Apple fires its return salvo as Microsoft issues misleading 5th ad

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  • Reply 21 of 320
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by imapcandmac View Post


    It is funny to see Apple feel the need to respond to the Microsoft ads. I would think Apple would be above this if they were not worried about the ads.



    Nah, I think Apple is just tweaking MSFT's nose, and using no more than the same theme they've been using since 2006. MSFT just gave them lots of new material to work with, that's all.
  • Reply 22 of 320
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kibitzer View Post


    Don't be surprised. GM today. Microsoft tomorrow.



    I think you're on to something.
  • Reply 23 of 320
    jpellinojpellino Posts: 697member
    [QUOTE=imapcandmac;1417497]
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post




    I have scanned occasionally (with free software) but do not run real time scanning. I also have a hardware firewall built into my Linksys Access Point.



    A Linksys AP with a "hardware firewall"? Huh. Linksys APs do have MAC address filtering, which as far as security goes, you should "avoid as if it were a swarm of angry bees". Perhaps you really have a router and therefore a some firewall features.
  • Reply 24 of 320
    dagamer34dagamer34 Posts: 494member
    Ads like this shouldn't just be focusing on the price. Let's face it, with Apple, you pay more to get more. Simple as that. Any Mac you buy lets you take it to an Apple store for real human service to help you with your problem. Other companies don't do that (regardless of the amount you spent on your computer).



    Let's not be naive, you cannot trade quality and performance and expect to pay nothing. That's living in a fairytale land. And Apple is NOT marketing for the lowest common denominator. That's why you haven't seen them in the netbook market. But they build a product that they are happy with so that consumers will be happy with it as well. If a tech-oriented consumer can provide tech support for themselves, then a PC is probably better for them anyway (cost-wise). But again, that's NOT most people (as seen my tech geeks getting many many calls from family members wanting their PCs fixed).
  • Reply 25 of 320
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post


    Ads like this shouldn't just be focusing on the price. Let's face it, with Apple, you pay more to get more. Simple as that. Any Mac you buy lets you take it to an Apple store for real human service to help you with your problem. Other companies don't do that (regardless of the amount you spent on your computer).



    Let's not be naive, you cannot trade quality and performance and expect to pay nothing. That's living in a fairytale land. And Apple is NOT marketing for the lowest common denominator. That's why you haven't seen them in the netbook market. But they build a product that they are happy with so that consumers will be happy with it as well. If a tech-oriented consumer can provide tech support for themselves, then a PC is probably better for them anyway (cost-wise). But again, that's NOT most people (as seen my tech geeks getting many many calls from family members wanting their PCs fixed).



    But it is about price! This helps explain why PCs have a much better market share. Most people are not power users are just fine getting their email and internets on a PC for the cheapest price possible. That's why I think the ads are effective. Most PC users I know love the ads. Most Mac users I know hate the ads. I think the ads are misleading as are the 'I'm a Mac' ads and the switcher ads that Apple has run. Both play to people's stupidity with half-truths.
  • Reply 26 of 320
    Hmm, mine would have been the first but my reply was a little lengthy... oh well...[/QUOTE]



    Your post was more thoughtful, too! Sorry
  • Reply 27 of 320
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by imapcandmac View Post


    But it is about price! This helps explain why PCs have a much better market share. Most people are not power users are just fine getting their email and internets on a PC for the cheapest price possible. That's why I think the ads are effective. Most PC users I know love the ads. Most Mac users I know hate the ads. I think the ads are misleading as are the 'I'm a Mac' ads and the switcher ads that Apple has run. Both play to people's stupidity with half-truths.



    1) Macs are PCs. They are one PC maker that also makes their own OS. In the US they are about 10% of all PCs. Of the $1000+ range that account for about 70%. Those $400 and under PCs add marketshare but hardly any net profit.



    2) Most cheap PCs do have the power for doing basic task and unless Apple competes at that level, which is unlikely, they will always have a lower marketshare than other PCs. I find the 10% in the US pretty damn high compared to the 20% and 25% of Dell and HP, respectively.



    3) The ads aren't half truths, they are just the whole truth. The difference is that they being honest enough within their perspective but aren't telling the whole truth. I think this aspect of marketing is fine, though I wish we'd follow parts of Europe with requirements for full disclosure of minimum TCO for cell phone plans.



