[...] CD writers [...] weren't standard on MacBooks until a month ago.
Where are you getting that from? Apple's consumer laptops (the MacBooks and iBooks before them) have had Combo Drives for years, which simply lack the ability to write DVDs, not CDs.
Where are you getting that from? Apple's consumer laptops (the MacBooks and iBooks before them) have had Combo Drives for years, which simply lack the ability to write DVDs, not CDs.
obviously im not a video editor, but i like to know what makes it so different than over USB if you have the option? is it the speed?
Firewire has a dedicated controller that handles the traffic and therefor can handle data speedier and better.. USB on the other hand uses the main CPU for that..
Firewire can also be used in a same way SCSI can be used. you can attach a firewire cable to an (offline) computer and access the harddisk inside (and also boot from). it has presence in the backplane of some computing systems. Although this is not possible on windows machines as far as i know.
Apple should have kept a firewire 800 port on their new laptop series for the normal macbooks!!
this is stupid, "hey, if you still want to use your old camera, buy a $2000 laptop, we at apple are the best and should go back to windows if you don't like it.."
and then you ask yourself why apple has such a great cross-margin in their quarter results...
The MBP's are too expensive and consumer laptops nowdays start at $600 and almost offer the same tech specs, with firewire! Apple wake up!
Apple should have kept a firewire 800 port on their new laptop series for the normal macbooks.
The MBP's are way expensive and consumer laptops nowdays start at $600 and almost offer the same tech specs, with firewire!
The MacBooks (and the PowerPC iBooks before them) never shipped with FW 800, so it makes very little sense to expect Apple to introduce such a thing on their consumer laptops when FW 400 has obviously been a flop with the majority of those who buy MacBooks: students and Windows switchers who never used Firewire to begin with.
Of course there's always going to be a $600 piece of crap Windows laptop with a ton of ports, legacy and otherwise. Apple's clearly not interested in competing in that profitless market...because they're outpacing the industry 4 to 1 selling well made, future-forward, fairly minimalist premium computers.
The MacBooks (and the PowerPC iBooks before them) never shipped with FW 800, so it makes very little sense to expect Apple to introduce such a thing on their consumer laptops when FW 400 has obviously been a flop with the majority of those who buy MacBooks: students and Windows switchers who never used Firewire to begin with.
Of course there's always going to be a $600 piece of crap Windows laptop with a ton of ports, legacy and otherwise. Apple's clearly not interested in competing in that profitless market...because they're outpacing the industry 4 to 1 selling well made, future-forward, fairly minimalist premium computers.
I can agree to skip the old FW400, but why not promote FW800 in stead and still keep old (cons/semi/pro) users happy?
USB previously won because of the license fee involved with FW. This is their 2nd change
How else do you wanna enforce a popular computing standard to start with..
If you've spend thousands on hardware you need FW on your computer in order to use it.
2. Unlike USB, it supports isochronous connections - data (like video) can be streamed in real-time. This is pretty much essential for DV/MiniDV. I don't think USB could handle DV if it tried
If anyone doesn't yet appreciate this difference, consider: I can hook my sony mini-DV camcorder to my f/w equipped MB and operate the camcorder from the computer. For capturing video, editing from segment-to-segment as you go, that's invaluable. It's really a loss i can't imagine how to replace (other than, of course, keeping my MB or buying a new MBP; in the first case apple loses a customer; in the second i lose (by gaining) 3/4 lb of light and lose (by gaining considerably on the footprint. (granted, add'l features, too, with the MBP; but for those for whom the MB would be just good enough--in fact, great--if it had sustained the f/w it already had in the prior iteration, that's a pretty painful difference, especially since the CPU speed doesn't increase and the price does). It's both a practical loss and a value equation loss. IMHO.
Given current economic circumstances, and with Apple's long tradition of adding features/reducing prices, i think the present example of reducing features and increasing prices is ill advised. I hope i'm wrong; as a consumer, i know i'm ill-served by the decisions.
I can agree to skip the old FW400, but why not promote FW800 in stead and still keep old (cons/semi/pro) users happy?
USB previously won because of the license fee involved with FW. This is their 2nd change
How else do you wanna enforce a popular computing standard to start with..
Well, what's keeping Apple from swapping out something else in favor of FW 800 in a future MacBook? They very well could if they marketed FW 800 as something that would make sycing your iPhone or iPod way faster than USB 2.0. Remember, they dropped FW 800 on the original MacBook Pro and then brought it back in the next iteration. USB 2.0 ain't gonna last forever, we both agree on that. Perhaps Apple's working on a new standard. Regardless, at the moment it's clear they are done with FW 400 as it's advantage in speed, which is all any average consumer would care about, is now pretty much gone thanks to faster USB 2.0 on the new MacBooks.
