IS a better device. I'm not saying it isn't. Though Apple has made some controversal choices. The caera is not that great, according to all reports I've seen. Why can't it record video?, etc.
So, it's still behind in some areas, such as GPS, etc.
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I would gladly sign up for a monthly service with reasonable data fees based on how much I use the phone if I could (the key word there is having a choice based on my usage). Unfortunately, no one has such a service here in Canada.
As I've said, that's the fault with the Canadian cell industry and governmental oversight, not the providers here in the US.
If, and when it becomes available there, hopefully, Apple will be able to convince the provider they go with, to lower those costs, as here at least, the iPhone must have a data plan.
Again, remember you are talking from the perspective of someone who has the phone where the phone is not being sold, and has no official plan or provider. Therefore, your problems aren't really relevant to the rest of us.
Where did you buy the phone, and how have you gotten out of ATT's plan, assuming you did?
Everything about the Turbo Sim says that you need the ATT SIM (functioning) to use it.
New GUI Installer (Works with firmware 1.0, 1.0.1 and 1.0.2): Just released, we now have a GUI installer for Mac OS X. Download v2.4 and try it out. Please report any problems.
I really don't care about Wikipedia. It's such a bunch of misinformation that one can disregard it most of the time. I can only attest to what I now to be true in practice.
What we DO know is that ATT's EDGE works UP TO 125Kbs. That has been reported upon many times already. They don't use the more complex systems. Many places have reported 64Kbs.
What YOU don't know is that EDGE speed depends on the number of time slots used by the device as indicated by its service "class" and as supported by the carrier in any given location and at any given time. You're making claims about the technology based on ignorance. I have personally seen raw download speeds of approx. 130 Kbps for the iPhone, while others have reported speeds approaching 200 Kbps. In real world usage, its speed is perfectly adequate most of the time for most web sites, and the fidelity and usability of Mobile Safari is outstanding. I could give a rat's @ss about the higher speed of my HTC 8525, when its web browser is so stunningly awful. (Notice I didn't even mention the lousy battery life, myriad of buttons, mushy keyboard, lousy e-mail clients, etc. etc. etc. for the HTC.)
As I've said, that's the fault with the Canadian cell industry and governmental oversight, not the providers here in the US.
I never had any argument about data plans. I just wanted people to know that, when comparing costs, the iPhone has more options than the AT&T plans. Even without unlocking the SIM, you can still choose other AT&T plans.
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Where did you buy the phone, and how have you gotten out of ATT's plan, assuming you did?
Everything about the Turbo Sim says that you need the ATT SIM (functioning) to use it.
Nope, you just need the SIM which comes with the phone (activated or not). The TurboSIM just copies the SIM identification information (ie. the company identification number). Once done, you can combine it with any other SIM, and the phone thinks that it's using an AT&T SIM.
It simply is true. For example, go to sprint.com and you'll find: 450 minutes @ $39.99/month and unlimited data for $39.99/month. iPhone from AT&T is $59.99/month for 450 roll-over minutes, unlimited data and 200 SMS. Go to AT&T, price any other smart phone, and you'll find a comparable voice + data plan for $79.99/month. All prices are before taxes and fees, which add even more to the iPhone price advantage.
You're wrong and I actually have a Sprint plan with my Treo. When you sign up for a $39.99 plan, unlimited data is added for $15, for a total of $54.99. The $39 data plan is for a separate device like a wireless card. Please stop your misinformation campaign.
Seems like this article is pure iPhone propoganda, but one thing it does do is let it be known clearly that the Palm needs to get its act together. Mac users are growing every day, and to continue to produce smartphones that does not play nicely with Mac is a pretty big mistake.
