Issues with iTunes 7.6 and Apples response

Posted:
in iPod + iTunes + AppleTV edited January 2014
Hi All,



I think many of you may have experienced problems with the latest forced upgrade of iTunes to 7.6. The Apple support forums are filled with issues. I have had a very unfruitful exchange with Apple support on my issue with it, and have sent the letter below.



Posting it here as an Open letter to try and raise awareness of the issue. Instead of owning the problem, Apple support for me, and dozens of others has basically said they have no knowledge of the problem. There are literally 1000's of posts on the issues on Apple's own Forums.



I actually posted the letter below in the Apple User Forums, and encouraged users to write a similar one to iTunes Store to try and get some action on the issue - and within minutes, Apple had deleted the post. Interesting.



Please do write Apple - and ask them why they can't simple say, yes we made a mistake and we're working to fix it?

-----------------------------



Dear iTunes Store,



So heres the problem. I think you obviously haven't really read my issue - the first email from iTunes store was a complete waste of my time, asking questions that had already been answered in my original query, and this second message below is a complete waste of time with generic copy and paste FAQ's with no thought or honesty about the actual problem or any real solution.



Issue: Apple iTunes STORE (you) have decided to add in downloadable movies. YOU (iTunes STORE) require (FORCE) everyone to upgrade from 7.5 to the latest iTunes SOFTWARE 7.6. Now Apple, the company that produces the iTunes SOFTWARE has released a version 7.6 that is an absolute disaster - it is causing a whole host of problems, on Mac Tiger, Leopard, on iMac's, Mac Mini's, Windows (Vista and XP), and pretty much everything in between. 7.6 is deleting entire libraries, wiping out iPods, hanging computers, but in almost all cases it's causing major issues with accessing iTunes STORE.



Now I know that you guys all operate independently - in your email below you say you can't help me with technical support and I'll likely have to PAY for support from Apple to fix the problem.



Well here's another suggestion. You lose me as a customer. Sure you can toss me to Technical support, like they are a separate company, but I'm going to withdraw my support from you. Yah, yah, I'm only one guy, but I'm a guy who has spent over $1000 in just the past few months with you. You lose 100 guys like me, and you've lost $100,000 in revenue. You lose 10,000 guys like me, and you've lost $10 Million in revenue.



Now the thing that gets me, is you all act dumb, like I'm the only one with this problem, like you've had no complaints or queries on this. This is either your support team being WILLFULLY IGNORANT, disingenuous, or just outright LIARS.



A quick google search on "itunes upgrade 7.6" leads us to APPLES own SUPPORT FORUM, where literally thousands of users have posted detailed descriptions of the multitude of problems with this upgrade. http://discussions.apple.com/forum.j...ID=783&start=0. Tens of thousand of users have viewed these (such as myself). Tens of thousands of users have posted on other Macintosh sites or Music sites, and several are talking about Class Action Suits (who knows if they are serious).



What's interesting to me is that several people have contacted Apple - Technical Support, iTunes Support, Apple Genius Bars, etc. In all the cases I read about (and in this series of emails with you), everyone is getting the same message - "oh gee, you're having problems? I've not heard about anyone else with a problem, golly gee whiz" - it's utter crap. Your own support pages have 1000's of disenfranchised users, frustrated as all heck.



The appropriate message Apple, that you should be saying is - "So sorry - we messed up - big time. We apologize, and we are working around the clock to fix it. Don't worry - it will be resolved soon, and we'll try and make it up to you."



Instead you tell me that I'm the only one having a problem.



So here is my solution. I will cancel my iTunes subscription just as soon as I can. For a start :



PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME FROM COLBERT REPORT AND THE DAILY SHOW WITH JOHN STEWART AUTOMATIC RENEWALS.



Further more: PLEASE PROVIDE ME DETAILS OF HOW I CAN REFUND THE BALANCE I HAVE WITH THE STORE, SO THAT I DON"T HAVE TO DEAL WITH PEOPLE LIKE YOU AGAIN.