They've been promoting an alternate standard and the mass market has rejected it; Apple even helped by dropping syncing over Firewire on recent iPods and the iPhone from day one. All Firewire was doing was costing Apple money. I have to admit, it's sad to see a superior interface bite the dust, but I doubt this will be the last we see of custom Apple interfaces.
Hah, look at Mini DisplayPort, for starters. Now even the MacBook Air can output to a 30" Cinema Display at full 2560x1600 resolution!
I first heard this term (and I suspect this is it's origin) in reference to the old IBM PC Jr. My Dad ran IBM mainframe computers for stock brokerages back in the 1960s and 1970s. His first home computer was the "light" version of IBM's first PC, marketed as the PC Jr. It came with a keyboard not unlike Apple's current design. At the time it was widely derided as the weakest link in the IBM product, not unlike the puck mouse in later years with Apple. Anyway, IBM was so shaken by the criticism that it replaced what was being called the "chiclet" keyboard with a conventional one. I believe it shipped them free of charge to PC Jr. owners. By the way, I love the chiclet keyboards that come with new iMacs.
I want to add my voice to the chorus of the disappointed: no firewire, no 13" for me. I'm on my second 12" g4 powerbook and will continue to wait for an ultra-portable that gives me the same flexibility. Or: throw in the towel and opt for a 15" Macbook Pro.
Even though Sony has Blu ray, their display is nowhere near HD capable (Even though they say HD supported). the 13.1 inch only supports 768 no 1080. Only the huge and heavy laptops supports HD resolution. Which is not comparable with the 13.3" macbook.
Most Sony Notebooks have HDMI so you can easily plug the laptop to any HD Flat screen. Also the Vaio Z series (which is a 13.1 inch blu ray capable notebook) has a native 1600 by 900 screen res.
On floppies, I think it was a couple years premature, see below.
I wouldn't say a couple years, but just until writable optical drives could be added.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtdunham
If anyone doesn't yet appreciate this difference, consider: I can hook my sony mini-DV camcorder to my f/w equipped MB and operate the camcorder from the computer. For capturing video, editing from segment-to-segment as you go, that's invaluable. It's really a loss i can't imagine how to replace (other than, of course, keeping my MB or buying a new MBP; in the first case apple loses a customer; in the second i lose (by gaining) 3/4 lb of light and lose (by gaining considerably on the footprint. (granted, add'l features, too, with the MBP; but for those for whom the MB would be just good enough--in fact, great--if it had sustained the f/w it already had in the prior iteration, that's a pretty painful difference, especially since the CPU speed doesn't increase and the price does). It's both a practical loss and a value equation loss. IMHO.
Given current economic circumstances, and with Apple's long tradition of adding features/reducing prices, i think the present example of reducing features and increasing prices is ill advised. I hope i'm wrong; as a consumer, i know i'm ill-served by the decisions.
They added a lot to the MB, while only removing a single port interface that goes unused by the vast majority of MB users. Something that will get less used since over half their customers are Switchers.
If you need to by a new Mac and must have FW, and you don't want the MBP for the reasons you mention above then their is no reason you can't buy a new $999 MacBook. They are quite capable machines and now $200 cheaper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wobegon
USB 2.0 ain't gonna last forever, we both agree on that.
USB will survive for the foreseeable future since USB3.0 will use the same port interface and be backwards compatible to USB2.0. The problem with FW400 is that the port interface was abandoned when they designed FW800, luckily FW3200 will use the same port interface as FW800 so I'd think that FW800 port will survive on future Macs.
Quote:
They've been promoting an alternate standard and the mass market has rejected it; Apple even helped by dropping syncing over Firewire on recent iPods and the iPhone from day one. All Firewire was doing was costing Apple money. I have to admit, it's sad to see a superior interface bite the dust, but I doubt this will be the last we see of custom Apple interfaces.
And now the new iPods and iPhone can't even charge over FW. I kept my old chargers and FW-30-pin iPod cables around because they charged so much faster than USB.
As for superior tech, this is fairly common in technology. Being vastly superior in one aspect doesn't mean it'll survive if it falls short in other areas. This includes pricing and marketing.
Quote:
Hah, look at Mini DisplayPort, for starters. Now even the MacBook Air can output to a 30" Cinema Display at full 2560x1600 resolution!
This is free, powerful, backwards compatible with HDMI, DL-DVI, offers HDCP, and is highly scalable. I think we'll see the entire industry moving to DP in record time and will maintain this tech for a long time.
