Give me Multi-Touch or Give me Death (or really bad carpal tunnel)!

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
Hello Everyone,



Like many people, I am waiting for Apple to create a fully functional Multi-Touch computer. Over the past year I’ve been just a little obsessed with the topic. It Started when I was sitting in my BioChem class and realized how the current keyboard and mouse interface limited my ability to effectively use my MacBook Pro in class. After a month or so of dreaming about how a Multi-Touch computer would work I realized how complex it would be. So, over the past year I developed a concept for a workable interface and made a few videos and concept art to show off parts of the concept. Please watch the vids (7 in all) and take a look and the pics (around 25 of them) then let me know what you think.



What do you want in a Multi-Touch Computer? Do you even think Multi-Touch Computers would be worth it? This 10in touch device rumored, do you think it's a media device or a fully functioning computer?



http://macslate.blogspot.com/

http://www.youtube.com/thenewtouch

http://www.flickr.com/photos/thenewtouch/





Thanks

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 19
    olternautolternaut Posts: 1,376member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lookoverthere View Post


    Hello Everyone,



    Like many people, I am waiting for Apple to create a fully functional Multi-Touch computer. Over the past year I?ve been just a little obsessed with the topic. It Started when I was sitting in my BioChem class and realized how the current keyboard and mouse interface limited my ability to effectively use my MacBook Pro in class. After a month or so of dreaming about how a Multi-Touch computer would work I realized how complex it would be. So, over the past year I developed a concept for a workable interface and made a few videos and concept art to show off parts of the concept. Please watch the vids (7 in all) and take a look and the pics (around 25 of them) then let me know what you think.



    What do you want in a Multi-Touch Computer? Do you even think Multi-Touch Computers would be worth it? This 10in touch device rumored, do you think it's a media device or a fully functioning computer?



    http://www.flickr.com/people/thenewtouch/

    http://www.youtube.com/thenewtouch

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/thenewtouch/





    Thanks



    Its Sunday morning and I'm still groggy. Before I thoroughly respond to this thread I need to think about my response with a clear head. Let me just say though that whatever Apple is working on to address this market segment.....I want it!
  • Reply 2 of 19
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lookoverthere View Post


    Hello Everyone,

    ................. Please watch the vids (7 in all) and take a look and the pics (around 25 of them) then let me know what you think.



    That would interfere with my iTunes downloads!!!!!

    Quote:



    What do you want in a Multi-Touch Computer? Do you even think Multi-Touch Computers would be worth it? This 10in touch device rumored, do you think it's a media device or a fully functioning computer?



    We what I want is a Maxi Touch like machine. I'm not convinced that such devices will replace standard computer for awhile. The thing is multi touch is really only good for mobile operation so until it is combined with more advanced forms of user interfacing it will only be of value in that narrow spectrum of devices.



    No time for movies right now.

    Quote:

    Thanks



    The number one consideration is that multi-touch is only really useful for a limited range of devices. Yes I want a larger device with multi-touch in mind but I'm not going to get all excited considering what is possible with current technology. Ultimately though we will get there as circuit density and specialization increases.



    I'm not sure how well Apple will do with their first release, it is obvious they are taking their time but I believe part of that is due to the no hardware issue. I expect that Apple will use bleeding edge ARM technology here and I believe that tech will be stressed to deliver the interface Apple wants. Much in the same way tat the current iPhone is stressed to deliver. Of course it is well known that Apple has constructed a devision within the company that is tasked with building that new hardware, but I'm wondering just how big of an advance it will be over run of the mill Cortex platforms. I wouldn't be surprised to find them building a 64 bit ARM platform in partnership with ARM. I'm not even sure it will be Cortex based as I don't believe current iPhone even make use of the Cortex instruction set.



    I do know one thing, next moths debut of a new iPhone is going to be very interesting to say the least. Hopefully some tidbits of info on the coming tablets will drip out.







