Gen X/Y is broke: 20- and 30-somethings are in a financial mess
MSN.com
I find it very uncredible to state that someone could get through four years of high school and four years of college and never once be required to take any sort of basic economics course that taught the life skills of balancing a checkbook. Even if it were so, it is still just basic math.
Some of these make sense, like if you are going to go broke from opening a business, you should do it earlier in life versus later. However others just seem to be related to having the latest and greatest gadgets and cars.
There was certainly credit available twenty years ago. I know because back then when I was slurping slime and evolving into a higher life form, I know myself and several others applied for bank and store credit and had no problem getting it. Sure we didn't get iPods, instead we got an external fan cooler for our Mac Plus or perhaps a nice new Imagewriter II, but we still had toys to desire. (I'm getting the Imagewriter II, a color and Print Shop Deluxe!!)
What a strange bit of reasoning... they can't balance a checkbook but are going to short the stock market or perhaps progam the next big website.
So we know parts of this piece are just fluff and like all generations, the last few have had it easier in some ways and harder in others with regard to finances, what do you think the positives and negatives have been for those in their 20-30's with regard current finances?
Quote:
"He wrote me a letter that said, 'You've got to get your life together! Most of these bills aren't even open.' It was a really humbling thing," Wallace says. "But the next time, all my receipts were on a spreadsheet. No one had ever taught me to make a budget or balance a checkbook."
"He wrote me a letter that said, 'You've got to get your life together! Most of these bills aren't even open.' It was a really humbling thing," Wallace says. "But the next time, all my receipts were on a spreadsheet. No one had ever taught me to make a budget or balance a checkbook."
I find it very uncredible to state that someone could get through four years of high school and four years of college and never once be required to take any sort of basic economics course that taught the life skills of balancing a checkbook. Even if it were so, it is still just basic math.
Quote:
As a group, we have failed to get a grip on fiscal reality:
*The median credit-card debt of low- and middle-income people aged 18 to 34 is $8,200.
*The average college debt for recent grads is more than $20,000 and rising.
*People between the ages of 25 and 34 make up 22.7% of all U.S. bankruptcies (but just 14% of the population at large), according to a recent report.
As a group, we have failed to get a grip on fiscal reality:
*The median credit-card debt of low- and middle-income people aged 18 to 34 is $8,200.
*The average college debt for recent grads is more than $20,000 and rising.
*People between the ages of 25 and 34 make up 22.7% of all U.S. bankruptcies (but just 14% of the population at large), according to a recent report.
Some of these make sense, like if you are going to go broke from opening a business, you should do it earlier in life versus later. However others just seem to be related to having the latest and greatest gadgets and cars.
Quote:
"We're in a generation that was kind of shielded from a lot of financial responsibilities," says Wong. "Twenty years ago, when you were in college you didn't have a credit card, and (now) all of a sudden we had to take on debt to go to college. Then we get out of college and we have to have that handbag and an iPod," she says. "It is so easy to take on debt."
"We're in a generation that was kind of shielded from a lot of financial responsibilities," says Wong. "Twenty years ago, when you were in college you didn't have a credit card, and (now) all of a sudden we had to take on debt to go to college. Then we get out of college and we have to have that handbag and an iPod," she says. "It is so easy to take on debt."
There was certainly credit available twenty years ago. I know because back then when I was slurping slime and evolving into a higher life form, I know myself and several others applied for bank and store credit and had no problem getting it. Sure we didn't get iPods, instead we got an external fan cooler for our Mac Plus or perhaps a nice new Imagewriter II, but we still had toys to desire. (I'm getting the Imagewriter II, a color and Print Shop Deluxe!!)
Quote:
"This generation feels that somehow or another they're going to figure out some technological advancement that's going to get them out of their financial troubles and outsmart the market," says Manning, who served as adviser to the forthcoming documentary "In Debt We Trust." The documentary paints a picture of national financial crisis stemming from the personal-debt burden.
"This generation feels that somehow or another they're going to figure out some technological advancement that's going to get them out of their financial troubles and outsmart the market," says Manning, who served as adviser to the forthcoming documentary "In Debt We Trust." The documentary paints a picture of national financial crisis stemming from the personal-debt burden.
