Windows 7 - Are/Should Apple Worry?

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
Honestly, Windows 7 is good. Properly the Best Window that have ever been released. ( If beta is any indication and they dont mess it up in the end )



Installation was quick and surprisingly simple. Most hardware were detected straight after installation. Others ( 1 Devices ) were installed after Windows Update. A smooth experience compare to Vista.



Installed Vista Codec Pack, The Perian on Windows. EVERY Video Files i had in my HDD plays perfectly inside WMP12 ( Windows Media Player 12, for those who dont know ). And there are a lot of internet video encoded differently.



UAC was no longer as annoying as hell.



Firefox 3 works perfectly.



Many UI changes, it is more Mac like, not as elegant and simple as Mac OSX. But It is many steps in right direction.



All Games, and TV Card works ( Which Mac OSX is SERVERELY Lacking ).



It looks like Apple has woken up the sleeping Giant.



Will Snow Leopard be enough for Apple?
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 45
    Thanks Mr. Gates . I will give it a look .
  • Reply 2 of 45
    Have Microsoft fixed the underlying engineering problems that cause so much grief to Windows users?



    Have they fixed the Registry? Or will it cruft-up over time and need a re-install.



    Do you have to chose between 64 bit or 32 bit versions? Or is there a single unified choice that runs everything?



    If you chose 64, can you upgrade a 32 bit Windows to a 64 bit Windows?



    Can you re-install Windows but keep all your user data, settings and installed applications?



    --



    Windows relies on some really old, really bad engineering. Microsoft's engineers are smart enough to fix that stuff, but are not allowed to. Because fixing the registry would break a lot of old software.



    We don't need a bunch of fancy new features, and eye candy. We need more reliable systems that work more often and break less often. To deliver that, engineers have to go down into the basement and fix the foundations, not up on the roof, adding fancy lights.



    I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.



    C.
  • Reply 3 of 45
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ksec View Post




    All Games, and TV Card works ( Which Mac OSX is SERVERELY Lacking ).



    It looks like Apple has woken up the sleeping Giant.



    Will Snow Leopard be enough for Apple?



    Which is why we have Bootcamp.



    Of course Snow Leopard won't be enough. It's a relatively feature less OS, one that

    paves the road for "future" advancement. Right now things couldn't be better for Apple

    the economy has stunted computer sales so this next year doesn't appear to be a barn burner for computer sales. The economy should rebound hopefully late '09 into '10 and I expect that we'll see 10.7 late '10. That's the OS you're looking for. Hyping Snow Leopard is simply going to be an exercise in frustration. It's going to look just like Leopard making it anti-climatic it'll perform like a new animal but those with Quad Core and up will likely be the only ones to perceive much benefit.
  • Reply 4 of 45
    irelandireland Posts: 17,798member
    Snow Leopard = multi-touch. I won't say it again.
  • Reply 5 of 45
    taurontauron Posts: 911member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ksec View Post


    Honestly, Windows 7 is good. Properly the Best Window that have ever been released. ( If beta is any indication and they dont mess it up in the end )



    Installation was quick and surprisingly simple. Most hardware were detected straight after installation. Others ( 1 Devices ) were installed after Windows Update. A smooth experience compare to Vista.



    Installed Vista Codec Pack, The Perian on Windows. EVERY Video Files i had in my HDD plays perfectly inside WMP12 ( Windows Media Player 12, for those who dont know ). And there are a lot of internet video encoded differently.



    UAC was no longer as annoying as hell.



    Firefox 3 works perfectly.



    Many UI changes, it is more Mac like, not as elegant and simple as Mac OSX. But It is many steps in right direction.



    All Games, and TV Card works ( Which Mac OSX is SERVERELY Lacking ).



    It looks like Apple has woken up the sleeping Giant.



    Will Snow Leopard be enough for Apple?



    All you said is that Windows 7 is better than Vista because it is more Leopard-like. Brilliant. Why settle for the original when the immitation does such a good job of looking alike?
  • Reply 6 of 45
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tauron View Post


    All you said is that Windows 7 is better than Vista because it is more Leopard-like. Brilliant. Why settle for the original when the immitation does such a good job of looking alike?



