New Intel Xeons offer upgrade path for Mac Pro in early 2009

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
Intel during the first quarter of next year will introduce a total of 13 new Nehalem-based Xeon chips, at least two of which are likely to turn up in a long-awaited upgrade to Apple's Mac Pro workstations.



Among them will be ten processors belonging the Xeon 5500 series, which appears to represent the chipmakers "Gainestown" series, or the successor to the current quad-core 45-nm Xeon Harpertown series employed by Apple's existing 2.8GHz, 3.0GHz, and 3.2GHz Mac Pros (which include two of the quad-core chips for a total of eight cores).



Only nine of the Xeon 5500 series chips are quad-core, and only five appear as if they could find their way into a next-generation Mac Pro, namely the 3.2GHz W5580 ($1,600), 2.93GHz X5570 ($1,386), 2.8GHz X5560 ($1,172), 2.66GHz X5550 ($958), and 2.53GHz E5540 ($744).



Speculation over precisely which models Apple could adopt is complicated by a dearth of public information on the new parts, as well as the prices for the new chips published Thursday by DigiTimes, which make them much more expensive than Harpertown chips at identical clock frequencies.



The existing Mac Pros are believed to use Intel's 2.8GHz E5462, 3.0GHz X5472, and 3.2GHz X5482 Harpertown Xeons, which were priced $797, $958, and $1279 respectively, in lots of 1000 when they were introduced last fall.



Gainestown is effectively believed to be an Intel Core i7-based chip, which would see integration of an on-die memory controller and the replacement of the Front Side Bus with Intel's QuickPath point-to-point processor interconnect.



The chips used in Apple's existing Mac Pros with their price when purchased in lots of 1000.



Chips that could potentially fuel an upgrade to the Mac Pro (middle 3 most likely) with prices when purchased in lots of 1000.



In addition to the 5 chips mentioned above, Intel also plans to announce 2.4GHz, 2.26GHz, 2.13GHz, and 2GHz quad-core Xeon 5500 series chips, an undetermined dual-core chip, and three undetermined Xeon 3500 series chips.



[Editor's note: updated with charts.]
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 91
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    The Mac Pro price will have to be raised if they still intend to use 2x Quad-core Xeons at equivalent speeds. They could make changes to reduce the cost, but I doubt they will for the flagship Mac desktop.



    I hate to say this, but this price hike in the Xeons does afford Apple the option of offering a smaller Mac desktop with only 1 Xeon at a price that is between $1,300 and $2,000.
  • Reply 2 of 91
    bageljoeybageljoey Posts: 2,004member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    Gainestown is effectively believed to be an Intel Core i7-based chip, which would see integration of an on-die memory controller and the replacement of the Front Side Bus with Intel's QuickPath point-to-point processor interconnect.




    If this is the only change (other than the price going up) what kind of benefit is there.



    I haven't been paying close attention to the roadmaps lately, and I am curious as to what the buyer would get for their hundred$.
  • Reply 3 of 91
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post


    If this is the only change (other than the price going up) what kind of benefit is there.



    I haven't been paying close attention to the roadmaps lately, and I am curious as to what the buyer would get for their hundred$.



    Here is some detailed info...
  • Reply 4 of 91
    This is getting ridiculous. The Powermac G5 top of the line had a $3000 sticker price. This time, the processors alone will cost more than that. I hope they would use lower speeds to build a cheaper Mac Pro. Eight 2GHz cores ain't nothing to sniff at.



    /Adrian
  • Reply 5 of 91
    Please show the pros you still care Apple, please, please, please. A beefy update to FCS at NAB would be just swell, too. Super swell. I cannot express the level of swellness that would be felt by many in this industry. Giant amounts of swell.
  • Reply 6 of 91
    One consideration beyond the fact that Apple seems to get better pricing than 1000s, is that the new chips will greatly simplify the northbridge as the memory controller is now on the CPU die. As to whether this offsets the additional cost is indeterminate at this point. The other consideration would be that the recent batch of Nehalem benchmarks show it outperforming a octal configuration in some instances. In a roundabout way, that would make these half as expensive. (I said roundabout).
  • Reply 7 of 91
    i386i386 Posts: 91member
    I can't see them hiking the price up, it's not going to happen. Maybe the so called 6 core Xeon (Dunnington) and a new graphic boards might be on offer. A 9 series Nvidia.
  • Reply 8 of 91
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    I'm not familiar with all these prices and model numbers.



    The Three Xenon chips that have been making the rounds are the i7 965 Extreme 3.2 GHz at $999, the 940 2.93 GHz at $562, and the 920 2.66 GHz at $284.



    Intel does make the mobo's, one of which is the DX58SO.



