iPhone Review Series: iPhone vs. Palm Treo 650

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  • melgrossmelgross Posts: 28,737member, moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by filburt View Post


    I was about to question the fairness of comparing 2-year old Treo 650 vs. brand new phone. Then I realized... the latest Treo 750 is only a hair smaller than Treo 650, stuck with the same old screen and largely the same design. It discards 90's style antenna while adding a bit more memory (still paltry at 60 MB), 3G UMTS, and more pixels on camera (meager 1.3 MP). Worse, it runs Windows Mobile and has worse battery life -- rated at 2.5 hours talk time in 3G mode.



    I am somewhat hopefully that Palm will turn around and release something that could compete with Blackberries and iPhone. But that whole Foleo fiasco isn't helping my optimism.



    The 700p is a much better phone than either of those other Palms mentioned.
  • auxioauxio Posts: 1,669member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    If, and when, Apple addresses those shortcomings, Then I will become a proud owner of an iPhone. Until then, it serves no purpose for me.



    Well, you can wait for Apple if you like. In the meantime, I'll be doing all of those things you mention with my iPhone.



    And I dunno, most places I go I'm able to find a WiFi spot. I personally don't have to be connected to the Internet 24/7. I can usually wait until I get to somewhere which has a hotspot (hotel, coffee shop, etc) to use the Internet. And if you really can't wait, a lot of major cities (at least here in Canada) have WiFi throughout the downtown core (for a small fee). For the very rare times otherwise, I'll use the cell network for data sparingly.
  • melgrossmelgross Posts: 28,737member, moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by auxio View Post


    And then there's the % of the population that figures out how to fully unlock the phone and run 3rd party apps on it. Makes perfect sense to me.



    You forgot to add into your sentence: "very small %"
  • bg_nycbg_nyc Posts: 189member
    Seems like this article is pure iPhone propoganda, but one thing it does do is let it be known clearly that the Palm needs to get its act together. Mac users are growing every day, and to continue to produce smartphones that does not play nicely with Mac is a pretty big mistake.



    I have a Treo 650 which I love and rely on heavily b/c it syncs with my Outlook at work and allows me to have my calendar with me at all times. And I happen to love the touch screen and the interface. Its quite simple, especially if you've used Palm/Handspring in the past. But that does not mean that i will stay with Palm forever. If the iPhone reduced a bit in price and had really reliable and easy calendar/contact Outlook syncing with my work PC while still allowing me to sync iTunes with my Powerbook G4, I would enthusiastically put my Treo on eBay.



    I think iPhone raised the bar for all smartphones, and I look forward to Palm's first real response to the iPhone.
  • melgrossmelgross Posts: 28,737member, moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by auxio View Post


    Well, you can wait for Apple if you like. In the meantime, I'll be doing all of those things you mention with my iPhone.



    And I dunno, most places I go I'm able to find a WiFi spot. I personally don't have to be connected to the Internet 24/7. I can usually wait until I get to somewhere which has a hotspot (hotel, coffee shop, etc) to use the Internet. And if you really can't wait, a lot of major cities (at least here in Canada) have WiFi throughout the downtown core (for a small fee). For the very rare times otherwise, I'll use the cell network for data sparingly.



    Actually, you're not doing most of them. Particularly as you have no idea which of them I AM doing.
  • addisonaddison Posts: 1,183member
    You are not comparing like with like. the iPhone is very much a consumer phone and as such it wins hands down. As a business phone then I think the review is a little biased.



    I have a Treo 650 and it works flawlessly with iSync, syncing contacts, and calanders, no problems here and I am keeping three Mac's as well as the Treo all in sync using .mac



    The Treo supports a large number of Third party apps including Real player, Adobe, and Office Documents. However I also have the Swiss Rail timetable application, Prioriety Pass (Airport lounge database programme) the BBC have a "Radio Times" palm application that gives me a compleate TV programme for all UK TV and satalite channels. As a yachtsman, I also have Tide Tool which give tide heights of all major ports around the world every hour of every day and the list goes on. There are neumerous data base programmes for the Palm INCLUDING FileMaker! As a business phone the iPhone will never cut it unless it releases developer tools.



    having said that there seem to be enough hacks around to allow the determined programmer to be able to create native apps, but without developer tools it is just never going to be able to replace the Palm.



    Don't get me wrong the iP{hone is a nifty phone and will be a sucsess, but the article should have been more balanced. It will take a long time for the Phone to reach the point when the user is able to choose the applications that allow them to "Own" the phone.
  • tj8212tj8212 Posts: 2member
    Here are some really nice side by side pics of treo apps vs iphone apps

    http://www.tunjiafonja.com/tunjis_we...o-vs-my-i.html
  • tmedia1tmedia1 Posts: 104member
    This is such a biased article/blog or whatever you want to call it. Yes, the iPhone is an awesome piece of engineering/software, and Palm is slow to update and support, but come on, this article does nothing to create a fair or real comparison of the 2 products. I have been an Apple fan and Palm fan/user for many many years and I would love a real comparison of the 2 phones and this isn't it. First of all, you're comparing an old Treo product. Their most recent phone is the Treo 755P, which is a 3G Palm based phone, NOT a Windows mobile device. So maybe you should start there. I can run numerous 3rd party apps and use my 3G phone as a modem with my MB pro and I can use the 4 gigs miniSD card for storage of anything I want. The iPhone can't do any of these things and they are all deal breakers for me.BTW, my Treo sync flawlessly with my desktop, so I don't know why you have such problems with yours...
  • auxioauxio Posts: 1,669member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    You forgot to add into your sentence: "very small %"



    I should have posted that reply myself as I knew it was coming.