As a note, I will be posting this as an open letter, both on Apples Forum, as well as on several other websites for Apple Users.



Sorry guys, you've lost a customer. Like I say, losing 10,000 customers like me will cost you over a $10 Million in revenue. You may want to reconsider your approach to dealing with issues like this.



Alternatively - contact me with someone who is a senior manager there, and offer me a REAL SOLUTION to the problem.



Regards,



Rob
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 27
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    I love reading these letters from people. They always seem like they're written by a 12-year-old arguing with his mom. The use of all-caps, the attitude that it's the end of the world that they have a problem, the impoliteness that will so obviously get less attention than a polite email. I love it! Keep 'em coming!



    Here's a hint - if you want to be helpful to other people reading your letter, you might want to actually describe the problem you're having. All I see is juvenile ranting with no description whatsoever of your actual problem.
  • Reply 2 of 27
    Hi BRussell,



    Appreciate the feedback (honestly). I don't think I come across as a 12 year old arguing with my mom, but if that is the perception, then there is a problem with my style - I will take it on board.



    I also agree with you that ranting without asking for help is not so useful - but as I mention in the pre-amble this was a letter sent to support after several emails back and forth, trying to honestly solve the problem - at first I didn't know anyone else had an issue. But the Apple iTunes support people were completely unhelpful, and there latest suggestion was that I would need to call, and pay Apple support to resolve the issue.



    I also have to disagree with you that I think I'm the only one with the problem - the whole point of me posting here is I think it's a widespread problem with 1000's of users experiencing issues, and Apple is in no way owning the problem. Specifically:
    • Apple releases 7.6. Users are forced to download this upgrade if they want to use the iTunes store (which is where I started)

    • The upgrade to 7.6 is full of bugs - check out the Apple Forums and you'll see 100's of postings on the issue, with 1000's of views

    • Users are having their iPod's wiped out, their libraries wiped out, their systems crashing, or like me just unable to access the store (I have 23 season pass items waiting download, so I'm eager to access, but I admit, my issue is probably the smallest of worries)

    • Several posts on the apple forum talk of users who have called apple support, genius bars, or online. in all the cases I read about, and in my personal experience with support Apple staff claimed that they were not aware of anyone else having an issue - when there are 100's or 1000's of users posting about it on Apples own forum.

    • No one at apple, as far as I have seen, has come out and said "We recognize there is a problem and we are working to resolve it" - they want to bury their head and claim that they haven't heard there is any problem.

    • They have even gone so far as to delete my post on Apple forum where I echoed the problem many others are having (kind of a "me too" letter), and in which I suggested users should contact iTunes Store and warn them that they will withdraw their business.

    I think it's fascinating that Apple would delete a comment like that. There was no cursing, and it was a legitimate issue and discussion area - the only difference in my post and those of many others was I was urging users to take economic action.



    Who knows if anyone will. I will not be using iTunes in the future. I love it, and love my many Mac's, but there are other options out there for legitimate digital content, and when I am unable to get things I've bought, told I have to pay more to try and get things I bought, and then censored - well, that's not a business I want to give money to.



    If the wider audience of affected users does want to resolve the issue, and Apple is trying so hard to bury/ignore it, then an economic impact message may be the only way to get them to go. Like I said in my original post - I've spent well over $1000 in the past few months on iTunes. I'll take that money elsewhere for the future. This is no big deal for Apple. But if there are 10,000 users out there that spend a similar amount and decide to do the same - that's $10 Million in revenue that Apple is losing. I would think that would get them to stand up and take notice.



    Regards,



    Rob
  • Reply 3 of 27
    When you have 1,000,000 customers, if 1000 of them are having a problem, it's almost certain that the problem is caused by the user or an improperly configured or maintained operating system (obviously more likely if you're on Windows).



    I personally haven't seen any issues with iTunes 7.6 (although there are issues with QuickTime 7.4). But I use a Mac. Maybe the Windows experience is different.