    I wonder if these are actually the "chipset" chip numbers (which is now just one chip). But where the pricing came from I can't imagine when compared to the other prices for those model numbers.
  • Reply 9 of 91
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by i386 View Post


    I can't see them hiking the price up, it's not going to happen. Maybe the so called 6 core Xeon (Dunnington) and a new graphic boards might be on offer. A 9 series Nvidia.



    Nope. Dunnington is a MP processor with a price north of $2000 per. I'm guessing we'll see either Nvidia Geforce GTX 200 series or AMD Radeon HD 4800 series.



    /Adrian
  • Reply 10 of 91
    mjteixmjteix Posts: 563member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by i386 View Post


    I can't see them hiking the price up, it's not going to happen. Maybe the so called 6 core Xeon (Dunnington) and a new graphic boards might be on offer. A 9 series Nvidia.



    Dunnington are MP cpus usually work in quartet, those 6 cores are even more expensive than the future nehalem Xeons (up to $2729 each)



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I'm not familiar with all these prices and model numbers.



    The Three Xenon chips that have been making the rounds are the i7 965 Extreme 3.2 GHz at $999, the 940 2.93 GHz at $562, and the 920 2.66 GHz at $284.



    Intel does make the mobo's, one of which is the DX58SO.



    I wonder if these are actually the "chipset" chip numbers (which is now just one chip). But where the pricing came from I can't imagine when compared to the other prices for those model numbers.



    Not Xenon chips, the Core i7 900 series are high-end desktop cpus, they work with the X58 chipset. The Xeon 3500 series are the equivalent for the uni-processore servers. Both work only in solo (no dual-cpu configurations).



    The Xeon 5500 are made to work in dual-cpu configurations, they have 2 QPI links (one for the chipset, one for the other cpu), that's why they are much more expensive than the Core i7 900 series or the 3500 series at the same clock.



    Most of the nehalem motherbaord will still have a 2-chip chipset, since the new I/O hub will only have PCIe lanes and QPI links, a standard ICH chip will be used of the other things like USB/SATA/Legacy ports and more PCIe lanes.







    Upper-right corner, probably the next dual-cpu Mac Pro

    Lower-left corner, probably the never released xMac



    Sorry for the big image.
  • Reply 11 of 91
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mjteix View Post


    Dunnington are MP cpus usually work in quartet, those 6 cores are even more expensive than the future nehalem Xeons (up to $2729 each)







    Not Xenon chips, the Core i7 900 series are high-end desktop cpus, they work with the X58 chipset. The Xeon 3500 series are the equivalent for the uni-processore servers. Both work only in solo (no dual-cpu configurations).



    The Xeon 5500 are made to work in dual-cpu configurations, they have 2 QPI links (one for the chipset, one for the other cpu), that's why they are much more expensive than the Core i7 900 series or the 3500 series at the same clock.



    Most of the nehalem motherbaord will still have a 2-chip chipset, since the new I/O hub will only have PCIe lanes and QPI links, a standard ICH chip will be used of the other things like USB/SATA/Legacy ports and more PCIe lanes.





    Upper-right corner, probably the next dual-cpu Mac Pro

    Lower-left corner, probably the never released xMac



    Sorry for the big image.



    That looks about right.



    Interesting then that the testing is not being done on the Xeons which are supposed to be the first out, this month, where all desktop parts aren't due to the late first quarter, or the second. That's why I assumed they were in fact Xeons.
  • Reply 12 of 91
    Given the confusion of remarks in the original article, can someone "in the know" speak to whether or not these chips will be suitable for upgrades to existing MacPros? The article author uses the word "upgrade" in several conflicting and unique ways that tend to add to the confusion of all the acronyms and numbers.



    Conversely, could AppleInsider perhaps wait until you have more time to write a legible article next time instead of rushing to press with a lot of garbled confusion? I'd like to see a presentation along the lines of:



    - these are the new chips, speeds, and prices

    - they will likely be used in these upcoming Macs (models, prices)

    - they could conceivably be used to upgrade these existing Mac machines (models, years)



    I mean how hard is that? There must be someone here that took writing in grade 8 or something.
  • Reply 13 of 91
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post


    Given the confusion of remarks in the original article, can someone "in the know" speak to whether or not these chips will be suitable for upgrades to existing MacPros? The article author uses the word "upgrade" in several conflicting and unique ways that tend to add to the confusion of all the acronyms and numbers.



    Conversely, could AppleInsider perhaps wait until you have more time to write a legible article next time instead of rushing to press with a lot of garbled confusion? I'd like to see a presentation along the lines of:



    - these are the new chips, speeds, and prices

    - they will likely be used in these upcoming Macs (models, prices)

    - they could conceivably be used to upgrade these existing Mac machines (models, years)



    I mean how hard is that? There must be someone here that took writing in grade 8 or something.