    PS: What is with all the frakkd up quote marke-ups in this thread. Doesn't anyone preview or edit their posts?
  • Reply 28 of 320
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by imapcandmac View Post


    But it is about price!



    Sure, for most people. That's why Windows has such a high share. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.



    But for enough people, perhaps between 5% and 8% (but growing fairly rapidly, and in my view, a share that will level off at 10% or so globally), it's also about a far better OS, no malware, no spyware, no techie-BS, the integration of the computer with their personal lives (iLife, iPod, iPhone, @tv) and so forth. There is a sufficient group out there - and it's not Lauren and her mom - that are happy with that situation. No one has a gun to their heads.



    Btw, if anyone is signaling panic and desperation with these ads, it surely must be MSFT: they must be seeing something happening in their customer/channel pipeline about switching behavior that we don't yet.
  • Reply 29 of 320
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,419member
    The Macintosh was never created as the computer for everyone. It was more like the computer for everyone who was willing to pay a premium.



    Frankly I like that Macs come with a premium though it cuts both ways and sometimes even I get frustrated but the reality is I like a lot of things that Apple does.





    I like that they don't succomb to putting 50 different logos on their computers. I think I can find out that an Apple TV has a HDMI port without having the sticker on the front.



    I like that Apple doesn't install much nagware ..in fact I've never had my mac say "your trial period is up ...give us money if you wish to continue" Desktops for sale suck. Even with iPhoto photobooks or printing supplies its there as an options but you aren't harassed about it.



    I like that Apple has the balls to move forward.



    Getting rid of floppies

    Moving to USB

    Moving to Displayport

    Supporting digital display output (DVI)





    How long did it take PC vendors to get rid of parallel ports for chrissake?



    Sorry. Apple doesn't ship 17" laptops with GMA graphics. They don't ship 4 pin non-powered Firewire. They don't add card readers to their computers so that you can save $15 on that cheapo Wal Mart reader.



    What they do is make elegant computers that are highly functional to the skilled computer user. They made Unix accessible and attractive.



    So I don't give damn if a PC user doesn't understand their lineup or doesn't recognize the beautiful and sturdy unibody casing or understand Apple's philosophy. Chances are you're simply not a Apple customer and more better suited to a PC anyways.
  • Reply 30 of 320
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Look you're not the first guy to pop on these boards with the



    "Well I have a Mac too so my opinion counts"



    Facts are Mac users don't run virus protection AND don't have to be "cognizant" of what they're doing. That's a win in my book.



    New Mac purchasers get iLife for free without the need to purchase an extra software title plus you'd need to add a comparable product to Garageband and iWeb.




    Really, I thought I was the first ever. Thank you for correcting me!



    A lot of Mac users aren't cognizant, just read the forums.



    New Macs do come with iLife but you must purchase every year to stay current. I wouldn't say this is absolutely free. iPhoto sucks as it is not a real photo editor and forces a directory structure on the user. Picasa is much better and free as an organizer and PhotoShop Elements is a great cheap editor. Too bad the Mac version is always a year behind. Windows Photo Gallery that comes with Vista is better than iPhoto IMO. iMovie is a joke anymore and not much better than Movie Maker. I would recommend buying a better video editor. iDVD is very limited and there are free alternatives for the PC. Likewise, there are several free Web creators for the PC with more capability. I personally have not used GarageBand much (nor do I know many that have) so I cannot comment.
  • Reply 31 of 320
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kibitzer View Post


    I gave up on buying new GM cars after such issues as rolled-in steel mill scale in the engine hood, causing the paint to flake off a Pontiac in the first year. I bought a new Olds where the driver's door hand grasp trim disintegrated after just a few months of pulling the door shut. Bad design and bad execution earned GM its just reward, with consumers turning away to more dependable and longer-lived products from Honda, Toyota and Nissan. Now the world's largest car company for decades is staring bankruptcy in the face.



    So it may be with Microsoft. After 25 years of using products with ever more complex, cumbersome and trouble-prone operating systems from Microsoft, I made the break last year for the reliability and durability of Apple. Others are switching too, while Microsoft is still hell-bent on building operating systems with tailfins. Can the world's leading software business be sowing the seeds of its own destruction? Don't be surprised. GM today. Microsoft tomorrow.