    But nowhere in your post do I see any indication of your problem except that you cannot access the iTunes Store, and there is no detail on your situation.



    One thing you need to be aware of is that if you're having problem "A" (not being able to access the store) there is no use in complaining that people are having problem "B" (wiped out iPod or iTunes Library). The fact is, you are not having problem "B", so it's not your concern and makes it look like you're searching for something to validate your complaint with, didn't find it, so substituted something else that doesn't affect you personally.



    If thousands of people are having issues with not being able to access the iTunes Store, and you limited your complaint to a polite description of the problem you're having, I bet you'd get a response.



    Oh, and the solution to your problem is most likely to reinstall Windows.
  • Reply 4 of 27
    Thanks Tonton,



    I'm actually running on a Mac (Mac Mini, intel dual core, latest leopard). I don't use Window's anymore at all. Reason I didn't repeat my problem here is that I had communicated detailed descriptions to Apple and gotten no good answer, and then when I tried to review the problem myself found that it was a widespread one. Wasn't really posting the above to solicit solutions - I have a few things to try that I will follow up with. My bigger concern is that a) it's a relatively widespread problem (on Macs and Windows apparently) b) several different people have reported, and I have experienced, Apple support staff claiming that they're not aware of anyone else with the problem, and c) Apple deleting my forum posts that suggests users should write to iTunes and threaten to remove their business.



    I think it's a fairly serious, fairly real problem. It's not that there are 1000 problems out of 1 million users - if there are 1000 people taking the time to write in detailed descriptions of their problems on the Apple forum, I'd wager there are 100,000 who are having problems but not writing in - asking their friends, trying to solve it themselves, or just cursing computers.



    I'd hope Apple would simple acknowledge there is a serious problem, and tell us they are working on a solution - instead of Apple staff denying any knowledge of problems.



    My hopes in the post here are that anyone else who has had similar issues with 7.6 - to write in to Apple and make sure we get heard.



    Cheers,



    Rob
  • Reply 5 of 27
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    Did I miss it, or did he still not indicate what his problem actually is?
  • Reply 6 of 27
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BRussell View Post


    Did I miss it, or did he still not indicate what his problem actually is?



    Thus far there is no specified problem. Just generalizations...
  • Reply 7 of 27
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stanleyrob View Post


    Users are having their iPod's wiped out, their libraries wiped out, their systems crashing, or like me just unable to access the store (I have 23 season pass items waiting download, so I'm eager to access, but I admit, my issue is probably the smallest of worries)



    Well, he did technically have a problem listed. However, these problems do seem rather vague.



    Stanleyrob, perhaps you would be more successful if you posted what steps are needed to trigger the problem, and then explain in detail what the problem really is. Nobody has the same computer configuration as you, so without any concrete information, it's going to be difficult to help out.
  • Reply 8 of 27
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Phlake View Post


    Well, he did technically have a problem listed. However, these problems do seem rather vague.



    Stanleyrob, perhaps you would be more successful if you posted what steps are needed to trigger the problem, and then explain in detail what the problem really is. Nobody has the same computer configuration as you, so without any concrete information, it's going to be difficult to help out.



    Geez... it's like asking for directions from one of those people who just don't get the concept. Forget it... the guy is hopeless. It's no wonder Apple ignored him. I'd love to see his very first complaint letter.
  • Reply 9 of 27
    And does he/she/it really think that I'm gonna read this thread and think: "He's right!... I'm just gonna quit using iTunes, the iTunes Store, and throw out all my Macs, iPods, and iPhone!"



    The support forums are for voicing problems... if you read through them, you'd think every Mac sold has a problem... Same for Windows (haha) if you read Microsoft support forums... Just because you can find a similar problem reported several times on a forum doesn't mean it is "widespread".

