Jobs responds to outrage over MacBook's missing FireWire

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  • MarvinMarvin Posts: 13,728member, moderator
    I actually forgot about products like VMWare and Parallels. They might support USB-Firewire capture devices like this one:



    http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSit...version+12.htm



    At a stretch, you might be able to record the capture to a shared folder on the Mac. This might be pushing too far for HD capture though.



    Maybe Pinnacle could be persuaded to make a Mac driver for that device given that they have other Mac products. They could be working on it already. Given that all Macs in the past 10 years have had firewire, there was no need for this. This has opened up a pretty large market.



    Apple will probably sell a few million of these macbooks and a good percentage will be movie buffs who would rather buy a $100 capture device than a new camcorder.
  • jcassarajcassara Posts: 39member
    I still need it.
  • mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    Capturing is donkey work anyway, you may as well let a PC do it.





    Maybe but you still need to preview and scrub, set ins and outs and log the clips. You'll need some decent movie software and a display. Not like you just capture the whole reel into a single file on a headless server. I think it would be more like hundreds of dollars rather than $50.
  • tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by diskimage View Post


    When I heard that the new MacBooks did not come with FireWire I was rather unhappy. So I went to the MacBook feedback page and sent some feedback on my opinion on FireWire. At this point I went from unhappy to downright mad because when I sent my feedback it asked for my name and I stupidly used my real name.



    Today I tried logging into my apple ADC account and it appears that my account has been disabled and the only reason I can think of is because I sent negative feedback about the lack of FireWire in the new MacBooks.



    Has this happened to anyone else?





    I am deeply hoping that's just a coincidence, as it would be truly pathetic of Apple to do that intentionally.



    Wouldn't be shocked, though. It's well-known that Steve does have something of a tit-for-tat petty streak.



    ...
  • mj webmj web Posts: 872member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Of course it's all about marketing.



    There have been years of evidence of Apple letting go of FW400 which was clearly obsolescing.



    The cases you see in the MB and MBP will be pretty much the same for the next 3-4 years. Hopefully, they will add the chip(s) that allow FW400/800 over Ethernet as I posted above in an earlier post.



    Can you cite any evidence where AAPL indicated it was phasing out Firewire (forget about the 400 vs. 800 argument -- that isn't the point)

    What about loyal customers with a heavy investment in FW peripherals who require a more mobile 13 inch Macbook?

    So you agree with me that AAPL has sacrifices superior technology for the sake of marketing?
  • leonardleonard Posts: 528member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jcassara View Post


    Firewire Target Disk Mode



    I still need it.





    Care to expand on that. Why?



    - to migrate data?

    - to trouble shoot?

    - other?



    To migrate data has been solved by Apple. Migration Assistant will use Ethernet or wireless networks.



    Troubleshooting using Target Disk mode is not solved as far as I know. Target disk mode was very useful, and it's alot of work removing a laptop HD and putting it in another machine.
  • noirdesirnoirdesir Posts: 1,026member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by someone11 View Post


    It would have been nice for Apple to add eSATA to the MacBook and MBP as a replacement for/complement to FW, since we won't get USB 3 until late next year and USB 2 is just too slow for many applications. The nVidia chipset offers six SATA channels in total, so there should be four spare channels for eSATA. SATA and all SATA devices are designed to be hot-pluggable; eSATA is just an alternative connector design, therefore no additional chips are needed to support this. In addition, Apple could license the combined USB/eSATA connector design from MSI, which basically means eSATA support will NOT require any extra space. Finally, eSATA can easily support target disk mode, Apple just needs to add some code in the firmware to turn the computer into a large SATA drive enclosure. In fact, Apple had already filed a patent for this very idea: http://arstechnica.com/journals/appl...mode-for-esata, so I am guessing eSATA support is definitely being looked at.



    As nice as eSATA is (no extra controller, maximum speed), it is not bus-powered. You can drive a dual 2.5" drive array of the bus power of Firewire 800. For all mobile devices (ie, those devices not sitting permanently on or under your desk), Firewire 800 (and even more so Firewire 3200) over clear advantages that those people who care about convenience and performance and easily willing to pay a bit more for.
  • leonardleonard Posts: 528member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by johnqh View Post


    I would rather just use a USB stick.



    Oops, did I mention USB? I wonder why where wasn't any Firewire stick......



    Actually, I've heard of Firewire sticks. I don't think there are too many as they are expensive.



    http://www.kanguru.com/fireflash.html



    http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/periphera...fed-245941.php





    That you haven't heard of such, just proves that USB 2.0 peripherals are more popular.
  • charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,069member
    i really wonder just how much of a problem this is. A fair number of 'serious amateurs and professionals' are likely to have gotten a MacBookPro anyway cause of the way better graphics card and that as I recall still has firewire. As for the consumer editing home movies of his keys, he's probably got an iMac for the family and not a laptop and that still has firewire.



    The MacBook is clearly being marketed to the non film school/music school students and general public doing email/word processing etc and NOT to the market that is doing video, advanced photo work, music work. ANd it seems like it has been that way for a while. And do those peeps really need firewire, perhaps not.
  • charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,069member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rawhead View Post


    Stupid comparisons.