    Unfortunately the company that makes that makes the original now thinks it can tell you what computer you're buying what tasks you should be doing with it.
  • Reply 7 of 45
    ksecksec Posts: 1,569member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tauron View Post


    All you said is that Windows 7 is better than Vista because it is more Leopard-like. Brilliant. Why settle for the original when the immitation does such a good job of looking alike?



    No, it didn't get rid of registry. And no to all those technical problems.

    64 Bit and 32 Bit isn't much of a problem. People who buy new Computer from Dell or HP will all come with 64Bit as Default for Windows 7.



    It isn't about what is technically good. Windows 7 has been running smooth, despite all the old problem described. And you can run all the old games and software.



    The major problem is, Are the current sales of Apple based on Apple 's Design of Mac. Or was it primarily driven by Mac OSX?
  • Reply 8 of 45
    taurontauron Posts: 911member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ksec View Post


    No, it didn't get rid of registry. And no to all those technical problems.

    64 Bit and 32 Bit isn't much of a problem. People who buy new Computer from Dell or HP will all come with 64Bit as Default for Windows 7.



    It isn't about what is technically good. Windows 7 has been running smooth, despite all the old problem described. And you can run all the old games and software.



    The major problem is, Are the current sales of Apple based on Apple 's Design of Mac. Or was it primarily driven by Mac OSX?



    That much is obvious. Windows 7 has to throw away all the previous windows garbageware, which is all of it, and start from zero. Will Microsoft do it? Of course not. It can't, it controls 95% of the market. So it will continue to release steaming piles of shit for OS until Macintosh starts to be a serious threat. If marketshare becomes 50%/50% then MS may shit their pants and start from scratch. But then it will be too late for them to catch up. It will be hard to write a good OS when they have put out ridiculous pieces of shit for over 20 years.
  • Reply 9 of 45
    I really don't think Windows 7 is going to pose any threat on Apple.



    No matter how much Microsoft does to improve Windows, it's still Windows NT at the core of the OS. It doesn't do UNIX stuffs and will always have 3rd-party driver issues.



    Also, from everything I've heard, fonts of non-European languages still look like a piece of junk on the OS, and the machines that bundle Windows 7 will never look as beautiful and elegant as the Macs we have.



    Besides, who would want an OS that has 2 different versions, and 6 different editions in each of the version. I still remember how many times I had to call that company in Redmond to activate my copy of Windows on a ThinkPad, because they don't allow OEM licenses, which I've paid for already, to be installed without using the recovery disks provided by Lenovo. I just simply don't want an OS that stops working when somebody's activation server goes down on the cloud.



    I'll say people who really want an Apple will just stay with Apple, unless they fail to get the next big cat out of the gate before the end of 2009.
  • Reply 10 of 45
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tauron View Post


    That much is obvious. Windows 7 has to throw away all the previous windows garbageware, which is all of it, and start from zero. Will Microsoft do it? Of course not. It can't, it controls 95% of the market. So it will continue to release steaming piles of shit for OS until Macintosh starts to be a serious threat. If marketshare becomes 50%/50% then MS may shit their pants and start from scratch. But then it will be too late for them to catch up. It will be hard to write a good OS when they have put out ridiculous pieces of shit for over 20 years.



    50% is definitely obtainable by Mac OS X, but not by one company, especially with Apple's one size fits all approach. Windows 7 doesn't have to be better than OS X, it just has to be more tolerable than Apple's own eccentricities to hang on to what it has and maybe even bring a few people back.
  • Reply 11 of 45
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ksec View Post


    Windows 7 has been running smooth, despite all the old problem described.



    Windows has always worked fine in the first few weeks. It's what happens after six months that matters. The cruft sets in and you end up with a computer you can not trust. Lock ups and slow downs become more commonplace. Re-installation becomes the only option. And re-installation under Windows is a big deal.



    MS could implement a better solution. Create an elegant modern OS which ring-fences the system and produces a reliable experience. Getting rid of the registry would be a start. Keeping apps away from the system would be another good move.



    The trick would be to do this AND provide backwards compatibility.