    I'm not saying Apple doesn't have it's share of problems... but MY experience has been that they handle them quite well (they replaced my aging G5 iMac with a brand new C2D iMac when I was having hardware issues

    And the fact that I use iTunes a LOT, on several computers, and with several iPods and have no problems whatsoever, might lead me to think that the problem isn't really with the software.

    It COULD be a legitimate beef, but perhaps somebody just needed a place to vent or troll (all 3 of his posts are in this thread)
  • Reply 10 of 27
    Maybe I was just venting. As I said many times - I didn't write on this forum to solicit an answer to my technical problem. I wrote because I think there is a widespread problem, Apple is not taking any ownership or offering any solutions. My intent was for others that might be having the same problem might also write to Apple, and let them know this is unacceptable.



    I appreciate you all wanting to help out my technical issue, but that wasn't the point - I'll solve it on my own, or live with the problem. If you don't have any problems with iTunes 7.6, and if you don't have any experience with inadequate support from Apple, then this discussion is not relevant to you.



    If you do, then write Apple. Many of you have pointed out my letter posted above was nasty - fine, point taken. There was many emails prior to that that did try to solve the issue - but support from Apple was non-existant for this issue. That was my final letter to them with the boiled down message that I was withdrawing my business from them. My $1000 in purchases means nothing to Apple, but if this is a widespread problem, and if others write in, maybe Apple will take action.



    Again - if you have no problems with this upgrade, and you have no complaints with Apple, then there's really nothing for you to contribute to this conversation. If you disagree that it's a widespread problem, then do a google search or check the forum links I provided above before you presume I'm some lone troublemaker.



    The irony here is that I do love Apple products, and give Apple, iTunes and all they do a lot of leeway. If they simply said at the outset that "yes we understand there is a problem many people are having with this and we're working on a solution" I would have just waited patiently.
  • Reply 11 of 27
    areseearesee Posts: 776member
    stanleyrob,

    If you just wanted to vent you posted this to the wrong forum. Most of us here like our Macs, take pride in them and want to help others to enjoy and get the most out of their Macs. So of course when someone shows up with a problem we want to reach out a help that individual solve their problem. You'd be surprised on how many of the most vexing problems are due to incorrect settings, incompatible software (both commercial and hacks) or user ignorance. Plus we are all well aware that every now and again Apple screws up and puts out bad software. (Though like others here I do not have any problems with iTunes 7.6 and thus unable to guess on what your problem may be.) If you could give us some more information on YOUR problem we might be able to help you or at least console you that you do have a real problem and gripe.



    Also don't think that because you saw it in the Apple discussion groups, MacFixIt forums or even in these forum means that the problem is widespread or even real. These are self selecting forums where you will only hear about the problems not the successes. Besides experience says that the more vitriol the complaint the less serious the problem. From your original post it sounds like you stubbed your toe while listening to iTunes, so if you want to be taken serious what is YOUR problem. That is your problem not a problem that someone else reported in the Apple forums. We have no facts on these and can neither help or evaluate their problems.



    By the way, the current Apple forum is a pile of crap. It used to be alot better but a while back Apple canned a bunch of moderators and the discussion groups went straight down the toilet. You very seldom find a direct solution in these forums anymore. Most of the solutions I find their are from when I look at other sort-of related problems and get an idea that might apply to my problem. Sometimes my problems get solved.



    I have my own criticism with your letter to Apple, there was no history there. Did you really think that all your emails went to the same person? And if the extremely unlike chance that two or more of the emails did get to the same individual that that individual tied them together as being from the same person? No, that's a bad assumption. Always assume that you need to re-educate the person you are writing to. Especially when you are writing (or calling) a large corporation employing thousands of individuals. Your email went straight into the bit bucket because the poor sole that it got routed to didn't know what the hell you were talking about and had hundreds of other emails that he could solve.
  • Reply 12 of 27
    Microsoft does not treat it's loyal customers this way! Give up on this candy colored pansy computer and join the rest of the world in the glory of Vista people!
  • Reply 13 of 27
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stanleyrob View Post


    I wrote because I think there is a widespread problem, Apple is not taking any ownership or offering any solutions. My intent was for others that might be having the same problem might also write to Apple, and let them know this is unacceptable.