Most Sony Notebooks have HDMI so you can easily plug the laptop to any HD Flat screen. Also the Vaio Z series (which is a 13.1 inch notebook) has a native 1600 by 900 screen res.
HDMI is good for that, since most modern TVs have HDMI, but how many people ever plug their notebooks into their TV so they can watch movies? Why not just have a dedicated Blu-ray player, rather than use a very expensive computer with a very expensive Blu-ray drive to do it? Note that there is no evidence of a 9.5mm Blu-ray drive actually existing on the market and the price for the 12.7mm drives are priced well above it would cost to by a Blu-ray appliance for you HDTV.
MacBook has almost everything, but Sony is leverage their edge with very attractive Blu-ray disc high definition notebooks. We will have to wait for Apple to do the same.
I'm getting pissed of with people who consider no blu-ray is a deal breaker. Why don't you conduct a world survey on ALL Apple consumers, that will they pay more for blu-ray or they are happy with the DVD offering.
I can bet with you that MOST people would rather keep DVD then using Blu-Ray.
Besides the implementation of blu-ray is so slow, even after the HD war that I'm not even sure how long the format will last, this is not the same as how DVD came along and replaces CD.
This is a nice product in keeping with Apple tradition... what I need is a coat pocket Mac with touch screen like the iPhone, full Mac OSX, no hard drive, WiFi + Blue Tooth, quad band GSM + EDGE + CDMA+ 3G for worldwide use with SIM for voice+data, no DVD/CD. No, I do not want it locked to a carrier or jailed to iTunes. USB Flash is so dirt cheap that if I want to watch a movie, I can rip from a few movies from a DVD to last during the trip. No keyboard.
This way, when I travel, in the US or outside, I do not have to carry a bulky laptop, bulky charger + adapter with wires, smartphone + charger+adapter with wires + car charger. Then if I do not want to get robbed by roaming charges, and $1-1.50/min I got to get a local phone + charger w/wires + car charger.
Apple certainly could charge top dollar... $1,500-2,000 or more would not be too bad for a hi end well designed product with function.
Firewire is not only essential for real audio and video work. It is also essential for trouble-free transfer of large amounts of data. And also to repair and troubleshoots Macs. And the lack of space is no argument at all. Even pendrives have Firewire:
Even on Apple Displays, the Firewire port is impotant. Mostly when you use computers like the Mac mini, with only a single Firewire port. BECAUSE WE BOOT FROM EXTERNAL DRIVES ALL THE TIME AND THUS CARRY ALL OUR DATA WITH US TO WORK AT WORK AND HOME.
Actually, the lack of Firewire has been the main reason why we have not purchased the MacBook Air for our University. A shame!
I don't know even know what to say. The vertical viewing angle is an atrocity. I felt like I was playing limbo with the thing in the Apple store, trying to crouch enough so that the screen looked all right.
Comments
[...] CD writers [...] weren't standard on MacBooks until a month ago.
Where are you getting that from?
Where are you getting that from?
Oops, my mistake.
obviously im not a video editor, but i like to know what makes it so different than over USB if you have the option? is it the speed?
Firewire has a dedicated controller that handles the traffic and therefor can handle data speedier and better.. USB on the other hand uses the main CPU for that..
Firewire can also be used in a same way SCSI can be used. you can attach a firewire cable to an (offline) computer and access the harddisk inside (and also boot from). it has presence in the backplane of some computing systems. Although this is not possible on windows machines as far as i know.
Apple should have kept a firewire 800 port on their new laptop series for the normal macbooks!!
this is stupid, "hey, if you still want to use your old camera, buy a $2000 laptop, we at apple are the best and should go back to windows if you don't like it.."
and then you ask yourself why apple has such a great cross-margin in their quarter results...
The MBP's are too expensive and consumer laptops nowdays start at $600 and almost offer the same tech specs, with firewire! Apple wake up!
Oops, my mistake.
Yeah, honest mistake. I used to think they were read-only drives as well.
Apple should have kept a firewire 800 port on their new laptop series for the normal macbooks.
The MBP's are way expensive and consumer laptops nowdays start at $600 and almost offer the same tech specs, with firewire!
The MacBooks (and the PowerPC iBooks before them) never shipped with FW 800, so it makes very little sense to expect Apple to introduce such a thing on their consumer laptops when FW 400 has obviously been a flop with the majority of those who buy MacBooks: students and Windows switchers who never used Firewire to begin with.