What a strange bit of reasoning... they can't balance a checkbook but are going to short the stock market or perhaps progam the next big website.
So we know parts of this piece are just fluff and like all generations, the last few have had it easier in some ways and harder in others with regard to finances, what do you think the positives and negatives have been for those in their 20-30's with regard current finances?
Comments
Ha! That's one semester for me.
I've got friends that are good Teachers that are ready to quit and move on. Parental involvement in teacher life skills are for the most part non-existent. Everyone is keen on racking up student loans and other debt but what's the gameplane for getting out?
This isssue really isn't the Gen X or whatever people. They're in this position because of the Wolf Tickets they were sold from older and supposedly "experienced" adults.
how can you teach econ or simple business
when the fastest growing classes at our local college....
ARE REMEDIAL READING, MATH, AND ENGLISH....
we have failed (including permissive parents) our high school students creating a permanent underclass, minimal work ethic and teaching " dependency, and entitlement" when i talk with local professors, they say some in the remedial classes are local valedictorians....i chocked
I know "older" generations always question "younger" generations, but i see this so often.
a friend of mine opened up a local national francise, promising to grow to 2 more. after 6 months closed the doors, because "she couldn't get a responsible work force, employee quality was dismal...tardiness, lazy, ---when do i get a raise--after working 2 weeks--
drugs...dept....accountability...entitlement....de pendency....it will crush our country.
You need only look at the piss poor institution that is US Education ...or is that "mis-education"?
I've got friends that are good Teachers that are ready to quit and move on. Parental involvement in teacher life skills are for the most part non-existent. Everyone is keen on racking up student loans and other debt but what's the gameplane for getting out?
This isssue really isn't the Gen X or whatever people. They're in this position because of the Wolf Tickets they were sold from older and supposedly "experienced" adults.
I actually think it's more than that. My theory is that 50 years ago, a certain percentage of people that were "college material" went to college. Who knows what that percentage was...let's say 40% nationwide. Actually...here...from HHS:
In 1995, 62 percent of high school graduates in this age group had completed some college, and 28 percent had received at least a Bachelor?s degree.
College attendance rates for this group have increased dramatically since the early 1970s. The percentage of high school graduates completing at least some college rose from 44 percent in 1971 to 62 percent in 1995 (see Figure EA 1.6.A)
College completion, defined here as receipt of a bachelor?s degree, increased more modestly, from 22 percent of 25- to 29-year-old high school graduates in 1971 to 28 percent of this group in 1995 (see Figure EA 1.6.B)
Let's assume that today's numbers are 70 percent completing some college. Fair enough? Contrast that with 44 percent in 1971. Let's assume that rate was 35% in 1950. OK?
Of course, what these numbers don't show is who is qualified to go to college. What I'm saying is that that number, expressed as a percentage of total students, has not changed and possibly has even gone down. So out of 100 students, let's say 30 are qualified academically to go to college. In 1950, 35 went to school. Today, twice as many go. That's where I think the problem lies. We've created a society where everyone has to go to college to be considered a worthy human being. 50 years ago it was fine to learn a trade or work your way up in retail or go into sales. College is the new high school, and I'm not sure that's a good thing.
i have an econ degree
how can you teach econ or simple business
when the fastest growing classes at our local college....
ARE REMEDIAL READING, MATH, AND ENGLISH....
we have failed (including permissive parents) our high school students creating a permanent underclass, minimal work ethic and teaching " dependency, and entitlement" when i talk with local professors, they say some in the remedial classes are local valedictorians....i chocked
I know "older" generations always question "younger" generations, but i see this so often.
a friend of mine opened up a local national francise, promising to grow to 2 more. after 6 months closed the doors, because "she couldn't get a responsible work force, employee quality was dismal...tardiness, lazy, ---when do i get a raise--after working 2 weeks--
drugs...dept....accountability...entitlement....de pendency....it will crush our country.
See above, though I'm not dismissing this part of the problem.
College is the new high school, and I'm not sure that's a good thing.
That really hits the nail on the head. That's a money quote I need to remember. I'll mke sure to give you credit though.