    No, they will not. They require a new socket because of the on-die memory controller, which now uses 1366 pins. Also, having an additional mem controller on the mobo wouldn't be the best idea.



    But, next years 32 nm "tick" will be a drop-in replacement for these.
  • Reply 14 of 91
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pixelcruncher View Post


    Please show the pros you still care Apple, please, please, please. A beefy update to FCS at NAB would be just swell, too. Super swell. I cannot express the level of swellness that would be felt by many in this industry. Giant amounts of swell.



    If they hold to pattern, I would expect Final Cut Studio 3 at NAB09, it has been given a major update every other year, and announced on the week of NAB. And it might justify a NAB booth. This year being the "off" year, I guess it didn't make sense to have an expensive booth to show off last year's product.
  • Reply 15 of 91
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I'm not familiar with all these prices and model numbers.



    The Three Xenon chips that have been making the rounds are the i7 965 Extreme 3.2 GHz at $999, the 940 2.93 GHz at $562, and the 920 2.66 GHz at $284.



    Intel does make the mobo's, one of which is the DX58SO.



    I wonder if these are actually the "chipset" chip numbers (which is now just one chip). But where the pricing came from I can't imagine when compared to the other prices for those model numbers.



    Xenon is the XBox 360's CPU. And i7 is desktop, not server/workstation (Xeon). Don't get confused, Mel, if you get confused everyone else will.



    The chipset is the X58. There's a version of it that only supports one CPU (for the i7), and a version for dual-socket systems.
  • Reply 16 of 91
    kasperkasper Posts: 941member, administrator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post


    Given the confusion of remarks in the original article, can someone "in the know" speak to whether or not these chips will be suitable for upgrades to existing MacPros? The article author uses the word "upgrade" in several conflicting and unique ways that tend to add to the confusion of all the acronyms and numbers.



    Conversely, could AppleInsider perhaps wait until you have more time to write a legible article next time instead of rushing to press with a lot of garbled confusion? I'd like to see a presentation along the lines of:



    - these are the new chips, speeds, and prices

    - they will likely be used in these upcoming Macs (models, prices)

    - they could conceivably be used to upgrade these existing Mac machines (models, years)



    I mean how hard is that? There must be someone here that took writing in grade 8 or something.



    Virgil,



    What exactly is wrong with the article? We spent a few hours sorting out all the chips for the article and tracking down the specs -- which is more than anyone else has done. There's not much information available on these parts and almost none of it is intended to be public just yet, so I'm not sure what more you could be looking for at this stage in the game...



    In terms of a consumer/pro machine, these chips would most likely only be destine for a Mac Pro. We outlined the chips used in the current Mac Pro and the candidates that could go in the next version. We listed the 3 month time period. We paired the chips with what I believe is their appropriate code-name, and some commenters helped fill in some of the other pieces with information we didn't have at our disposal at the time.



    - these are the new chips, speeds, and prices



    We published all the applicable chips with their speeds and prices. I personally added charts to make them all more legible.



    - they will likely be used in these upcoming Macs (models, prices)



    We said the chips discussed in the article are suited to succeed the chips in the current Mac Pro (Early 2008). Since none of our staff are members of Apple's executive branch, we're unable to provide the exact prices Apple plans to charge for these yet uncompleted systems 4 months in advance.



    - they could conceivably be used to upgrade these existing Mac machines (models, years)



    Again, we said they are suited to succeed the chips in the current Mac Pro, which would place them inside computers that would likely be called Mac Pros (Early 2009).





    Better?



    K
  • Reply 17 of 91
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    That looks about right.



    Interesting then that the testing is not being done on the Xeons which are supposed to be the first out, this month, where all desktop parts aren't due to the late first quarter, or the second. That's why I assumed they were in fact Xeons.



    The only different between the Core i7 Bloomfield and xeon 5500 gainestown is the that gainestown has a second quickpath connection. Performance should be pretty much identical. The Xeons are going to be released after the the Core i7.
  • Reply 18 of 91
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post


    The Xeons are going to be released after the the Core i7.



    With the increased cost of the Xeons, would Apple go with i7s for the Mac Pro, which superficially looks like it could increase performance while lowering the cost of the machine.


    PS: The main AI article has been updated with charts.
  • Reply 19 of 91
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    With the increased cost of the Xeons, would Apple go with i7s for the Mac Pro, which superficially looks like it could increase performance while lowering the cost of the machine.



    I doubt it. Who knows what prices Apple pays for processors, anyway?
  • Reply 20 of 91
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post


    I doubt it. Who knows what prices Apple pays for processors, anyway?



    Regardless what they actually pay in relation to the per 1000 unit cost, we should assume that Intel is charging Apple about the same percentage on that per 1000 unit cost.
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