    Display port: you cannot NOT have a video out port; the core customer -- college students -- often absolutely need it for PowerPoint presentations, etc.





    go look at the Apple Store site. there are displayport to DVI/VGA/Dual DVI adapters. just like you had for the mini-dvi and micro-dvi ports.
  • charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,069member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    1) DisplayPort has no disadvantage over the various DVI versions Apple was using. It'll be cheaper as ALL Macs will have the exact same port, the licensing free, it's highly scalable and robust which make it very future forward.





    not to mention that one single port type is more end user friendly for the non tech types. they don't have to walk in and remember both if the other end should be dvi or vga AND if the computer is dvi, mini dvi or micro dvi. screw it up and you get to drive back to the mall to get the right one. or worse, you don't realize it until you are on the road and can't replace it.
  • charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,069member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Is it wrong for a consumer to seek a financial benefit and work towards their own best self interest?



    no but apparently it is wrong for a company to
  • cavallocavallo Posts: 57member
    So tell me - when the backlight dies on an average consumer's shiny, new MacBook, what does he do? Take it to an Apple Store, where they'll ask if he's backed up his data? He'll say no, more than likely. Although he could have if he'd been able to turn the computer into a dumb FW drive. His fault for not backing up? Sure. Good customer experience? Nope. There will be no dewey-eyed switchers bemusedly remarking that working with their old, broken Windows laptop had never been so easy.



    In my office I have an older Mac Mini with broken video out. I haven't bothered having it repaired because I don't need to. I just pop it into FW target disk mode, attach it to another Mini, and I can do anything I like with it, including booting from it and installing and configuring an OS from scratch if I need to. Now that it's set up, I run it as a little, headless mini-server doing odd-jobs for me. Without target disk mode, it would be a brick.



    Would the average consumer ever do any of this this? Likely not. However, what's good for the service technicians is ultimately good for the consumer.



    Video and Audio are important, but Target Disk Mode is the real loss here. Apple products have always differentiated themselves NOT merely on the basis of the OS. The hardware has always offered innovative features as well, many targeted at the people who wind up called upon to fix the things when they break.



    As Apple systematically eliminates the points that differentiate their hardware from the hordes of generic slop out there, there will be less and less reason not to buy that slop, especially when you can hack OSX onto it anyway.
  • someone11someone11 Posts: 9member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post


    As nice as eSATA is (no extra controller, maximum speed), it is not bus-powered. You can drive a dual 2.5" drive array of the bus power of Firewire 800. For all mobile devices (ie, those devices not sitting permanently on or under your desk), Firewire 800 (and even more so Firewire 3200) over clear advantages that those people who care about convenience and performance and easily willing to pay a bit more for.



    USB 2 offers enough power for single notebook drives. Although most USB bus-powered drive come with a connector that draws power from both USB ports, I have found that the iBook can power such drives with a single USB port.



    2.5" drive array is what I would call a common usage scenario. If you need that much storage, you are better off with a 3.5" drive array and neither FW or USB can power a full size HD, let alone a drive array.
  • clickmyfaceclickmyface Posts: 79member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by palex9 View Post




    BLUE RAY TO EXPENSIVE? NOT TRUE. SONY VAIO FW LINE OF LAPTOPS OFFERS BLURAY READER/WRITER AS A 150/300 OPTiON.



    Yes, thats because Sony owns huge pieces of the blu-ray technology......... everyone else seems to be having a hard time getting profitable licenses. Imagine that.
  • charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,069member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by plokoonpma View Post


    I can't boot from an USB 2.0



    wait a second, you can't boot a computer from a USB attached drive. So how is it that just yesterday I booted my Macbook Air from a wired external drive. did they start making firewire ports look just like USB 2.0. and cables too. cause I'm pretty darn sure that I was using USB.



    and yes I did say that I booted it from that drive. I had made a bootable external drive for emergencies.



    it was a tad slower than perhaps firewire would have been but then again the computer itself is slower than other models so who knows which was the major factor. regardless things weren't that much slower for my tastes.
  • robb01robb01 Posts: 148member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by clickmyface View Post


    Yes, thats because Sony owns huge pieces of the blu-ray technology......... everyone else seems to be having a hard time getting profitable licenses. Imagine that.



    Shocker!



    _________________

  • charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,069member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by plokoonpma View Post


    I have customers with old first generation PowerBooks, Power Macs and alike.



    it's not like their machines suddenly won't have firewire on them. if they had it before, they have it now. so that's moot.



    and if they upgrade they will get an Intel Mac that boots just fine from USB
  • charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,069member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by plokoonpma View Post




    If I learned something all this 25 years as Apple user is that quality goest first always







    those that want quality have no issue with the extra $400 to get a low end Pro. because they want the quality of the better screen, better connection ports and better graphics cards.
  • charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,069member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by trip1ex View Post




    The facts are that FW never caught on in the mass market. Intel came out with a much cheaper standard and the lower cost, does the job, good enough interface won the battle.



    HD v Blu-Ray. two entered, one remained.
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