    First, you haven't shown that the problem you're having is "widespread". Second, you haven't given enough detail for others who might have a similar problem to agree with you, or for those with different problems to sympathize with you.



    The fact is, that in business communications, you need to make a description of your problem, and the specifics of any corroboration in each and every communication. There's nothing wrong with repeating yourself.
  • Reply 14 of 27
    yamayama Posts: 427member
    I've worked in tech support for a bunch of different companies for the last couple of years now, ranging from Adobe to IBM. Once in a while we get this type of complaint. Someone who has a problem, but doesn't want it solved. They just want to complain. Anything we try to do to help them is ignored and they just keep repeating the same thing over and over again. For whatever reason, company X has betrayed them in some manner, because as a customer they are a valuable commodity that needs to be treated with respect and kept happy at all costs. Tech support feels like therapy sometimes.



    If you want a place to complain and have others complain with you, this isn't necessarily the best place. I can understand - venting and complaining with fellow customers who agree with you makes you feel better about the situation. It can validate that the problem is with Apple, not with you, because other people also have the same problem. Complaining about things is enjoyable - I do it all the time However, ultimately, it does not solve your problem.



    Now, you could either wait for Apple to acknowledge that there are major problems with iTunes 7.6, issue an apology to users and release an update which fixes all the problems. Or you could try to get more help. Troubleshooting problems can be a very frustrating process, but you need to stick with it to get the problem fixed. Don't give up just because you don't feel like following an FAQ for iTunes, or because you have to pay to get phone support. As you can see, this forum is full of people who want to help you - for free! Take advantage of this



    The only thread I saw on Apple's forum to do with iTunes 7.6 problems had 144 replies. 144 replies out of the 22 million-odd users who download iTunes is roughly 0.000006%. I doubt that Apple will consider the problem widespread as a result. Sure, there are probably people who are having problems who are not posting on Apple's support forums, and I see that you are trying to draw attention to this problem by going to other forums and urging them to bring up their own complaints if they have any. Again, I doubt that this will change anything.



    Looking at the thread I see a bunch of different problems being reported. The most common is iTunes freezing on launch. I would expect that most of these problems could be resolved by some basic troubleshooting, because the symptoms are inconsistent and too generalised. If users were getting specific error messages, and the symptoms were the same for each one of the 144 replies in that thread, then that would sound like a bug to me.



    There are always people who have problems whenever Apple releases iTunes updates. The majority of the time, the problems are caused by corrupted preferences, 3rd party plug-ins, unusual user configurations, etc. Again, I would urge you to try further troubleshooting rather than continue to complain on random internet forums.
  • Reply 15 of 27
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    The reason people want to know the problem isn't just to solve it, it's to evaluate the legitimacy of your complaint.
  • Reply 16 of 27
    yamayama Posts: 427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BRussell View Post


    The reason people want to know the problem isn't just to solve it, it's to evaluate the legitimacy of your complaint.



    Absolutely, yes. Especially as the description of the problem was so vague and the whole first post came off as a hysterical rant.



    It's just the optimist in me who would like to think that people wanting to know the problem are doing so out of the kindness of their own hearts. But seriously, I'm amazed (and pleased) at the amount of help people give on this forum. Some posters in particular (Marvin comes to mind) go out of their way to answer questions and help others with technical knowledge.
  • Reply 17 of 27
    Ok - point taken. I appreciate the perspective you are all coming from. I do also love my Mac and Apple products, so maybe I hold them to a higher standard. If I had been talking to Micosoft about a similar problem I expect it would have been just as bad if not a whole lot worse.