I have a Treo 650 which I love and rely on heavily b/c it syncs with my Outlook at work and allows me to have my calendar with me at all times. And I happen to love the touch screen and the interface. Its quite simple, especially if you've used Palm/Handspring in the past. But that does not mean that i will stay with Palm forever. If the iPhone reduced a bit in price and had really reliable and easy calendar/contact Outlook syncing with my work PC while still allowing me to sync iTunes with my Powerbook G4, I would enthusiastically put my Treo on eBay.
I think iPhone raised the bar for all smartphones, and I look forward to Palm's first real response to the iPhone.
I have not experienced any problems syncing the iphone with Outlook! So I really don't understand why everyone says it is a problem??
Intel's name has had more to do with Apple's success? I know of very few people who run Windows on their Mac.
What you miss is that Apple supports open standards and does not work to support MS propreitary lock in standards.
The iPhone which I would at least consider along with many others is a smart phone and in general to date has not made a scratch whens to pda and palm use in the corporate world.
Intel has certainly been the spark over the last year for Apple.
How can you say Apple supports an open Standard? You an run Windows OS on any harware you can only run Mac OS if you by a system from Apple. Thats about as closed as you can get.
Id rather have Apple charger double for their OS and allow me to run it on any hardware I choose, not one they feel I should be using or one that Steve Jobs feels meets my needs.
Many that I know run dual boot Windows on their Macs because you need it for business related software even more so in the near future if anyone uses Excel and needs VBA support for macros.
Also unless you are a teacher and are willing to dump a great deal of money for photo editing the only option on a mac that runs univeral binary is CS3, you can get PSP or Adobe Photoshop Elements for 89.00 for the PC which works rather well. Chat clients Yahoo, ICQ, AIM Skype are all far stronger option wise on the PC verions than Mac. For business you simply can not get away with just using Os X becasue it has such a low market share base its not worth it for third party companies to put the effort into writing software.
Another excellent example of this is I really like using Keynote compared to Powerpoint and what I can't believe is that Apple has not yet introduced a Keynote veiwer while Powerpoint has had one forever. To me that is a perfect example of Apple only allowing you to communicate with other apple user and not with the rest of the world. That is unless you export your presentation as a quicktime movie.
In the Windows world you just do what you want too and it works, when you use a Mac the reason you become so creative is your always having to fine a work around to get your work out to share with the other 96% of the world.
Member melgross make the same point regarding the iPhone, while most users are Windows users man iPhone related options only work well if you own a Mac.
For some odd reason Steve Jobs still fails to understand when it comes to the computing world he has never owned more than 6-7% of that population and in the past that has been as little as 2-3%.
While the Apple koolaid drinkers think he is the best thing since slice bread I honestly wish he would step aside and allow someone more open minded to take over.
While I sound anit Apple I would actually love for them to get about 50% market share when ti comes to their OS so we can actually get creative and for once revolutionary apps that actually work cross platform.
True competition is really the only way for the end user to win in all this.
And you haven't read my posts very clearly either. My original argument was with the fact that people were stating that you can't run 3rd party applications with the iPhone, when you very well can (with not much effort than it takes to figure out how to do it on other phones). Whether the future of this is driven by Apple or others is irrelevant... it's happening right now.
While yes, the Treo has the advantage in having more applications (due to being out on the market much longer), with Mac OS and several system frameworks on the iPhone, it won't take long for many existing Mac applications to be ported to the iPhone. That I can bet on.
So yes, while I agree that the Treo is a better option for people who have some must have 3rd party applications on it, I consider the iPhone to be an overall better device and is much more future-proof than the Treo. And, having no history with either, if I had to choose a phone now that I would keep for the next 3 years or so, I would choose the iPhone.
Well, at least you've admitted that you haven't read my posts carefully.
But, I have read yours carefully.
I'm not denying that you can install third party programs. But, it's not as easy as you say it is.
Easy would be downloading a program you bought, or shareware, or freeware, and just installing it through itunes, or just by double clicking on the install icon for the program. Or perhaps just dragging it to the iphone's icon on the monitor screen.
