Mac Pro or iMac? On the precipice of converting to Mac
Hi all,
I'm going to be going to graduate school in a few months and I'm looking to get myself a new computer and would really appreciate some advice at the moment. I'm currently deciding between an iMac (with the nVidia card and extra RAM) or a Mac Pro. Ideally, I'm looking for a system that will last me 5 years or longer. My current desktop is 5+ years old (I bought it before I started college)-- yes it is a Windows system, and yes, I'm most probably converting to a Mac. Part of the reason that my PC has lasted so long is because I kept upgrading the videocard (and because I didn't upgrade to Vista
).
I would say that the main reason I would forsee myself being forced to upgrade my Mac over the next few years would be because of gaming. There was definitely a time where I was VERY big on computer games, though I'm not sure if I can really keep up this time-consuming hobby anymore once I'm starting professional school. Also, I'm not 100% sure I understand how bootcamp works: this is probably a really stupid question, but will I be able to install new drivers for my videocard and update direct X in bootcamp mode?
So right now I'm pretty torn. The Mac Pro is more expensive and I would have to buy a new monitor (my current one is pretty worn out), but I could see it lasting for a very, long time. It seems that the Power Macs are built incredibly well... it's super easy to add new hard drives and memories. The iMac is cheaper and it comes with a nice screen. I would appreciate any input/advice, especially if any of you have had to ponder similar dilemmas.
I'm going to be going to graduate school in a few months and I'm looking to get myself a new computer and would really appreciate some advice at the moment. I'm currently deciding between an iMac (with the nVidia card and extra RAM) or a Mac Pro. Ideally, I'm looking for a system that will last me 5 years or longer. My current desktop is 5+ years old (I bought it before I started college)-- yes it is a Windows system, and yes, I'm most probably converting to a Mac. Part of the reason that my PC has lasted so long is because I kept upgrading the videocard (and because I didn't upgrade to Vista
).I would say that the main reason I would forsee myself being forced to upgrade my Mac over the next few years would be because of gaming. There was definitely a time where I was VERY big on computer games, though I'm not sure if I can really keep up this time-consuming hobby anymore once I'm starting professional school. Also, I'm not 100% sure I understand how bootcamp works: this is probably a really stupid question, but will I be able to install new drivers for my videocard and update direct X in bootcamp mode?
So right now I'm pretty torn. The Mac Pro is more expensive and I would have to buy a new monitor (my current one is pretty worn out), but I could see it lasting for a very, long time. It seems that the Power Macs are built incredibly well... it's super easy to add new hard drives and memories. The iMac is cheaper and it comes with a nice screen. I would appreciate any input/advice, especially if any of you have had to ponder similar dilemmas.
Comments
Hi all,
I'm going to be going to graduate school in a few months and I'm looking to get myself a new computer and would really appreciate some advice at the moment. I'm currently deciding between an iMac (with the nVidia card and extra RAM) or a Mac Pro. Ideally, I'm looking for a system that will last me 5 years or longer. My current desktop is 5+ years old (I bought it before I started college)-- yes it is a Windows system, and yes, I'm most probably converting to a Mac. Part of the reason that my PC has lasted so long is because I kept upgrading the videocard (and because I didn't upgrade to Vista
I would say that the main reason I would forsee myself being forced to upgrade my Mac over the next few years would be because of gaming. There was definitely a time where I was VERY big on computer games, though I'm not sure if I can really keep up this time-consuming hobby anymore once I'm starting professional school. Also, I'm not 100% sure I understand how bootcamp works: this is probably a really stupid question, but will I be able to install new drivers for my videocard and update direct X in bootcamp mode?
So right now I'm pretty torn. The Mac Pro is more expensive and I would have to buy a new monitor (my current one is pretty worn out), but I could see it lasting for a very, long time. It seems that the Power Macs are built incredibly well... it's super easy to add new hard drives and memories. The iMac is cheaper and it comes with a nice screen. I would appreciate any input/advice, especially if any of you have had to ponder similar dilemmas.
If you foresee yourself upgrading the video card the Mac Pro is really the only way to go. It may be possible to upgrade the video card on the iMac but it would be very difficult and would, I suspect, void the warranty. There is an established upgrade path for video cards on the first gen Mac Pros. You should have no problems (outside of usual windows hassels) installing new drivers in a bootcamp partition. Its basically a pc for all intents and purposes.