    Dave
  • Reply 3 of 19
    garypgaryp Posts: 150member
    Thank you, lookoverthere, for an amazing first post. You have put an tremendous amount of thought and work into your multi-touch concept. I hope Apple is working along these lines. I watched all your videos, and each one was worth it. The biggest question that came to me was if multi-touch would work as well on a large screen. I do a lot of work on an Apple 30 inch display, and would love to ditch mouse & keyboard, but it wouldn't work in present vertical orientation. Perhaps slanted like a drawing board?
  • Reply 4 of 19
    tacojohntacojohn Posts: 980member
    very nice dude... now make it look like this and I'm sold?



  • Reply 5 of 19
    webmailwebmail Posts: 639member
    queue the small amount of vegetable oil added to the screen roommate's multi-touch computer...
  • Reply 6 of 19
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by garyp View Post


    Thank you, lookoverthere, for an amazing first post. You have put an tremendous amount of thought and work into your multi-touch concept. I hope Apple is working along these lines. I watched all your videos, and each one was worth it. The biggest question that came to me was if multi-touch would work as well on a large screen. I do a lot of work on an Apple 30 inch display, and would love to ditch mouse & keyboard, but it wouldn't work in present vertical orientation. Perhaps slanted like a drawing board?



    Yep, just like a drawing board. That's the thought I had. From what I can imagine a Multi-Touch computer would be much more versatile on larger displays (24in+). On a larger display I can imagine having multiple inspectors and formating palettes out and a much larger virtual keyboard. It would also greatly improve your workflow. Instead of having to remember how you mapped your tools to the keyboard, you would simply select it right from the toolbar or inspector.



    Thanks for the comments
  • Reply 7 of 19
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tacojohn View Post


    very nice dude... now make it look like this and I'm sold?









    That's nice! Where did that come from? Did you make it? I would want a slightly larger screen though.



    Still, a cool concept. Thanks
  • Reply 8 of 19
    mtomto Posts: 16member
    Multi touch is here iPhone! lol Just give it time Apple will expand it further.

    Personally I'm not sure why people get so excited about this technology... Yes is here and is what makes the iPhone and will make the tablet. And MS is integrating it into their next OS also will Apple. But I don't want to have to sit here and be touching my screen all dam day. My arms will get flipping tired. Just think how hard it would be to just type a reply out. Speech control would be more productive in my opinion. Yet make no mistake multi touch is absolutely perfect for tablets.
  • Reply 9 of 19
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MTO View Post


    Multi touch is here iPhone! lol Just give it time Apple will expand it further...



    Yep, Apple does seem to be researching this area of technology.



    Quote:

    ...Personally I'm not sure why people get so excited about this technology... Yes is here and is what makes the iPhone and will make the tablet...



    Multi-Touch allows for a level of control and access over your computer that a keyboard and mouse could never do. However, the Multi-Touch system that Apple is using for the iPhone would not be applicable to a Tablet Computer (big iPod Touch yes, computer no).



    Quote:

    ...And MS is integrating it into their next OS also will Apple. But I don't want to have to sit here and be touching my screen all dam day. My arms will get flipping tired...



    You're thinking about Multi-Touch in the wrong way. A well thought out Multi-Touch computer would not sit up like your current display. It would be pulled down in front of you where the keyboard is now. That's the problem with Micro$oft's implementation of touch. They are adding it on top of the current keyboard and mouse interface paradigm. This is cool to play with but impractical to really use. Apple's method with the current interface structure is to add multi-touch to the trackpad. That's a much smarter way to use Multi-Touch on a keyboard and mouse based OS. A true Multi-Touch centric OS would be needed to make a Tablet that could compete with the Mac. I go into more detail on my Flickr profile: http://www.flickr.com/people/thenewtouch/



    Quote:

    ...Just think how hard it would be to just type a reply out...



    If Multi-Touch is done right it wouldn't be hard at all. The main problem I have with my iPod Touch is that the keyboard is way too small. Despite that I can type fairly fast on the dang thing. With the same adaptive typing technology applied to a much larger virtual keyboard I would imagine that people could type just about as fast as they do on a physical keyboard.



    Quote:

    ...Speech control would be more productive in my opinion...