That would be easy. Right now, it's not easy. You do what some others do, you assume that because it's easy for us, it's easy for everyone else. Not so!
Finding, and downloading, a third party installer, which requires several steps for its own install, and then installing through that, even though that is easy, is not easy for most people. Most people will shy away from that.
What is needed is a way to install programs without a third party installer. There is no way to do that now.
I've been speaking to some friends who do this type of programming. I've been trying to convince them to come up with a program such as VISE that they can sell to the program companies that can be a built-in installer for those programs. That would solve the problem.
They are interested, but aren't so sure that Apple won't do something to prevent it. If they feel more secure about that, they will look into it. Otherwise, it's a lot of work for nothing.
I doubt that we'll see too many Mac programs being ported over.
There are several reasons for that. One, is the reason Jobs, and some programmers gave. The interface is entirely different. Mac programs require the Mac Finder. There is nothing even close on the iPhone. That would have to be completely rewritten from scratch. Second is that the Mac these days uses vastly more powerful cpus than the iPhone has. As even WiFi speeds are considered to be severely limited by the cpu's speed on the iPhone, many programs would be totally brought to their knees. There is also not enough memory for many of these programs, particularly if the phone will be used for music and video.
There is also no real fast GPu aboard. It's good for what it;s being used for.
Overall, what I've read is that some programs might be broken up, and parts released for the phone, assuming that an adequate SDK is available. It's doubtful that mainline developers would use the tools now available.
New GUI Installer (Works with firmware 1.0, 1.0.1 and 1.0.2): Just released, we now have a GUI installer for Mac OS X. Download v2.4 and try it out. Please report any problems.
I already pointed to that. It's a bit more complex than a simple GUI though. And installation is not just a couple of steps either as per the instructions I linked to shows.
What YOU don't know is that EDGE speed depends on the number of time slots used by the device as indicated by its service "class" and as supported by the carrier in any given location and at any given time. You're making claims about the technology based on ignorance. I have personally seen raw download speeds of approx. 130 Kbps for the iPhone, while others have reported speeds approaching 200 Kbps. In real world usage, its speed is perfectly adequate most of the time for most web sites, and the fidelity and usability of Mobile Safari is outstanding. I could give a rat's @ss about the higher speed of my HTC 8525, when its web browser is so stunningly awful. (Notice I didn't even mention the lousy battery life, myriad of buttons, mushy keyboard, lousy e-mail clients, etc. etc. etc. for the HTC.)
foo, give up.
I know at least as much as you do. I also know that the "reported" speeds of over 125Kbs, or so, are doubted according to what is known about ATT's service. They just upgraded from 64 Kbs to 125 before the iPhone came out. There is no way that 200Kbs speeds can be maintained through them.
I keep on saying that Safari is fine. That's enough about it already. This is getting boring.
Comments
It is here in Canada (given no unlimited data plan exists). And, like I said, I typically don't use those pay hotspots.
Right now the US is the only place that matters, as we are the only ones where the iPhone can be properly bought and used. Perhaps when it is available there, things will change. But, that's not the fault of the Treo or any other phones or services offered here, which is where it matters right now.
One month after people figured out how to build and install apps on the iPhone and you're trying to hold that over my head. Gimme a break... ask me again in a few months. Even if Apple had released an SDK you wouldn't have all your apps available yet and you'd still be complaining.
Don't you guys pay attention to what's written?
I know it's been two months. I've said that when things change, perhaps 6 months to a year from now, I will be buying the iPhone.
But, what we are talking about is right now, not some mythical time in the future.
Right now, the iPhone is severely limited to those of us who use actual smartphones.
As a stockholder of Apple, I would like that to change. As a user of Apple products, I would like that to change. But, right now, my Treo is far more versatile than the iPhone, despite its good looks, and wonderful interfacing.
My hope, and it's been expressed on numerous threads, both on AI and elsewhere, is that Apple will do what we want, so that the phone becomes a true platform. If so, Apple can acquire something that it never has been able to over the years, which is, having widespread use of OS X.