    My problem seems to have been solved. But for all those curious souls out there - it's a Mac Mini that had the problem (it's my media center). I returned from a trip and had over 20 purchased TV shows on season pass waiting for download, and iTunes warned me an upgrade to 7.6 was required. I used Software update, showed that the upgrade was successfully installed, went back to Itunes and tried to download - told again I needed to upgrade to 7.6. My "About iTunes" showed that I had 7.5 (19) installed. Restarted, went to the Apple site and downloaded the original DMG, installed (which again showed success), but which still didn't resolve the problem. iTunes still showed 7.5, and my downloads didn't work.



    I got vexed because a) Apple forced users to do the upgrade to access content already purchased and b) when there were problems they didn't seem to offer any solutions. Several emails back and forth on the issue, where I had gone into even more detail than above, but no solutions, and the message that they were not aware of any problems. I blew up with the letter above when I did a search, realizing they were going to be totally useless, and found so many other threads of users with issues, some similar (accessing the store), others much more serious (wiped libraries, playlists, iPods, etc), and many others that had also been told by support that they were not aware of any 7.6 issues.



    I understand not all support people will know all the issues, but if it takes me 30 seconds on google to find so many other descriptions of serious, similar issues, why would Apple, in multiple instances claim they were not aware of any issues?



    Final solution - did an arduous DVD full back up of my library (just under 200GB) - I do incremental ones, but I was a bit paranoid here after all this. I removed iTunes fully, did a full re-install, and it went to 7.6. Library seems intact, downloads from the store have started.
  • Reply 18 of 27
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by yama View Post


    Absolutely, yes. Especially as the description of the problem was so vague and the whole first post came off as a hysterical rant.



    It's just the optimist in me who would like to think that people wanting to know the problem are doing so out of the kindness of their own hearts. But seriously, I'm amazed (and pleased) at the amount of help people give on this forum. Some posters in particular (Marvin comes to mind) go out of their way to answer questions and help others with technical knowledge.



    Granted, agreed. Problem solved, and people were trying to help. I'll be more circumspect in the future.
  • Reply 19 of 27
    Glad you solved it... sounds like you simply moved iTunes out of its proper place in the Applications folder (don't do this with any software requiring "auto-update") and it wasn't properly uninstalled by the iTunes 7.6 installer. Meanwhile the link on your dock still pointed to your old copy of 7.5. Most likely it didn't require any "archive and install". You just had to go and delete 7.5 wherever it was and then launch 7.6.
  • Reply 20 of 27
    ekaeka Posts: 1member
    First...I apologize up front for not being familiar with the rules that govern this forum. This is my first posting ever to such.



    I have a relatively (bought in July '07) new iMac 24 @ 2.16 GHz, 2 GB memory, 500GB HD, running Leopard.



    Everything had been behaving well until immediately after the update from 7.5 to 7.6.



    What has occured:



    Initially after the install:

    7.6 then launched and began scanning.

    When it finished. It froze.

    After waiting for an hour, I force quit. I shut down and restarted.

    I relaunched iTunes and noticed that:

    1. Almost all album art was gone (maybe a a few dzn out of 5000 songs had images left)

    2. All my video content was gone. Clicking on an icon resulted in (file is not found).

    3. Many songs result in (file not found) messages.

    4. When I do select a song and play it, I get the rotating kaleidescope for at least a minute or two.

    5. All my playlists were gone

    6. Song information (ratings, genre) were gone

    7. Clicking any function while a song plays (so this occurs after the initial freeze up of lauching a song) in iTunes (like highlighting another song, movies, playlist, get info...etc), results in more of the kaleidescopes.

    8. My kids have since synced their ipods (4GB Nanos) and these were first erased and now they won't work. The won't turn on / stay on reliably. This occured in two ipods, on two seperate machines (my dtr updated her machine which is a Windows XP...but same type of problems).

    9. Video played from my external drive is now choppy (like with the original Leopard release).



    To prove to myself that it's not my imagination. As I wrote this, I launched iTunes and tried to play a song...iTunes is frozen.



    I did write to Apple without any response back.





    Any advice?
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