    Maybe for dictation, but not to control the computer. Much more information is conveyed through the subtleties of touch gesture than with words. Think of it like this: no matter how many words are used, a skilled painter could never talk an amateur though painting a masterpiece.



    Quote:

    ...Yet make no mistake multi touch is absolutely perfect for tablets...



    But not just for Tablets. Multi-Touch would almost be better on much larger desktop computers with 24in+ displays. Especially for graphic artists.



    Thanks for your comments!
  • Reply 10 of 19
    This is a quote from another forum where I started a similar thread. I though it made sense to quote it here:



    Quote:

    I'm only partly into the third video so far, but I have one question.

    One of your goals is to make the most of the screen real estate available, right? So why move the application menus, usually using the otherwise blank space in the menu bar, to the top right corner of the application window? Not only is that a way to waste space, it also requires one more tap to get to a given item because you have to tap just to open the list of menus.



    I figured I'd respond to it here as well...



    Unlike a keyboard and mouse, which is limited to one window at a time, a Multi-Touch computer would be capable of allowing a person (or multiple persons) to control several windows simultaneously. At this point the concept of the "On Top" or Active Application disappears. Who would get the menu bar when there are two different windows from two different apps being used? I moved the Menus to the window so that every window is its own self sufficient island. The Menu Bar at the top of the screen is now the Command Bar. The Command Bar simply controls Slate and everything on the screen. The Command Bar adapts to the four user environments: 1) The Desktop. 2) Full Screen Apps (where the menu does return to the top because that window is now the focus). 3) Split Screen Mode (which is really just a way to tile selected windows on the screen). 4) Tabletops (Tabletops are really cool. They are an adaptive environment meant for viewing various files and/or allowing for easy Multi-User access on very large displays. Imagine iPhoto using this environment for a Light Table). So with all the different ways you can interact with and view your apps and files it made sense to me to limit the Command Bar to controlling the environment using the screen instead of the individual apps.



    let me know what you think.
  • Reply 11 of 19
    As I have already said above, I believe that Multi-Touch can be used as the main interface system for post-pc computers (Mac replacements basically). But there are other possibilities to mention:



    There are several people who don't believe that Multi-Touch would be a good alternative for controlling a Mac-like device, but they would love to see Multi-Touch applied to a larger iPod Touch like device (Newton 2.0).



    Still others believe that Multi-Touch is really only good for very very large displays (6ft +) with specialized software only usable by graphic artists, engineers, and storyboard production.



    I personally believe that all three applications are possible and each would have a market. I think the post-pc era will bring several devices for our use. Ones like our iPhones and iPod Touches, ones like Macs, and others that have no comparable category as of yet.



    Any thought?
  • Reply 12 of 19
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,503member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tacojohn View Post


    very nice dude... now make it look like this and I'm sold–







    Too small. The Tablet won't be a fit in a small side pocket of your travel bag, laptop bag, school bag.
  • Reply 13 of 19
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lookoverthere View Post


    As I have already said above, I believe that Multi-Touch can be used as the main interface system for post-pc computers (Mac replacements basically). But there are other possibilities to mention:



    Not a snowballs chance in hell. While I can see some benefit to Touch on a desktop it cane in no way replace the legacy interface elements and tools. The only way I could see Multi Touch on the desktop being successful is if it was coupled with other technology such as voice processing. I'm not talking recognition of simple commands either, rather I'm talking about advanced processing of the speech to deduce what is desired. In a sense this would imply direct interaction with an artificial intelligence.

    Quote:



    There are several people who don't believe that Multi-Touch would be a good alternative for controlling a Mac-like device, but they would love to see Multi-Touch applied to a larger iPod Touch like device (Newton 2.0).



    >>>Raises his hand waving wildly.



    This is exactly what I want. Multi Touch on a device that is bigger than the current iPod Touch.



    Why do I think it would work here? Well simple Apples Touch based devices don't pretend to be full be full blown computing devices nor do developers see them as capable of deskop like interaction. Touch device work well because Apple and the developer community bought into a vision of unique device interface.