    Downloading and running one Cocoa GUI app to activate the phone and open it up for 3rd party apps, then ordering a TurboSIM and wrapping it around your SIM card (if you don't/can't have an AT&T account) isn't all that hard (though admittedly it adds to the price). And a software SIM unlock isn't very far off, so that should make it even cheaper and easier.



    If you can find and install 3rd party apps for your Treo, chances are you have the skill to unlock an iPhone.



    Sure it's not the ideal solution, but it works for the timebeing and will only get easier as time goes on. If/when Apple opens things up, then it's very likely those same apps will be ported to use Apple's system very shortly afterwards.
  • auxioauxio Posts: 1,669member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Actually, you're not doing most of them. Particularly as you have no idea which of them I AM doing.



    So tell me and I'm pretty sure that if there's enough people doing them, they'll be ported to the iPhone within a couple of months.
  • bigpatkybigpatky Posts: 5member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post


    Treos can not be had for less than an iPhone. The monthly service for the iPhone with its unlimited data plan is less than that for a Treo. The savings are roughly $20/month plus taxes and fees. Over the life of a 2-year contract, when compared to the cost of a Treo (and nearly every other smart phone), the iPhone is effectively FREE.



    uh, i'm getting the treo 755p for $150 and will have 500 minutes a month and unlimited data for $30 a month. personally, i would love to have an iphone over a treo, but i really can't afford it.
  • tmedia1tmedia1 Posts: 104member
    The 755P is even better...
  • caliminiuscaliminius Posts: 944member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post


    It had the feel of being extremely one sided from the start. The iPhone has the same problem as Apple computers the lack of third party support and software. The iPhone is going to be a dead issue if Apple in the long run does not allow it to be carried by all large providers and drop the price when you get a 2 year contract, just like the rest of the world.



    I can understand them not doing that right now because there is always a % of the population that will pay just to be the first to have something, in spite of it making no sense at all. Apple will take advantage of that group of people and then fall in to line with everyone else. If they don't then it will fail badly.



    I live just north of ATL where there are two apple stores and cingluar/att is on par with Verizon and I have yet to see anyone with a iPhone.



    When you take the cost of the iPhone then add accessories, tax and then the cost of the full voice/data plan there are only so many people in this world willing to spend that kind of money on a cell phone.



    Of course it's one-sided. It's by the RoughlyDrafted website author (hence the numerous links to that site). I really wanted to be okay with this review, but like always he acts like the biggest Apple apologist around. He downplays every flaw (Flash not necessary? Makes many websites I have unusable without it.), makes claims about how features are coming to the iPhone (don't know how he can know that as no one else seems to know that), and takes cheap shots at Windows and anything else non-Apple for no apparent reason (No, I'm not a MS fan but what do they have to do with this Palm phone?).



    Come on, AppleInsider, couldn't you have someone review Apple products who wasn't so clearly biased? It doesn't do much for your site's journalistic integrity to have such flagrant propaganda being posted as a review.



    And before it's said, I know no one shoved this article down my throat (but I sure as h*ll wish there was a way I could throw it back up).
  • extremeskaterextremeskater Posts: 2,248member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by auxio View Post


    And then there's the % of the population that figures out how to fully unlock the phone and run 3rd party apps on it. Makes perfect sense to me.



    And then trades it for a new car. I believe there was an article on MSN this morning about a person that traded an unlocked iphone for a car.
  • melgrossmelgross Posts: 28,737member, moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by auxio View Post


    I should have posted that reply myself as I knew it was coming.



    Downloading and running one Cocoa GUI app to activate the phone, then ordering a TurboSIM and wrapping it around your SIM card isn't all that hard (though admittedly it adds to the price). And a software SIM unlock isn't very far off, so that should make it even cheaper and easier.



    Right now, the Turbo Sim is not for sale. Maybe you didn't read about that. There was a good article about how the developers of that were not selling it. Perhaps a handful of people managed to get one, but it is not generally available.



    Installing the iPhone program installer itself requires the (simple) use of Terminal. Most people have a fear of doing that. I'm hoping that someone will develop a GUI for it that will take care of actually going to Terminal oneself.



    In addition, unless somethings' changed in the past few days, there is no way for anyone other than Mac users to (relatively) easily get programs on their iPhone, and the other nineteen out of twenty of iPhone users have no equivalent program to the Mac based iPhone installer.