I would ask yourself how much gaming you really expect to do in the future because the imac is probably the better choice for you. Especially since you need a new display.
A good test is to ask yourself how well kit that is five years old today, has stood the test of time. The Power Mac G5 will still be rocking, and you'll be able to further extend their lifespan via RAM upgrades and things like RAID 0. But the iMacs will most certainly be showing their age.
Grad school and time for video games? In my experience those two things don't mesh too well. I take my MBP with me everywhere for school and can't imagine not having it. I have a 24" imac at home that I chose over a MP because of both price and the desire to have an all-in-one.
The grad school and video games comment is right on target. Different, certainly, from the undergrad world of discovery.
I, too, think in terms of a home base-- now iMac 24" and road and class-- MBP (for me it is the 17", but then I'm big and love the 800 port to link to the iMac. I know, I should do it wirelessly, but I'm lazy.
What games/applications (if any) make good use of the Pro's quad-core processing power?
What games/applications (if any) make good use of the Pro's quad-core processing power?
You'll be gaming under Windows so whatever games that use multiple cores will use the quad. One that hasn't been released yet:
http://www.alanwake.com/
uses multiple cores to do the physics simulations. Check out some of the videos. There was a presentation where they demoed it using a new-at-the-time quad core CPU.
I reckon more and more new games will be using quads to their advantage.
I'd say definitely go for the Mac Pro - if you like performance, you'll rightly feel like a sissy girl with frilly pants owning an iMac. The price difference isn't actually all that much when you compare the higher up iMacs with the good GPU and the 2.8GHz quad with an 8800GT. Even including a cheap display, the iMac is only a little cheaper but you get twice the CPU, a faster GPU and upgradability with the Mac Pro.
Easy choice IMO. You can even have a separate drive for Windows and games instead of partitioning your Mac drive.
You make a convincing argument, my friend.
If you are set on one machine, get the quad core Mac Pro and not the 8 core one, that will give you the money to spend on a real video card and not the crap they bundle in with the stock one. Also, remember that you can't put any video card into the Mac Pro, it has to be one specially designed for the Mac Pro, so its going to cost you more and be older then the ones you can get on the PC. Boot camp does allow you to upgrade the video card drivers too, although I'm not sure with the iMac since it may be using a mobile video card, which are usually a pain to upgrade the drivers for.
If you want to switch and spend that much, have you thought about getting a MacBook and building a PC? I was in a similar position as you, and could build a machine which better suited my needs as a desktop for about $800 (3 ghz proc, 4 gigs ram, 9600gt, etc) and just bought a used MB on ebay for $700 (still under warranty too). It would cost less then the Mac Pro, give you more ability to upgrade (expect to spend $400 on new video cards for the MP when you'd spend $200 or less on the same card for the PC), and give you a very important portable computer for grad school.
I am wrapping up grad school and having a laptop makes doing work a lot easier. I bring it to the library and other places to do work. I also decided to not do PC games for a while and bought an xbox 360. Its not the same as using a PC, but its cheaper and offers a nice experience.
So wrapping up, I think you should just get a laptop, or get a laptop and build your own machine, instead of getting a Mac Pro. The iMac won't offer what you want, and the Mac Pro is overkill for what you need, and costs way too much for what you would use it for.
If you want to switch and spend that much, have you thought about getting a MacBook and building a PC?
That's what I did years ago, and what I'll continue to do.
One option is to build a PC for your gaming, because most macs simply don't match up to a decently geared PC of the same price for that purpose (flame away, I've done the maths on this) and buy a refurb MacBook or similar. It'll be a cheaper introduction into a whole new OS that you very well may not get along with. better to spend less money when you're just testing the waters right?
As for upgrading the BootCamp machine, yes you will be able to upgrade DirectX, since it's a software component for Windows, but unless Apple releases a video driver update, there's not alot you can do there.
My recommendation is to buy an iMac and install Windows via BootCamp, or in the worst case, VMware. Don't go near parallels if you value any of your 3D games. They probably won't work. 3D games in BootCamp run about the same as they would on a proper PC.