    The question is can multi touch effectively replace the legacy interface elements for something like a word processor. Frankly it can't. More do the hardware space is littered with former tablets that tried this approach. It will be very difficult to replace something as simple as a keyboard for things like heavy text entry. This is why I don't see multi touch becoming significant until it can be combined with AI and voice communications.

    Quote:



    Still others believe that Multi-Touch is really only good for very very large displays (6ft +) with specialized software only usable by graphic artists, engineers, and storyboard production.



    Honestly I've never heard of this. That is far removed from the hand held devices category.

    Quote:



    I personally believe that all three applications are possible and each would have a market. I think the post-pc era will bring several devices for our use. Ones like our iPhones and iPod Touches, ones like Macs, and others that have no comparable category as of yet.



    Any thought?



    If Apple brings my thoughts about a tablet to reality I could see it fitting into your other category. It would be a device for the consumption of data primarily. That is it delivers a web experience, plays movies and is highly functional as an ebook - magazine reader. Effectively delivering an iPod Touch on a larger screen. It is not the place to write war and peace, nor is it a place to code up the next great web site. View that web site maybe, maintain possibly but doing full blown development on a Touch device would be madness. In a way it takes the idea of Kindle and makes it useful.



    Dave
  • Reply 14 of 19
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Not a snowballs chance in hell. While I can see some benefit to Touch on a desktop it cane in no way replace the legacy interface elements and tools. The only way I could see Multi Touch on the desktop being successful is if it was coupled with other technology such as voice processing. I'm not talking recognition of simple commands either, rather I'm talking about advanced processing of the speech to deduce what is desired. In a sense this would imply direct interaction with an artificial intelligence.



    The whole point of my videos is to SHOW HOW IT CAN BE DONE! I'm not talking about taking the Mac OS as it is and cramming Multi-Touch in. I'm saying we should completely abandon the Mac OS (all but the most basic components of it), and make a Multi-Touch centric one. No artificial intelligence needed to use your dang computer.



    Now, on a multi-touch computer there is plenty of room for the OS to adapt to your touch. Kind of like the iPhone keyboard when it actively adjust to your typing and offers recommendations.



    (And before you say anything: typing on a larger multi-touch virtual keyboard would be much easier than on the iPhone's. These keyboards could also adapt to the app you're using.)



    Quote:

    The question is can multi touch effectively replace the legacy interface elements for something like a word processor. Frankly it can't. More do the hardware space is littered with former tablets that tried this approach. It will be very difficult to replace something as simple as a keyboard for things like heavy text entry. This is why I don't see multi touch becoming significant until it can be combined with AI and voice communications.



    Hmm. Word processing. It's as if I made a video showing basic Multi-Touch word processing... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aII5WAwhzMY And it's as if I made a Flickr set to show off even more gesture controls: http://www.flickr.com/photos/thenewt...7619101303797/



    Like I said above, the OS would need to be radically altered. Just like OS X was to create the iPhone OS. The only difference is that this Multi-Touch OS would be comparable in performance to the Mac. It would NOT be a Mac with Multi-Touch thrown on top. I guess I should start using the term "Mac-Level" instead of "Mac-like," maybe that will clear up some confusion.



    PC Tablets failed because they took the current Keyboard-mouse centric OS and added a form of touch on top. And it wasn't even a good form of touch. It was single-point stylus based touch. That's why they failed. That's the same reason why Windows 7 touch will fail. Yes, it's multi-touch, but it's on top of that keyboard-mouse OS again.



    The kind of Multi-Touch computer I'm talking about would not be capable of using Mac Apps. All the Mac apps would have to be remade for this Multi-Touch device simply because the legacy interface elements have to be avoided. It's analogous to the change from Classic Mac OS to Mac OS X.



    There would still be the ability to connect a physical keyboard to a Multi-Touch device. The physical keyboard to a multi-touch computer would be like a Wacom Tablet to modern computers. You would not see them often, and usually the ones who have them are on a pro or semi-pro level (like writers). A well done virtual keyboard would be capable of handling text entry for a post like this, or even a multi-page report.



