I have a question to all geeks here
OS X 's UNIX foundation allows UNIX apps to run with minimum or even no modification.
I am wondering how it works....also some apps do have GUI, how can they run on OSX with aqua interface???? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
Comments
The fink project is a testament to that. They've gotten a bunch of stuff over as "quick n dirty" ports, but they clearly don't run natively (but that depends on your definition of "native"). Most require an XWindows environment to run, such as XDarwin. Unfortunately, these XWindows servers do not behave much like Aqua (though OroborOSX is getting pretty close). To get these apps to run seamlessly in Mac OS X would require a *major* rewrite. That's why I don't expect OpenOffice to be a true replacement for Microsoft Office any time soon; it requires the XWindows environment and thus has a lot of quirky behaviors.
For an example of XWindows on OSX, take a look at this snapshot. I'm running Mozilla, XMMS (a music player), and a couple Terminals in my XDarwin environment. Note the window dressings and the stark difference between them and Aqua windows.
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/XDarwinSnap001.png"; target="_blank">
Click 4 teh biggar!
Also, I've succeeded in installing the window manager WindowMaker but I haven't succeeded in compiling The Gimp. Half way through it tells me that I'm missing some kind of file.
I never got Fink to download the stuff over the internet so what I always did was download them and stick the files under the Fink directory. How would I tell Fink to recognise my connection?
Back on topic: Is there any chance of writing an Xwindows clone that would let UNIX apps that require Xwindows to run under OS X with an Aqua (instead of Xwindows) interface? Or is that something that would not be worth the effort or is technically impossible?
Escher
<strong>starfleetX, do apps run slow under XDarwin?</strong><hr></blockquote>Well, the app "internals" probably run pretty fast, but the UI itself is rather sluggish. You know how the UI feels slow in Netscape and Mozilla? It's like that. If you can tolerate it, then it's good.
[quote]I never got Fink to download the stuff over the internet so what I always did was download them and stick the files under the Fink directory. How would I tell Fink to recognise my connection?<hr></blockquote>This is kinda a shot in the dark, but do you have a firewall or proxy setup?
[quote]Originally posted by Escher:
starfleetX: On a completely unrelated note, did you intentionally misspell Lambda, the name of your second partition/drive without the letter b<hr></blockquote>Yeah, it's intentional. It's a bad, long-running, inside joke between some guys I went to school with.
[quote]Back on topic: Is there any chance of writing an Xwindows clone that would let UNIX apps that require Xwindows to run under OS X with an Aqua (instead of Xwindows) interface? Or is that something that would not be worth the effort or is technically impossible?<hr></blockquote>I'd say it's bordering on "technically impossible" though I wouldn't be surprised with what some people come up with. After all, take a look at OroborOSX in action: It mimics Aqua windows behavior pretty well, using translucent titles, dock minimization, and proper window layering (clicking one window doesn't bring all of them to the front).
important note: OroborOSX is *not* using system calls to draw the Aqua windows. As I said, it "mimics" Aqua through several skins that have copies of the Aqua elements in them. The skins themselves aren't even quite right, as you can tell the color and alpha of the translucent part of the windows isn't 100% right.
[ 05-21-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>
<strong>It's a bad, long-running, inside joke between some guys I went to school with.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, I'm glad you're not accidentally defacing the venerable greek language.
[quote]<strong>I'd say it's bordering on "technically impossible" though I wouldn't be surprised with what some people come up with. After all, take a look at OroborOSX in action: It mimics Aqua windows behavior pretty well</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thanks for the candid response. Even though, or especially because, OroborOSX is not using system calls to draw the Aqua windows, the way it mimics Aqua is rather impressive. I assume that OroborOSX is mimicking Aqua because that is easier than using system calls. (I would have assumed naively that using system calls would be easier than duplicating Aqua on your own, but I obviously have no basis for judgement.)
I definitely think there is a market for a universal Aqua-like front end to UNIX apps, especially within the scientific community. So, for example, could you run OpenOffice with an OroborOSX front end instead of Xwindows?
Escher
[Edit: Had to correct that awful "your" instead of "you're". Shame on Escher.]
[ 05-22-2002: Message edited by: Escher ]</p>
Nah... that is Cyrillic's job! Butchered Greek w/ Latin grammer and Slavic wordbase... Russian is fun!
StarfleetX: Are you a fan of the Lambda-Calculus langs like Scheme and LISP? Just curious... We seem to be rarer and rarer nowadays....
I hope PLT releases a OS X version of DrScheme... I am so used to that environment. i just hope that being the good programmers those guys are, they make it a Cocoa app... If anyone can make the learning-curve leap to ObjC it should be the programming lang team at Rice!
*sigh* ..oh well....
[ 05-22-2002: Message edited by: Aslan ]</p>
hahahaha how did you figure that? you couldn't be more wrong
[QB]starfleetX, do apps run slow under XDarwin?
Also, I've succeeded in installing the window manager WindowMaker but I haven't succeeded in compiling The Gimp. Half way through it tells me that I'm missing some kind of file.[QUOTE]
Will XDarwin run X86 based applications? is XMMS an x86 based app? I wanna run a program called MUGEN. Theres a DOS release and a several Linux releases. I tried to run it under Mandrake Linux under Virtual PC but it didnt load at all... Will XDarwin solve my problem? I posted this same reply in another thread but i made it more detailed here.
I have XMMS on my iMac running Linux. So I don't see why you wouldn't be able to get it running.
If you want it working you're going to have to track down the error messages and figgure out what's going on. Tweak the code and/or compile and remake it.
Xmms is good stuff; while certainly on the fugly side of aesthetics, it uses ~12% CPU on my 292mhz PBG3.
Is there any chance of writing an Xwindows clone that would let UNIX apps that require Xwindows to run under OS X with an Aqua (instead of Xwindows) interface? Or is that something that would not be worth the effort or is technically impossible?
[/QB]<hr></blockquote>
It takes alot of hacking, but it's not impossible. Basically, what you need is a "native" window manager integrated into your X Server. Check out
<a href="http://www.tenon.com/products/xtools/"; target="_blank">Xtools</a>. It has what you are looking for, but it costs $200 and I heard it's buggy.
<strong>do you have to do something to allow xmms to play? i have it running on xdarwin but it's a no go when i push play, i get 2 errors ... don't remember exact but one recommends i make sure no other app is locking sound card??? i dunno, will get detailed errors but it's a pain</strong><hr></blockquote>You need to manually initialize esd *before* launching XMMS. First, see if an instance is running and kill it. Then enter this command:
esd -port 16001 &
Then you can safely launch XMMS and listen to your music.
It probably should be pointed out that the Xfree windows wont look anyting like the aqua ones and as of today the drawing in XDarwin/Xfree is very slow compared to aqua!
The fink projekt that has been mentioned is a greate place to start and it offers a greate number of tools even if you dont want to install XDarwin.
Have fun!
I wanna see if you XDarwin cats have hardware acceleration turned on. I've heard a couple times that X11 is 'slow' compared to Quartz.
However, maybe X and Q can't share the hardware(?)
My email is rupert at stimuli.ca