I talked with a college professor who teaches chemistry at a nearby college. Its a decent school but not a nationally recognized institution. The failure rate for freshman chemistry was so great that they required a minimum score on the ACT in science order to take it. Grade inflation in high school is so great that simply going by high school grades was a poor predictor of performance.
high school had much more value years ago, college more so
NOW...to get a good job, you must compete with more people, having a highschool diploma is a minimum...
the value of both HS and College has gone DOWN
it wasn't too long ago that an elementary teacher needed only a college degree...NOW you need a masters and they specialize.
My grandmother got a job to help support her family....she had only a 3rd grade education, but SHE
KNEW HER NUMBERS and worked the cash register at walgreens and later for Marshall Fields (downtown chicago) for 18 years. how many 3rd graders could as an adult support a family this way???
NOW teachers in the public school system have told me "im just a baby sitter....pressure is put on me to pass pass pass pass...i feel sorry for the next teacher and myself...it's the way it is no wonder so many of my colleagues drop out of education" this is a direct quote, i'm on a competing school board (none of my teachers say anything like this, many of my teachers have retired or left the public school system just for this reason. they the teachers at my kids school have little faith in public schools and they say the results speak HUGE.
so remedial reading classes grow and grow IN COLLEGE
so remedial reading classes grow and grow IN COLLEGE
That boggles my mind. How can someone who is illiterate be accepted into college?
If you can't read, you're not college material. At. Any. College.
There's less time now then there was: people generally work harder/longer, and there's no shortage of things to do in off time.
I simply don't tolerate paper bills. If the financial group in question doesn't have a decent web site, I go elsewhere.
The kids working in the financial markets aren't the same ones who don't know how pay bills. Of course, many of them are still mired in college tuition debt.
Taxes are too high: way too high. The young middle class has been screwed by a compound effect of a tax code that discriminates against young professionals, tax rates that are stupefyingly bloated to begin with, and a glut of boomers preventing career advancement.
I'd like to also point out that "your" grandmother may have been able to pay her bills on a 3rd grade education, but she wasn't capable of saving any money. Now I have to pay through the teeth so she can go on living in a nursing home and get expensive prescription pill cocktails. In the old days, she would have been living at home with you, not sucking down my hard-earned income.
That boggles my mind. How can someone who is illiterate be accepted into college?
If you can't read, you're not college material. At. Any. College.
that's the new reality, interesting the "college " person is part of the statistics that failing HS uses to show HOW SUCCESSFUL they are....see how many go to college....no accountability at multiple levels....massive waste....but they will fill those dependency roles....government loves this
I'll tell ya.
Kids ta-day.
I'll tell ya.
kids didn't create this......adults did politicians....teacher unions.....government.....apathy
kids didn't create this......adults did politicians....teacher unions.....government.....apathy
Teacher unions? TEACHER UNIONS?
How about Teacher salaries? How about teacher benefits? How about Teachers' working hours?
Compare the above to 40 years ago and tell me again why the education system sucks?
Teacher salaries and benefits HAVE NOT matched inflation. Teacher working hours and responsibilities have expanded terribly with regard to extra-curricular activities. Music teachers have been fired and English and math teachers are asked to take their place. Assistant coaches are fired and science and history teachers are asked to perform their duties.
Imagine how things would be without unions...
Who is to blame for this? Ultimately it is parents. But parents have some defense in that they have been (at least partially) duped into accepting educational services provided as a monopoly rather than demanding more choice and better services in the overall education of their kids.
I wouldn't mind all of this so much, except that I'll be one of the people that ends up paying for it through regular taxpayer-funded bailouts, subsidies and "safety nets" that continue to encourage and even reward ignorance, incompetence, mismanagement and generally poor, unwise and risky decisions and choices.
FREEDOM at any price has cost us dearly. Gone are the "old timer" tried and true notions of minimum standards and discipline. Gone is common courtesy in the culture of youth today in many circles.
I just can't imagine the task it must be to teach some of these youth today. Now to be fair I am quite sure we must be careful as not to label all youth this way. It is tragic that the decent youth who have good parents and come from a good upbringing have to be caught up in the nightmare that those with no respect nor drive or focus impose on them in public schools.
No wonder so many parents want to send their children to private schools. To get them away from those who have seemingly forsaken life.
I don't know who we blame but I can say that we each have to take a stand for what we are for despite the ills of society.