Of course there's always going to be a $600 piece of crap Windows laptop with a ton of ports, legacy and otherwise. Apple's clearly not interested in competing in that profitless market...because they're outpacing the industry 4 to 1 selling well made, future-forward, fairly minimalist premium computers.
The MacBooks (and the PowerPC iBooks before them) never shipped with FW 800, so it makes very little sense to expect Apple to introduce such a thing on their consumer laptops when FW 400 has obviously been a flop with the majority of those who buy MacBooks: students and Windows switchers who never used Firewire to begin with.
Of course there's always going to be a $600 piece of crap Windows laptop with a ton of ports, legacy and otherwise. Apple's clearly not interested in competing in that profitless market...because they're outpacing the industry 4 to 1 selling well made, future-forward, fairly minimalist premium computers.
I can agree to skip the old FW400, but why not promote FW800 in stead and still keep old (cons/semi/pro) users happy?
USB previously won because of the license fee involved with FW. This is their 2nd change
How else do you wanna enforce a popular computing standard to start with..
If you've spend thousands on hardware you need FW on your computer in order to use it.
2. Unlike USB, it supports isochronous connections - data (like video) can be streamed in real-time. This is pretty much essential for DV/MiniDV. I don't think USB could handle DV if it tried
If anyone doesn't yet appreciate this difference, consider: I can hook my sony mini-DV camcorder to my f/w equipped MB and operate the camcorder from the computer. For capturing video, editing from segment-to-segment as you go, that's invaluable. It's really a loss i can't imagine how to replace (other than, of course, keeping my MB or buying a new MBP; in the first case apple loses a customer; in the second i lose (by gaining) 3/4 lb of light and lose (by gaining considerably on the footprint. (granted, add'l features, too, with the MBP; but for those for whom the MB would be just good enough--in fact, great--if it had sustained the f/w it already had in the prior iteration, that's a pretty painful difference, especially since the CPU speed doesn't increase and the price does). It's both a practical loss and a value equation loss. IMHO.
Given current economic circumstances, and with Apple's long tradition of adding features/reducing prices, i think the present example of reducing features and increasing prices is ill advised. I hope i'm wrong; as a consumer, i know i'm ill-served by the decisions.
I can agree to skip the old FW400, but why not promote FW800 in stead and still keep old (cons/semi/pro) users happy?
USB previously won because of the license fee involved with FW. This is their 2nd change
How else do you wanna enforce a popular computing standard to start with..
Well, what's keeping Apple from swapping out something else in favor of FW 800 in a future MacBook? They very well could if they marketed FW 800 as something that would make sycing your iPhone or iPod way faster than USB 2.0. Remember, they dropped FW 800 on the original MacBook Pro and then brought it back in the next iteration. USB 2.0 ain't gonna last forever, we both agree on that. Perhaps Apple's working on a new standard. Regardless, at the moment it's clear they are done with FW 400 as it's advantage in speed, which is all any average consumer would care about, is now pretty much gone thanks to faster USB 2.0 on the new MacBooks.
They've been promoting an alternate standard and the mass market has rejected it; Apple even helped by dropping syncing over Firewire on recent iPods and the iPhone from day one. All Firewire was doing was costing Apple money. I have to admit, it's sad to see a superior interface bite the dust, but I doubt this will be the last we see of custom Apple interfaces.
Hah, look at Mini DisplayPort, for starters. Now even the MacBook Air can output to a 30" Cinema Display at full 2560x1600 resolution!
Even though Sony has Blu ray, their display is nowhere near HD capable (Even though they say HD supported). the 13.1 inch only supports 768 no 1080. Only the huge and heavy laptops supports HD resolution. Which is not comparable with the 13.3" macbook.
Most Sony Notebooks have HDMI so you can easily plug the laptop to any HD Flat screen. Also the Vaio Z series (which is a 13.1 inch blu ray capable notebook) has a native 1600 by 900 screen res.
On floppies, I think it was a couple years premature, see below.
I wouldn't say a couple years, but just until writable optical drives could be added.
If anyone doesn't yet appreciate this difference, consider: I can hook my sony mini-DV camcorder to my f/w equipped MB and operate the camcorder from the computer. For capturing video, editing from segment-to-segment as you go, that's invaluable. It's really a loss i can't imagine how to replace (other than, of course, keeping my MB or buying a new MBP; in the first case apple loses a customer; in the second i lose (by gaining) 3/4 lb of light and lose (by gaining considerably on the footprint. (granted, add'l features, too, with the MBP; but for those for whom the MB would be just good enough--in fact, great--if it had sustained the f/w it already had in the prior iteration, that's a pretty painful difference, especially since the CPU speed doesn't increase and the price does). It's both a practical loss and a value equation loss. IMHO.