    MS could do that by using virtualization technology. But such a move would take time. Windows 7 is a fast attempt to salvage the Vista train-wreck.



    C.
  • Reply 12 of 45
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,419member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ksec View Post


    The major problem is, Are the current sales of Apple based on Apple 's Design of Mac. Or was it primarily driven by Mac OSX?



    Apple's sales have always been based on the OS. It's their "license to print money"

    Windows being the dominant OS will always a huge base but they'll also always have the problems that come from this (virus, trojans, etc)





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    Windows has always worked fine in the first few weeks. It's what happens after six months that matters. The cruft sets in and you end up with a computer you can not trust. Lock ups and slow downs become more commonplace. Re-installation becomes the only option. And re-installation under Windows is a big deal.



    C.



    That's the God's honest truth there. PC always run fine when they're new. But as the apps and cruft build up they implode. I was worried about my Mac and OS X succumbing to the same but I've installed and un-installed so many apps and it still runs fine. I don't run virus apps that suck a percentage of my cpu power either.



    Windows 7 would have to offer me a lot to leave OS X.
  • Reply 13 of 45
    Windows 7 is going to be sold with ~90% of the (non-business) computers made in the next five years. Just like previous versions of Windows, going back over 15 years.



    Snow Leopard will be sold with every computer Apple makes, and surreptitiously installed on a few Apple doesn't make.



    Nothing will change except a percentage point or two.
  • Reply 14 of 45
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    I was worried about my Mac and OS X succumbing to the same but I've installed and un-installed so many apps and it still runs fine.



    I bought my first Mac about 5 years ago. A G4 Powerbook.



    What is crazy is that I am still running the same system. Except 5 years later, I am now running a MacPro. 1 complete change of hardware and 3 major software revisions. But it still *feels* like the exact same system.



    I never had to re-install apps. I made a transition from PowerPC to Intel and never saw the join. I made a transition from 32-bit to 64-bit and never noticed.



    Microsoft don't follow these rules.



    C.
  • Reply 15 of 45
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    I bought my first Mac about 5 years ago. A G4 Powerbook.



    What is crazy is that I am still running the same system. Except 5 years later, I am now running a MacPro. 1 complete change of hardware and 3 major software revisions. But it still *feels* like the exact same system.



    I never had to re-install apps. I made a transition from PowerPC to Intel and never saw the join. I made a transition from 32-bit to 64-bit and never noticed.



    Microsoft don't follow these rules.



    C.



    and yet they still have a 90% marketshare...??



    who's the mug??





    seriously what a wacky thread title, wrong way round.
  • Reply 16 of 45
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post


    and yet they still have a 90% marketshare...??



    who's the mug??



    seriously what a wacky thread title, wrong way round.



    Microsoft's engineering sucks *because* they have such a large marketshare.



    Their success means they are not motivated to change. It makes them complacent and also makes them reluctant to make radical changes that might upset so many users.



    If Microsoft woke up to found its market share dramatically reduced, it might decide to do something to improve the product. Which is, of course, exactly what has happened with Windows Mobile.



    C.



    When MS are behind, they can produce some pretty good products.
  • Reply 17 of 45
    The question here isn't "can it beat Mac OS", but more the classic "is it just good enough to stem the tide"? The answer with Vista was a resounding NO. Consumers have rejected Vista handily, and businesses even more so.



    However, based on this beta, I think Windows 7 may just be good enough to stop the exodus from Windows to Mac in the consumer realm, or to UNIX-like systems in the business world.



    It's a shame, really, that Windows 7 brings nothing really new or innovative to personal computing. In many respects, Win7:Vista :: Snow Leopard:Leopard. Just that Leopard wasn't a disaster from day one, which Vista has been. Microsoft's own television commercials are all the evidence we need to conclude that Redmond is extremely worried about Vista's perception.



    What Windows *really* needs to do is cut the cord and create a new system from scratch, like Mac OS X did. (Well, arguably Mac OS X is a port of NeXTstep with a glossy GUI and new APIs.) The difference here is that Mac OS X is far more modular than Windows, and thus easier to modify without breaking critical dependencies for legacy applications. Windows needs to evolve into a next-generation platform, and simply leverage VM technology to run legacy software. Mac OS X did this 8 years ago. Vista tries to support old legacy interfaces in combination with new capabilities, but in the end, it does neither very well because of it.