Not sure if any of you have seen the film "Freedom Writers"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lejN7Ulh10s
It is on DVD and can be rented etc. I highly recommend this film. It is one of the best films I have seen.
Respectfully,
Fellows
"worthy human being" ????
high school had much more value years ago, college more so
NOW...to get a good job, you must compete with more people, having a highschool diploma is a minimum...
the value of both HS and College has gone DOWN
That is an odd way of looking at it. Perhaps the value has gone down....the value to the employer. But the value to the person with the degree is much higher. If one must have something, it's value is high. We don't disagree here, I just think you've chosen an odd way to look at it.
it wasn't too long ago that an elementary teacher needed only a college degree...NOW you need a masters and they specialize.
Not true exactly. Teachers start with Bachelor's Degrees in most cases. Then, most states require credits afterwards. Most get Masters and even go further because that's how they get raises.
My grandmother got a job to help support her family....she had only a 3rd grade education, but SHE
KNEW HER NUMBERS and worked the cash register at walgreens and later for Marshall Fields (downtown chicago) for 18 years. how many 3rd graders could as an adult support a family this way???
I think you mean "how many people with a 3rd grade education." Not many.
NOW teachers in the public school system have told me "im just a baby sitter....pressure is put on me to pass pass pass pass...i feel sorry for the next teacher and myself...it's the way it is no wonder so many of my colleagues drop out of education" this is a direct quote, i'm on a competing school board (none of my teachers say anything like this, many of my teachers have retired or left the public school system just for this reason. they the teachers at my kids school have little faith in public schools and they say the results speak HUGE.
Depends where you go. My school isn't like that.
so remedial reading classes grow and grow IN COLLEGE
Well, that's true. What do you think about my points in the last post, though?
Teacher unions? TEACHER UNIONS?
How about Teacher salaries? How about teacher benefits? How about Teachers' working hours?
Compare the above to 40 years ago and tell me again why the education system sucks?
Teacher salaries and benefits HAVE NOT matched inflation.
In general that's true. Even in my district, which is rich and pays well, I don't make squat compared to most of the community. It will take until my 11th year teaching (this is 9) to equal what my brother started at after college. He was a product engineer for Agere systems when he started. Same amount of schooling. Twice the salary. Even now, he works for the US Patent Office. He makes twice what I do. Not complaining..but that's the way it is.
Teacher working hours and responsibilities have expanded terribly with regard to extra-curricular activities.
That's not true for the most part...nowhere I've seen anyway. In fact, the opposite is true. 30 years ago teachers ate lunch with their classes and had no prep time. Not so today.
Music teachers have been fired and English and math teachers are asked to take their place.
Depends where, but yes.
Assistant coaches are fired and science and history teachers are asked to perform their duties.
Usually they are faculty members anyway, so I don't think that really holds up.
Imagine how things would be without unions...
I actually don't think they'd be worse. My union is useless. They do nothing and administration does whatever it wants to anyway. PSEA and NEA are useless PACs that send me propaganda every month. For this privilege, I pay $650 a year in dues. I am required to either pay the dues and join, or pay the dues and not join. I have no option.
In fact, the union I belonged to before ended up working against its own teachers. It's kind of like that now as well. We have contractual hours despite being on salary. That means if I'm done teaching at 3:00, I have to stay until the end of the contract day just because. Don't have a meeting and want to come in at 8:45 instead of 8:00? Too bad. You're contractually obligated. I have to sign in and out when leaving. All of this is due to restrictions in the CBA.
And you know what? Without the union, nothing would change. Tenure is a state law, and doesn't mean someone can't be fired anyway. The systems that pay better get the more qualified applicants, so it's sort of a defacto merit-based system as is.
Average college debt is $20,000?
Ha! That's one semester for me.
Don't worry... chicks totally dig guys who live with their parents when they are 28.
You need only look at the piss poor institution that is US Education ...or is that "mis-education"?
I've got friends that are good Teachers that are ready to quit and move on. Parental involvement in teacher life skills are for the most part non-existent. Everyone is keen on racking up student loans and other debt but what's the gameplane for getting out?
This isssue really isn't the Gen X or whatever people. They're in this position because of the Wolf Tickets they were sold from older and supposedly "experienced" adults.