My feeling is that if Apple doesn't stop these installers from working, whether or not Apple puts its own SDK out, there will be a large number of programs available. If Apple puts its own imprimatur on the business by releasing its own SDK, then the industry will blossom, and Apple will sell far more phones than otherwise.
If Apple can figure out a way to get less expensive phones out there that still have a large hi rez screen, with a fast cpu, then they could easily become a major manufacturer of cell phone/PDA/computer devices.
If not, then they won't.
It's too soon to tell.
All I'm saying is that there are numerous people who would prefer to wait until the phone gets to the level we want. I think it's wrong to say that the phone is there now, when it clearly isn't. It's a first gen product.
I for one am not touching any of that stuff.
But a lot of people are. The main point is that the option is there and getting easier to use by the day.
It's funny how people will spend time tracking down and learning how to install 3rd party applications which may crash other smartphones, yet they're adverse to doing the same with the iPhone just because it isn't officially sanctioned by Apple yet.
Perhaps one day Apple will release the SDK and make everything legitimate. At which point you restore your phone software and install the same apps again legitimately. What's the big deal?
I can guarantee that the developers who are doing this now will be the same ones providing legitimate apps later if/when Apple opens things up.
Try the Wikipedia:
"1xRTT almost doubles the capacity of IS-95 by adding 64 more traffic channels to the forward link, orthogonal to (in quadrature with) the original set of 64. Although capable of higher data rates, most deployments are limited to a peak of 144 kbit/s."
"EDGE can carry data speeds up to 236.8 kbit/s for 4 timeslots (theoretical maximum is 473.6 kbit/s for 8 timeslots) in packet mode and will therefore meet the International Telecommunications Union's requirement for a 3G network, and has been accepted by the ITU as part of the IMT-2000 family of 3G standards."
I really don't care about Wikipedia. It's such a bunch of misinformation that one can disregard it most of the time. I can only attest to what I now to be true in practice.
What we DO know is that ATT's EDGE works UP TO 125Kbs. That has been reported upon many times already. They don't use the more complex systems. Many places have reported 64Kbs.
All I'm saying is that there are numerous people who would prefer to wait until the phone gets to the level we want. I think it's wrong to say that the phone is there now, when it clearly isn't. It's a first gen product.
Perfectly reasonable. I agree the iPhone does not offer what all previous smartphone users are used to. I can agree with someone waiting until it does offer what they want.
I imagine Apple will wait for big moments to introduce new functionality. Apple will likely offer new functions around the launch of Leopard and when the phone goes to Europe which will help reenergize sales.
Perhaps one day Apple will release the SDK and make everything legitimate. At which point you restore your phone software and install the same apps again legitimately. What's the big deal?
I don't see any guarantee these hacks are bug or worry free. If something adversely effects the phone who do you contact to help fix it?
I just don't even want to deal with it.
I didn't write AT&T's "Fine EDGE" was faster than 3G. I wrote that the speed of EDGE on the iPhone was perfectly adequate for most browsing, that raw download measures are not necessarily accurate measures of browsing speed, and that the iPhone's browsing speed was enhanced by its fast microprocessor. I should know. In recent years I've burned through a Treo 650, 700p, 750 and HTC 8525, all accessorized with essential reserve batteries.
If you are willing to put up with a cell phone that downloads even at gigabit/second speed but comes with a cr@p web browser, cr@p html e-mail and cr@p UI, then fine. Many of us are not.
I didn't say say you said it was faster than 3G. I said that you think its fast enough. I also said that if you find those much slower than my Sprints 3G to be fine, then ok for you, but those of us with those much faster services are not willing to move several steps back as you are willing to do.
I already said that Safari is better than what I have on my Treo 700p, but that the really slow (compared to mine) service is too much to bear.
Don't you guys pay attention to what's written?