True that it likely won't last 5+ years (only because of new games that will be released), but with the thousands of dollars you'll save buying an imac instead of a mac pro + monitor, you'll easily be able to buy a current model iMac or move to a well geared PC.
Well, for one thing, even though I'm "converting", I definitely have had fairly extensive exposure to Macs (I've had to use one a LOT over the past year for performing analysis in the lab that I am working at) so the odds of me not liking the Mac are not very likely. It's because I had such an enjoyable experience and had become so proficient with our lab Macs that I am considering the upgrade and not some random whim. (Unfortunately I don't think my PI is going to give me a Mac as a parting gift).
I definitely was not aware that videocards cost double the amount for Macs and that is something that I will definitely have to keep in mind. I would consider the Macbook + PC option but my school is giving us all laptops (tablet PCs) which we're expected to use and I will probably stick with that for school use. I guess right now part of me is just still stubbornly clinging to the fantasy of having an uber-computer waiting for me at home.
Thank you again! If any of you have any more input to add, I'd greatly welcome and appreciate it.
Buy the computer you need now and not the one you may need in the future. Technology advances at a very fast pace so I think you are better off buying an iMac 24" 2.8 with the NVIDIA card for $1949 than getting a Mac Pro 4 cores with the NVIDIA card, airport card, webcam + microphone and an IPS 24" monitor for at least $3100.
It's not that much difference because you don't need an IPS monitor for gaming. He'd be hard pressed to find one that reflective anyway if you compare like for like.
The Mac Pro allows you to get any display you want and you should be able to pick up a decent Samsung for $200.
So 2.8GHz quad, 8800GT ($2,449) + $200 = $2,649
vs 2.8GHz dual, 8800GS = $1,949
So for $700, you get your choice of display, your choice of hard drive setup (15,000 rpm, RAID for example), you can get matching dual displays, a 30% faster video card, faster, quieter optical drive and you don't have to send it back when you get some dead pixels on your screen.
I admit that spec-wise the iMac is decent so long as you look past its shortcomings. The Mac Pro has no shortcomings to deal with. It's just a powerful, well-built, reliable, flexible and affordable tower.
If the iMac spec came in a tower at the same or lower price then things might be different but it doesn't.
I admit that spec-wise the iMac is decent so long as you look past its shortcomings. The Mac Pro has no shortcomings to deal with. It's just a powerful, well-built, reliable, flexible and affordable tower.
You seem to forget that the needs of power users are not the same as the needs of normal users because you are putting too much value on things that a normal user is very unlikely to use like the possibility of using 15000 rpm HD/RAID or having expansion slots and very little on things like a very nice screen that is gonna be enjoyed every single time you use the computer.
you don't have to send it back when you get some dead pixels on your screen.
I never experienced a case of a LCD screen developing dead pixels over time but what would be the difference of sending back the whole computer or just the screen? Having a computer without a screen is pretty much the same as not having a computer.
Buy the computer you need now and not the one you may need in the future. Technology advances at a very fast pace so I think you are better off buying an iMac 24" 2.8 with the NVIDIA card for $1949 than getting a Mac Pro 4 cores with the NVIDIA card, airport card, webcam + microphone and an IPS 24" monitor for at least $3100. Then if in two or three years the iMac is not enough you just sell it and with what you get for it plus the at least $1150 you saved in the first place you will be able to buy a new one that by then will likely have things that the current Mac Pro can only dream of.
This sums up my thoughts exactly. Unless of course you KNOW that you'll need the extra power of the Mac Pro (which is only really as powerful as the extra money you throw at it). There is no point wasting money on overkill.
I never experienced a case of a LCD screen developing dead pixels over time but what would be the difference of sending back the whole computer or just the screen? Having a computer without a screen is pretty much the same as not having a computer.
When you send back your computer, your data goes with it. I can go into a store and pick up a spare display and start working again within a few hours. Apple typically take a week at least to get something fixed.
What if they then break something that wasn't broken before? It has happened.
Dead pixels are not a huge problem because it's a repair you can prepare for but what if your display develops a fault? Your hard drive is all but sealed inside so if you were in the middle of something important - say working on a job for an important client, you have to send the machine away.
This is not only an issue for privacy but just because your deadline would have to be pushed back.