While the rant is well intentioned, if the teachers want to get out because the students do not want to learn, is that really mis-education?
i have an econ degree
how can you teach econ or simple business
when the fastest growing classes at our local college....
ARE REMEDIAL READING, MATH, AND ENGLISH....
we have failed (including permissive parents) our high school students creating a permanent underclass, minimal work ethic and teaching " dependency, and entitlement" when i talk with local professors, they say some in the remedial classes are local valedictorians....i chocked
I know "older" generations always question "younger" generations, but i see this so often.
a friend of mine opened up a local national francise, promising to grow to 2 more. after 6 months closed the doors, because "she couldn't get a responsible work force, employee quality was dismal...tardiness, lazy, ---when do i get a raise--after working 2 weeks--
drugs...dept....accountability...entitlement....de pendency....it will crush our country.
In my views, this is mostly about percentages. We never have an ideal state. It is entirely possible to get a good education even in the worst schools in this country. If you go to any of these inner-city schools that are flunking out half the students, you will still find some percentage getting their college prep work done, understanding the work and getting on with their lives. They may not have learned enough to get into a first choice school, but there are still certain outcomes that are reflected in being disadvantaged.
Now I do feel you are right in that certain attitudes have changed in terms of percentages to a degree that will be harmful but this is not just true of the younger generation. We have a boatload of boomers ready to show up for retirement 75 lbs overweight, smoking, and wanting the magic pill that will fix their health. These kids are merely reflecting their boomer parents in many regards.
...How about Teacher salaries? How about teacher benefits? How about Teachers' working hours?...
Then why did these people go into teaching?... They KNEW before they ever got into that profession what the pay was, what the hours were, what the benefits were. Did they think things would get better AFTER they took the job?
If people wouldn't accept the crappy teaching jobs, the schools would have to raise pay/benefits to attract the teachers they need. No, really. If the teachers had the intestinal fortitude to actually do something instead f complain all day, then things WOULD change.
There are plenty of other jobs they could be doing.
Don't worry... chicks totally dig guys who live with their parents when they are 28.:lol.
I've decided not to make any huge purchases for a couple of years.
Gonna keep driving the Civic. My twin bro (yes, there are two of us!) has a 2008 Z4 (he was lucky enough to be one of only two new hires a major American company took on in the last two years in its industrial design operations). I have a lot more debt though so it's not wise for me to get a new car. I'm also getting a roommate in a cheap apartment, no expensive furniture or electronics purchases (besides a new MBP when the time comes), no extravagant vacations, I'll brew my own starbucks iced coffee (this seriously is a huge savings right here), and so on. So the goal, obviously, is to pay that off as quickly as possible.
I'm putting 100% of what i'm allowed to contribute into retirement. But other than frugal living for a few years and retirement contributions, I'm not sure what exactly I should be paying off and whether I should also look into investing, etc. Pay off high interest loans first? Consolidate? Start investing on the side? Gah.
I've decided not to make any huge purchases for a couple of years.
Gonna keep driving the Civic. My twin bro (yes, there are two of us!) has a 2008 Z4 (he was lucky enough to be one of only two new hires a major American company took on in the last two years in its industrial design operations). I have a lot more debt though so it's not wise for me to get a new car. I'm also getting a roommate in a cheap apartment, no expensive furniture or electronics purchases (besides a new MBP when the time comes), no extravagant vacations, I'll brew my own starbucks iced coffee (this seriously is a huge savings right here), and so on. So the goal, obviously, is to pay that off as quickly as possible.
I'm putting 100% of what i'm allowed to contribute into retirement. But other than frugal living for a few years and retirement contributions, I'm not sure what exactly I should be paying off and whether I should also look into investing, etc. Pay off high interest loans first? Consolidate? Start investing on the side? Gah.
If you do all that, you'll be fine. I always paid aggressively on the debt that had the smallest balance first so that I could get it paid off quickly and than roll the money I was paying on that debt into the next so as to accelerate the payoff.
For me when I was first getting started and had a lot of debt, it was psychologically uplifting to see a debt get paid off. Others may have different thoughts and strategies. Any plan is better than NO plan. when I finished dental school and took my first real job I had a negative net worth. That was pretty depressing at the time.
It's the people that do none of that who will suffer.