I know it's been two months. I've said that when things change, perhaps 6 months to a year from now, I will be buying the iPhone.
But, what we are talking about is right now, not some mythical time in the future.
Right now, the iPhone is severely limited to those of us who use actual smartphones.
And you haven't read my posts very clearly either. My original argument was with the fact that people were stating that you can't run 3rd party applications with the iPhone, when you very well can (with not much effort than it takes to figure out how to do it on other phones). Whether the future of this is driven by Apple or others is irrelevant... it's happening right now.
While yes, the Treo has the advantage in having more applications (due to being out on the market much longer), with Mac OS and several system frameworks on the iPhone, it won't take long for many existing Mac applications to be ported to the iPhone. That I can bet on.
So yes, while I agree that the Treo is a better option for people who have some must have 3rd party applications on it, I consider the iPhone to be an overall better device and is much more future-proof than the Treo. And, having no history with either, if I had to choose a phone now that I would keep for the next 3 years or so, I would choose the iPhone.
Which is why I see cellular unlocking companies in most major shopping centers here. I'd think the police would shut them down much sooner than they'd come breaking down my door.
I don't know how they handle those things n Canada, but it's not so simple here.
There's a GUI program with instructions for installing it now. Those instructions you posted are out of date. Like I said, this is all new, so it's just a matter of time.
Where is that?
Engadget already reported that they'd seen it. So I'm pretty sure it exists.
Good. I have nothing against this myself. But, it's still not for sale, and we don't know if it ever will be yet (though, it might "leak" out for free).
And Pocket IE is unusable for most of the WWW. There is no room for argument.
I don't know about that, but I can get every website I go to with my Treo.
I don't see any guarantee these hacks are bug or worry free. If something adversely effects the phone who do you contact to help fix it?
The only difference between these apps and commercially released apps is the option to sue if something goes wrong.
I'd argue that the community surrounding these apps and 3rd party iPhone development in general is much more responsive than most commercial software customer support.
I never complained about Treo's lapses. I just think the iPhone is a better device. My main focus isn't necessarily the phone functionality, but also in an easy-to-use music player, camera, photo browser, etc.
Ovrall, the iPhone IS a better device. I'm not saying it isn't. Though Apple has made some controversal choices. The caera is not that great, according to all reports I've seen. Why can't it record video?, etc.
So, it's still behind in some areas, such as GPS, etc.
I would gladly sign up for a monthly service with reasonable data fees based on how much I use the phone if I could (the key word there is having a choice based on my usage). Unfortunately, no one has such a service here in Canada.
As I've said, that's the fault with the Canadian cell industry and governmental oversight, not the providers here in the US.
If, and when it becomes available there, hopefully, Apple will be able to convince the provider they go with, to lower those costs, as here at least, the iPhone must have a data plan.
Again, remember you are talking from the perspective of someone who has the phone where the phone is not being sold, and has no official plan or provider. Therefore, your problems aren't really relevant to the rest of us.
Where did you buy the phone, and how have you gotten out of ATT's plan, assuming you did?
Everything about the Turbo Sim says that you need the ATT SIM (functioning) to use it.
Where is that?
From the nullriver webpage:
---
New GUI Installer (Works with firmware 1.0, 1.0.1 and 1.0.2): Just released, we now have a GUI installer for Mac OS X. Download v2.4 and try it out. Please report any problems.
I really don't care about Wikipedia. It's such a bunch of misinformation that one can disregard it most of the time. I can only attest to what I now to be true in practice.
What we DO know is that ATT's EDGE works UP TO 125Kbs. That has been reported upon many times already. They don't use the more complex systems. Many places have reported 64Kbs.
What YOU don't know is that EDGE speed depends on the number of time slots used by the device as indicated by its service "class" and as supported by the carrier in any given location and at any given time. You're making claims about the technology based on ignorance.
As I've said, that's the fault with the Canadian cell industry and governmental oversight, not the providers here in the US.