Given current economic circumstances, and with Apple's long tradition of adding features/reducing prices, i think the present example of reducing features and increasing prices is ill advised. I hope i'm wrong; as a consumer, i know i'm ill-served by the decisions.
They added a lot to the MB, while only removing a single port interface that goes unused by the vast majority of MB users. Something that will get less used since over half their customers are Switchers.
If you need to by a new Mac and must have FW, and you don't want the MBP for the reasons you mention above then their is no reason you can't buy a new $999 MacBook. They are quite capable machines and now $200 cheaper.
USB 2.0 ain't gonna last forever, we both agree on that.
USB will survive for the foreseeable future since USB3.0 will use the same port interface and be backwards compatible to USB2.0. The problem with FW400 is that the port interface was abandoned when they designed FW800, luckily FW3200 will use the same port interface as FW800 so I'd think that FW800 port will survive on future Macs.
They've been promoting an alternate standard and the mass market has rejected it; Apple even helped by dropping syncing over Firewire on recent iPods and the iPhone from day one. All Firewire was doing was costing Apple money. I have to admit, it's sad to see a superior interface bite the dust, but I doubt this will be the last we see of custom Apple interfaces.
And now the new iPods and iPhone can't even charge over FW. I kept my old chargers and FW-30-pin iPod cables around because they charged so much faster than USB.
As for superior tech, this is fairly common in technology. Being vastly superior in one aspect doesn't mean it'll survive if it falls short in other areas. This includes pricing and marketing.
Hah, look at Mini DisplayPort, for starters. Now even the MacBook Air can output to a 30" Cinema Display at full 2560x1600 resolution!
This is free, powerful, backwards compatible with HDMI, DL-DVI, offers HDCP, and is highly scalable. I think we'll see the entire industry moving to DP in record time and will maintain this tech for a long time.
Most Sony Notebooks have HDMI so you can easily plug the laptop to any HD Flat screen. Also the Vaio Z series (which is a 13.1 inch notebook) has a native 1600 by 900 screen res.
HDMI is good for that, since most modern TVs have HDMI, but how many people ever plug their notebooks into their TV so they can watch movies? Why not just have a dedicated Blu-ray player, rather than use a very expensive computer with a very expensive Blu-ray drive to do it? Note that there is no evidence of a 9.5mm Blu-ray drive actually existing on the market and the price for the 12.7mm drives are priced well above it would cost to by a Blu-ray appliance for you HDTV.
MacBook has almost everything, but Sony is leverage their edge with very attractive Blu-ray disc high definition notebooks. We will have to wait for Apple to do the same.
I'm getting pissed of with people who consider no blu-ray is a deal breaker. Why don't you conduct a world survey on ALL Apple consumers, that will they pay more for blu-ray or they are happy with the DVD offering.
I can bet with you that MOST people would rather keep DVD then using Blu-Ray.
Besides the implementation of blu-ray is so slow, even after the HD war that I'm not even sure how long the format will last, this is not the same as how DVD came along and replaces CD.
I don't remember seeing that particular one before?
This way, when I travel, in the US or outside, I do not have to carry a bulky laptop, bulky charger + adapter with wires, smartphone + charger+adapter with wires + car charger. Then if I do not want to get robbed by roaming charges, and $1-1.50/min I got to get a local phone + charger w/wires + car charger.
Apple certainly could charge top dollar... $1,500-2,000 or more would not be too bad for a hi end well designed product with function.
Cool desktop picture – is that a new one supplied with the MacBook?
I don't remember seeing that particular one before?
I can't find that image on my unibody MB.
The DVI adapter is over 100 US dollars in Japan. If you need it get it, I do not.
Firewire is not only essential for real audio and video work. It is also essential for trouble-free transfer of large amounts of data. And also to repair and troubleshoots Macs. And the lack of space is no argument at all. Even pendrives have Firewire:
Kanguru Fire Flash
http://www.kanguru.com/fireflash.html
Even on Apple Displays, the Firewire port is impotant. Mostly when you use computers like the Mac mini, with only a single Firewire port. BECAUSE WE BOOT FROM EXTERNAL DRIVES ALL THE TIME AND THUS CARRY ALL OUR DATA WITH US TO WORK AT WORK AND HOME.
Actually, the lack of Firewire has been the main reason why we have not purchased the MacBook Air for our University. A shame!
I don't know even know what to say. The vertical viewing angle is an atrocity. I felt like I was playing limbo with the thing in the Apple store, trying to crouch enough so that the screen looked all right.