    Well said. The only hope for MS is to do what Apple did with OSX's intro and build a completely new OS and include it in only new PC's with strict (MS approved) hardware (think drivers/ram). In other words "divorce" themselves from the Legacy problem.



    Revamp IE, Office to have 80% of the most used features and again no legacy. Still support, xp and Vista for "x" amount of time, run an emulator, maybe. But they have to mitigate the the crap hardware that manufacturers are selling. Think Windows NT of yester-year!



    Any thoughts?
  • Reply 32 of 320
    guinnessguinness Posts: 473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Look you're not the first guy to pop on these boards with the



    "Well I have a Mac too so my opinion counts"



    Facts are Mac users don't run virus protection AND don't have to be "cognizant" of what they're doing. That's a win in my book.



    New Mac purchasers get iLife for free without the need to purchase an extra software title plus you'd need to add a comparable product to Garageband and iWeb.



    Plus there's really no way for you to substantiate your "overpriced hardware" claim. You may try though if you can give me a breakdown of the software and hardware costs then we

    can all make a more informed decision.



    I can build my own PC, even throwing in an OEM copy of Windows, or free ISO of Ubuntu, and build it with better specs than just about any OEM PC, and and Apple (easily). DDR3, quad-core, Lian Li/Cooler Master case, etc.



    When I got my Mac (C2D Mini) about a year and a half ago, I was all geeked about iLife 08 too, but then I came to the conclusion, I don't make web pages, don't make music, and don't have a camcorder, and then I was basically left with only iPhoto, but I don't like that either.



    But I love OSX, but I'm completely frustrated by Apple (I hate AIOs too), and I like how Win7 and Ubuntu are coming along (Ubuntu is probably the closest thing to a standard in Linux, as that seems to be the most popular distro). However, considering most of my personal time is spent in a web browser or e-mail, the OS really, really doesn't matter, outside of some specific apps, and most of those would probably run in a VM.



    I simply don't care that much about a thin laptop or desktop or what it's made out of, if it prevents me for easily adding something, replacing something, or loses me some ports. When I turn on my PC, it turns on, same goes with my Mac. In Windows, I use either AVG or Avast, both free anti-virus, just keep them updated, it's not that flippin' hard, and I use a custom hosts file to block ads on all my computers, because they're annoying.



    They work, I don't worry about it.
  • Reply 33 of 320
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    3) The ads aren't half truths, they are just the whole truth. The difference is that they being honest enough within their perspective but aren't telling the whole truth.




    Two of the recent ads for the Mac talked about the PC locking up all the time. As I mentioned above, I have had more issues with OS X than Vista or Windows 7. We have a lot of Windows users at work and lockups are not common at all in the past several years with XP and Vista.
  • Reply 34 of 320
    pt123pt123 Posts: 696member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jpellino View Post


    Sticker price is only item 1 in a purchase. After running two campuses with hundreds of units, I can peg a Mac's usable life at 5 years, a PC's at just about 3. So factor that in and you're still ahead with a Mac. Add in support costs (we've found that a tech can support about 4 times as many Macs as PCs with the same effort and time) and sticker price becomes a sucker's bet.



    Not for everyone. I had a Powerbook G3 and the cache went bad after 3 years. I had a Powerbook G4 and the backlight on the LCD went bad after 4 years. Replaced it with a $1299 Macbook. I have a Sony Vaio that lasted 5 years. I replaced it with a $500 Acer. It pretty much does everything I do on the Mac (email, web, word). No support issues on either computer. I can't really say what is a better deal over time until it is all said and done, but it is nice to get a 2nd computer for less than half the price that does everything I want it to.



    I had the first generation Macbook and it had it shares of problems. It went back twice for warranty work - bad trackpad, DVD drive scratching the disc. It also had a problem with not shutting down correctly and heating up because the processor was still on. But I got rid of it and got the latest Macbook which is much better. So I would say it is hit or miss with either platform.
  • Reply 35 of 320
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by imapcandmac View Post


    Really, I thought I was the first ever. Thank you for correcting me!