I never had any argument about data plans. I just wanted people to know that, when comparing costs, the iPhone has more options than the AT&T plans. Even without unlocking the SIM, you can still choose other AT&T plans.
Where did you buy the phone, and how have you gotten out of ATT's plan, assuming you did?
ebay and iActivator
Everything about the Turbo Sim says that you need the ATT SIM (functioning) to use it.
Nope, you just need the SIM which comes with the phone (activated or not). The TurboSIM just copies the SIM identification information (ie. the company identification number). Once done, you can combine it with any other SIM, and the phone thinks that it's using an AT&T SIM.
It simply is true. For example, go to sprint.com and you'll find: 450 minutes @ $39.99/month and unlimited data for $39.99/month. iPhone from AT&T is $59.99/month for 450 roll-over minutes, unlimited data and 200 SMS. Go to AT&T, price any other smart phone, and you'll find a comparable voice + data plan for $79.99/month. All prices are before taxes and fees, which add even more to the iPhone price advantage.
You're wrong and I actually have a Sprint plan with my Treo. When you sign up for a $39.99 plan, unlimited data is added for $15, for a total of $54.99. The $39 data plan is for a separate device like a wireless card. Please stop your misinformation campaign.
Seems like this article is pure iPhone propoganda, but one thing it does do is let it be known clearly that the Palm needs to get its act together. Mac users are growing every day, and to continue to produce smartphones that does not play nicely with Mac is a pretty big mistake.
I have a Treo 650 which I love and rely on heavily b/c it syncs with my Outlook at work and allows me to have my calendar with me at all times. And I happen to love the touch screen and the interface. Its quite simple, especially if you've used Palm/Handspring in the past. But that does not mean that i will stay with Palm forever. If the iPhone reduced a bit in price and had really reliable and easy calendar/contact Outlook syncing with my work PC while still allowing me to sync iTunes with my Powerbook G4, I would enthusiastically put my Treo on eBay.
I think iPhone raised the bar for all smartphones, and I look forward to Palm's first real response to the iPhone.
That's not necessarily true.
Intel's name has had more to do with Apple's success? I know of very few people who run Windows on their Mac.
What you miss is that Apple supports open standards and does not work to support MS propreitary lock in standards.
The iPhone which I would at least consider along with many others is a smart phone and in general to date has not made a scratch whens to pda and palm use in the corporate world.
Intel has certainly been the spark over the last year for Apple.
How can you say Apple supports an open Standard? You an run Windows OS on any harware you can only run Mac OS if you by a system from Apple. Thats about as closed as you can get.
Id rather have Apple charger double for their OS and allow me to run it on any hardware I choose, not one they feel I should be using or one that Steve Jobs feels meets my needs.
Many that I know run dual boot Windows on their Macs because you need it for business related software even more so in the near future if anyone uses Excel and needs VBA support for macros.
Also unless you are a teacher and are willing to dump a great deal of money for photo editing the only option on a mac that runs univeral binary is CS3, you can get PSP or Adobe Photoshop Elements for 89.00 for the PC which works rather well. Chat clients Yahoo, ICQ, AIM Skype are all far stronger option wise on the PC verions than Mac. For business you simply can not get away with just using Os X becasue it has such a low market share base its not worth it for third party companies to put the effort into writing software.
Another excellent example of this is I really like using Keynote compared to Powerpoint and what I can't believe is that Apple has not yet introduced a Keynote veiwer while Powerpoint has had one forever. To me that is a perfect example of Apple only allowing you to communicate with other apple user and not with the rest of the world. That is unless you export your presentation as a quicktime movie.
In the Windows world you just do what you want too and it works, when you use a Mac the reason you become so creative is your always having to fine a work around to get your work out to share with the other 96% of the world.
Member melgross make the same point regarding the iPhone, while most users are Windows users man iPhone related options only work well if you own a Mac.