    I think if Microsoft were to run legacy apps in VM sessions on a brand-new platform, they could create something really spectacular. And that would benefit us all, because Apple needs competition to stay innovative.
  • Reply 18 of 45
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    Windows has always worked fine in the first few weeks. It's what happens after six months that matters. The cruft sets in and you end up with a computer you can not trust. Lock ups and slow downs become more commonplace. Re-installation becomes the only option. And re-installation under Windows is a big deal.



    Amen to that.



    I spent some time working for a monopoly (not MS or even in the same industry), and when the barriers to entry into the market start to fall, as they are starting to do in the PC space, the monopoly has to completely re-invent itself, or die. In order for MS to make a good Windows, they'd need to lay-off everyone from middle management on-up, get a new board, and completely redefine their corporate culture. This is very hard to do. In fact, I'm not sure it has ever been done.
  • Reply 19 of 45
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    Windows has always worked fine in the first few weeks. It's what happens after six months that matters. The cruft sets in and you end up with a computer you can not trust. Lock ups and slow downs become more commonplace. Re-installation becomes the only option. And re-installation under Windows is a big deal.



    My copy of Vista Premium is running problems free and just as quick and responsive as the day I installed it earlier in 2008. I've done a massive amount of installs and uninstalls of apps, games, and dev tools.



    I don't bother running visus protection. I've run scans a couple of times just for fun that have come up empty.



    Haven't had a single system crash or failure.



    Win 7 looks like a nice upgrade from the solid base Microsoft now has with the enormous work they put into making Vista so solid.
  • Reply 20 of 45
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WaitNextEvent View Post


    My copy of Vista Premium is running problems free and just as quick and responsive as the day I installed it earlier in 2008. I've done a massive amount of installs and uninstalls of apps, games, and dev tools.



    I don't bother running visus protection. I've run scans a couple of times just for fun that have come up empty.



    Haven't had a single system crash or failure.



    Win 7 looks like a nice upgrade from the solid base Microsoft now has with the enormous work they put into making Vista so solid.



    It is hard to explain to some Mac users that Vista is much more bad publicity than bad OS. In fact is it the best desktop OS (and server OS, considering that Server 2008 is sharing genes with Vista) made by Microsoft so far. Period.



    Yeah, I have Vista on 3 computers, oldest 14 months old, newest 3 months old. They have all got their fair share of software installations and un-installations, both commercial and freware stuff. I haven't noticed any difference in OS and applications start-up times or system responsiveness.



    Now, in all the fairness, I must say that I did decide to run registry cleaner after using my oldest Vista machine for a year. And it did find handful of various orphans, non-existent file formats etc... usual registry garbage. I did measure time of Vista boot before and after cleaning registry, and difference was negligible.



    So... what gives? After 5 years of using Vista the way I do (and I do install and remove programs much more frequently than average user), all the registry crap would add a second or two to Vista's boot time. Is it really significant? I don't think so. Am I going to use same machine long enough for difference to became noticeable? Nope.



    Sure, I'd like MS do turn a clean sheet and do OS from the scratch; there's a lot of ancient technology that burdens Windows. Unfortunately majority of Windows market - business - requires that. Even at it's release, Vista had less compatibility issues than some of MacOS revisions had compared to their ancestors; yet it received criticism none MacOS ever did.



    As it is, Windows is hostage of it's own success. Being so scrutinized and facing such rigid demands from big users, Windows have very limited space to grow. I'm also hoping virtualization will give MS means to get rid of old standars it is riddled with... but it is not going to happen with W7. Much as I can see, W7 is to Vista the same thing XP was to Windows 2000; OS based on same technology, with some improvements and clean sheet publicity wise. Vista (and 2000) were cannon fodders, thrown in front of customers to introduce some changes - and die trying to do that. XP and W7 were/are forces prepared to enter the game later on, when the dust settles a bit, and present themselves as "liberators", not being tied with their ancestors' spoiled image.
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