    A lot of Mac users aren't cognizant, just read the forums.



    New Macs do come with iLife but you must purchase every year to stay current. I wouldn't say this is absolutely free. iPhoto sucks as it is not a real photo editor and forces a directory structure on the user. Picasa is much better and free as an organizer and PhotoShop Elements is a great cheap editor. Too bad the Mac version is always a year behind. Windows Photo Gallery that comes with Vista is better than iPhoto IMO. iMovie is a joke anymore and not much better than Movie Maker. I would recommend buying a better video editor. iDVD is very limited and there are free alternatives for the PC. Likewise, there are several free Web creators for the PC with more capability. I personally have not used GarageBand much (nor do I know many that have) so I cannot comment.





    Lol, do you even know what you talking about??? Have you really used iLife. iPhoto, like Picasa and Photoshop, is meant to be more of a organizer and presentation of your photos with some editing features. For real editor, you have to go things like PS or after effect, which most ppl won't used. iPhoto is "light years" ahead, Picasa is the best alternative on the windows for such basic app. Why do you think google doesn't have a mac version of it (as they already going to have chrome for mac soon), cuz they know they won't get any share there. iMovie only a lil bit better than movie make? tat's a joke rite? really funny. Movie maker is worthless piece of junk while iMovie is sufficient to make gorgeous home movies for a lot of great features. For professional, you could need such thing as Final Cut Pro (which is arguable the best) or Premiere. Garageband vs. songsmith, lol, no need to test which is way superior.



    For basic "fun" with music, photos, videos, iLife (which target basic users) beats same categorical apps on windows. For professional, most creative prof will tell you they prefer software to be on a mac.



    just my 2 cent, no offense
  • Reply 36 of 320
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by evilcnboy View Post


    Lol, do you even know what you talking about??? Have you really used iLife. iPhoto, like Picasa and Photoshop, is meant to be more of a organizer and presentation of your photos with some editing features. For real editor, you have to go things like PS or after effect, which most ppl won't used. iPhoto is "light years" ahead, Picasa is the best alternative on the windows for such basic app. Why do you think google doesn't have a mac version of it (as they already going to have chrome for mac soon), cuz they know they won't get any share there. iMovie only a lil bit better than movie make? tat's a joke rite? really funny. Movie maker is worthless piece of junk while iMovie is sufficient to make gorgeous home movies for a lot of great features. For professional, you could need such thing as Final Cut Pro (which is arguable the best) or Premiere. Garageband vs. songsmith, lol, no need to test which is way superior.



    Agreed!
  • Reply 37 of 320
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by evilcnboy View Post


    Lol, do you even know what you talking about??? Have you really used iLife. iPhoto, like Picasa and Photoshop, is meant to be more of a organizer and presentation of your photos with some editing features. For real editor, you have to go things like PS or after effect, which most ppl won't used. iPhoto is "light years" ahead, Picasa is the best alternative on the windows for such basic app. Why do you think google doesn't have a mac version of it (as they already going to have chrome for mac soon), cuz they know they won't get any share there. iMovie only a lil bit better than movie make? tat's a joke rite? really funny. Movie maker is worthless piece of junk while iMovie is sufficient to make gorgeous home movies for a lot of great features. For professional, you could need such thing as Final Cut Pro (which is arguable the best) or Premiere. Garageband vs. songsmith, lol, no need to test which is way superior.



    Picasa is available on the Mac and I use it often



    I have Photoshop Elements and Premiere Elements on Windows ($99 for the package) which are light years ahead of iPhoto, iMovie, and iDVD.



    I liked iMovie 6 much better than the current version. The encoding used in iDVD is poor and pixelated and choppy compared to Premiere Elements.
  • Reply 38 of 320
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,757member
    Ok.



    But how fast do these generic PCs run OS X and its own software?



    Oh wait . . .
  • Reply 39 of 320
    OMG, this new Lauren is so hot. But all you freaking nerds keep spinning the Win/OSX broken record.
  • Reply 40 of 320
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Facts are Mac users don't run virus protection AND don't have to be "cognizant" of what they're doing. That's a win in my book.




    For almost 9 years now . . . and no end in sight.



    I'll gladly pay more for that, and will continue to do so.
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