    Quote:

    Honestly I've never heard of this. That is far removed from the hand held devices category.



    That would be http://www.perceptivepixel.com/ . Jeff Han has focused on larger Touch display technology. Here's a video of him showing off his concept: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKh1Rv0PlOQ it's not a portable. I'm just talking about Multi-Touch control in general.



    Quote:

    If Apple brings my thoughts about a tablet to reality I could see it fitting into your other category. It would be a device for the consumption of data primarily. That is it delivers a web experience, plays movies and is highly functional as an ebook - magazine reader. Effectively delivering an iPod Touch on a larger screen. It is not the place to write war and peace, nor is it a place to code up the next great web site. View that web site maybe, maintain possibly but doing full blown development on a Touch device would be madness. In a way it takes the idea of Kindle and makes it useful.



    And I could see this kind of device becoming a reality. But, I don't believe Multi-Touch control should be limited to such a consumer device, useful though it would be.



    If you think of Multi-Touch as what we currently see in the iPod Touch and iPhone no wonder you don't see how it could be applied to a Mac-level device. Multi-touch has the ability to grow with gestures and systems in place to make production simple. I think it would be foolish to limit such a powerful interface system to a larger iPod Touch format. As Jeff said in that video "These interfaces should start conforming to us." That would apply to our personal computers as well.



    Thanks for your thoughts. Looking forward to more from you!
  • Reply 15 of 19
    xyz001xyz001 Posts: 117member
    You all have to give the original poster credit for a pretty awsome video.



    Serious work and thought is put into this (as opposed to the lame first replies)



    Nice job!



    I think a tablet like this will come sooner or later. Most of your casual time on your computer today is spend on things where a physical keyboard is of little importance.



    Its the future man



    BTW wtf is with the title? dont get it
  • Reply 16 of 19
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by xyz001 View Post


    You all have to give the original poster credit for a pretty awsome video.



    Serious work and thought is put into this (as opposed to the lame first replies)



    Nice job!



    I think a tablet like this will come sooner or later. Most of your casual time on your computer today is spend on things where a physical keyboard is of little importance.



    Its the future man



    BTW wtf is with the title? dont get it





    Thanks for your comments!



    I wanted a title that would draw some attention with a little humor but still let people know it was about Multi-Touch.



    I took the quote "Give Me Liberty Or Give Me Death" spoken by Patrick Henry to the Virginia Convention in 1775, and modified it a little.



    Because I'm not really willing to die for a Multi-Touch computer I threw in the carpal tunnel option.



    Sorry it took so long to reply. I'm still working on the next four videos.
  • Reply 17 of 19
    Sorry it took so long. Here are three more videos:



    Tabletops



    Games and Slate



    Now with the gaming videos. I'm not too pleased with them. I had such a hard time trying to make the First Person Shooter video that I had to leave it out. But, you can get the gist of how it would work from the other videos.



    On that blog there are several other posts summarizing my concept. You can find the blog here:

    MacSlate.blogspot.com



    Let me know what you think
  • Reply 18 of 19
    irelandireland Posts: 17,798member
    Your only limitation is your imagination. Well... that and cost-limitations, today's crappy battery technology, and today's possible technologies/available parts.
  • Reply 19 of 19
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Hi Guys



    If you look here: http://www.cubloc.com/product/05_04.php you will see an example of an industrial 7" screen. It does 800 x 480, not bad in a 7" diagonal, which is about 8.5" x 4.7" overall size with the screen inset in the bezel. Obviously Apple can do better with a custom LCD or OLED screen in a housing of its own design. These are flat panels obviously designed for mounting in industrial panels so have a limited scope of application. Even so the QTY 1 prices is only $299. Cubloc also has a 10.2" screen for those so inclined.



    I had to point out this manufacture because the add struck me in that they had two devices in the add one in each of the size we are arguing about here. Now this doesn't really do much for us other than to highlight what is on sale right now in the world outside of Apple. The price is very good actually, considering industrial hardware of this type is very low volume.





    Dave
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