For some odd reason Steve Jobs still fails to understand when it comes to the computing world he has never owned more than 6-7% of that population and in the past that has been as little as 2-3%.
While the Apple koolaid drinkers think he is the best thing since slice bread I honestly wish he would step aside and allow someone more open minded to take over.
While I sound anit Apple I would actually love for them to get about 50% market share when ti comes to their OS so we can actually get creative and for once revolutionary apps that actually work cross platform.
True competition is really the only way for the end user to win in all this.
And you haven't read my posts very clearly either. My original argument was with the fact that people were stating that you can't run 3rd party applications with the iPhone, when you very well can (with not much effort than it takes to figure out how to do it on other phones). Whether the future of this is driven by Apple or others is irrelevant... it's happening right now.
While yes, the Treo has the advantage in having more applications (due to being out on the market much longer), with Mac OS and several system frameworks on the iPhone, it won't take long for many existing Mac applications to be ported to the iPhone. That I can bet on.
So yes, while I agree that the Treo is a better option for people who have some must have 3rd party applications on it, I consider the iPhone to be an overall better device and is much more future-proof than the Treo. And, having no history with either, if I had to choose a phone now that I would keep for the next 3 years or so, I would choose the iPhone.
Well, at least you've admitted that you haven't read my posts carefully.
But, I have read yours carefully.
I'm not denying that you can install third party programs. But, it's not as easy as you say it is.
Easy would be downloading a program you bought, or shareware, or freeware, and just installing it through itunes, or just by double clicking on the install icon for the program. Or perhaps just dragging it to the iphone's icon on the monitor screen.
That would be easy. Right now, it's not easy. You do what some others do, you assume that because it's easy for us, it's easy for everyone else. Not so!
Finding, and downloading, a third party installer, which requires several steps for its own install, and then installing through that, even though that is easy, is not easy for most people. Most people will shy away from that.
What is needed is a way to install programs without a third party installer. There is no way to do that now.
I've been speaking to some friends who do this type of programming. I've been trying to convince them to come up with a program such as VISE that they can sell to the program companies that can be a built-in installer for those programs. That would solve the problem.
They are interested, but aren't so sure that Apple won't do something to prevent it. If they feel more secure about that, they will look into it. Otherwise, it's a lot of work for nothing.
I doubt that we'll see too many Mac programs being ported over.
There are several reasons for that. One, is the reason Jobs, and some programmers gave. The interface is entirely different. Mac programs require the Mac Finder. There is nothing even close on the iPhone. That would have to be completely rewritten from scratch. Second is that the Mac these days uses vastly more powerful cpus than the iPhone has. As even WiFi speeds are considered to be severely limited by the cpu's speed on the iPhone, many programs would be totally brought to their knees. There is also not enough memory for many of these programs, particularly if the phone will be used for music and video.
There is also no real fast GPu aboard. It's good for what it;s being used for.
Overall, what I've read is that some programs might be broken up, and parts released for the phone, assuming that an adequate SDK is available. It's doubtful that mainline developers would use the tools now available.
From the nullriver webpage:
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New GUI Installer (Works with firmware 1.0, 1.0.1 and 1.0.2): Just released, we now have a GUI installer for Mac OS X. Download v2.4 and try it out. Please report any problems.
I already pointed to that. It's a bit more complex than a simple GUI though. And installation is not just a couple of steps either as per the instructions I linked to shows.
What YOU don't know is that EDGE speed depends on the number of time slots used by the device as indicated by its service "class" and as supported by the carrier in any given location and at any given time. You're making claims about the technology based on ignorance.
foo, give up.
I know at least as much as you do. I also know that the "reported" speeds of over 125Kbs, or so, are doubted according to what is known about ATT's service. They just upgraded from 64 Kbs to 125 before the iPhone came out. There is no way that 200Kbs speeds can be maintained through them.
I keep on saying that Safari is fine. That's enough about it already. This is getting boring.