    If, and until, a software unlock is generally available, one can't use that as an excuse. The company in Ireland (I thunk it is) CLAIMS to have a software unlock, but that hasn't been proven. Their claim that "someone" from ATT called and "possibly" threatened them with legalities has not been confirmed. The existence of such an unlock has therefore not been proven, and is in doubt.
  • tmedia1tmedia1 Posts: 104member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post


    Treos can not be had for less than an iPhone. The monthly service for the iPhone with its unlimited data plan is less than that for a Treo. The savings are roughly $20/month plus taxes and fees. Over the life of a 2-year contract, when compared to the cost of a Treo (and nearly every other smart phone), the iPhone is effectively FREE.



    My Treo bill on Sprint with unlimited data is less that the comparable plan with the iPhone. maybe you should do some research first...
  • auxioauxio Posts: 1,669member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Actually, you're not doing most of them. Particularly as you have no idea which of them I AM doing.



    Actually, you didn't really mention anything other than running 3rd party apps, so I am doing everything you mentioned.
  • melgrossmelgross Posts: 28,737member, moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by auxio View Post


    So tell me and I'm pretty sure that if there's enough people doing them, they'll be ported to the iPhone within a couple of months.



    You have no high speed internet service. Again, WiFi simply is not that useful yet (if ever).



    Scientific calculator. A good one, not just any crappy implimentation. Book readers that can reliably read Palm books in addition to some HTML versions. The USDA nutrition guide (a large program). Mainstream games.



    I also use drawing programs, the camcorder app, which is useful to me, a dictionary program, and an external keyboard for those times when I want to get data in quickly, but don't want to go to the computer to do it, or am away from it.



    I also have a universal remote control program, which not only works with my audio/video system, but also replaces Apple's own control.



    There are others as well, but enough is enough.
  • auxioauxio Posts: 1,669member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Right now, the Turbo Sim is not for sale. Maybe you didn't read about that. There was a good article about how the developers of that were not selling it. Perhaps a handful of people managed to get one, but it is not generally available.



    They simply ran out for the timebeing, but are producing more. Votech in Australia has a shipment from Bladox in customs right now.

    Quote:

    Installing the iPhone program installer itself requires the (simple) use of Terminal. Most people have a fear of doing that. I'm hoping that someone will develop a GUI for it that will take care of actually going to Terminal oneself.



    There is a GUI program.

    Quote:

    In addition, unless somethings' changed in the past few days, there is no way for anyone other than Mac users to (relatively) easily get programs on their iPhone, and the other nineteen out of twenty of iPhone users have no equivalent program to the Mac based iPhone installer.



    Once SFTP is installed (which the above-linked program does with one button click), then you can use your favorite SFTP client to install apps. I perfer Transmit for Mac, but there are programs for Windows as well.

    Quote:

    If, and until, a software unlock is generally available, one can't use that as an excuse. The company in Ireland (I thunk it is) CLAIMS to have a software unlock, but that hasn't been proven. Their claim that "someone" from ATT called and "possibly" threatened them with legalities has not been confirmed. The existence of such an unlock has therefore not been proven, and is in doubt.



    iphonesimfree.com is already taking bulk orders for their software (which was reported on Engadget). But yes, there's nothing official yet (though it seems very close).
  • extremeskaterextremeskater Posts: 2,248member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by caliminius View Post


    Of course it's one-sided. It's by the RoughlyDrafted website author (hence the numerous links to that site). I really wanted to be okay with this review, but like always he acts like the biggest Apple apologist around. He downplays every flaw (Flash not necessary? Makes many websites I have unusable without it.), makes claims about how features are coming to the iPhone (don't know how he can know that as no one else seems to know that), and takes cheap shots at Windows and anything else non-Apple for no apparent reason (No, I'm not a MS fan but what do they have to do with this Palm phone?).



    Come on, AppleInsider, couldn't you have someone review Apple products who wasn't so clearly biased? It doesn't do much for your site's journalistic integrity to have such flagrant propaganda being posted as a review.



    And before it's said, I know no one shoved this article down my throat (but I sure as h*ll wish there was a way I could throw it back up).





    Yeah the Apple faithful always apologize for Apple and let us know what we really "don't need" they have more excuses than a pregnant Nun.



    If the phone was on par price wise with other smart phones then you can make excuses but not when its 700.00 before you get out the door with tax and accessories.



    This is why Verizon told Apple to get lost it just wasn't worth it to them, smart phones on average are mostly for corporate use, yes people with a over inflated self worth that feel the need to be connected all the time buy them also but as a rule Apple has never made a dent in the corporate world with anything.



    The simple fact is Apple has had a great two years not because of Apple but because of the Intel name and the fact you can now install Windows on Apple hardware to make up for the lack of OsX third party apps.



    You can just go down the line. Apple TV is a joke, new iMac met with very mixed reivew even though I like them, iLife 08 , imovie has been getting killed, iWorks, yeah thats really going to replace office, and while we are talking about office how about leaving in the VBA extentions for Excel.



    The fact is Apple makes a good stable product most of the time, and people like the way their stuff looks. Their OS is fairly soild and if your going to work with images and movies then a Apple product works quite well. However if you actually need to interact with the other 96% of the world that uses MS based products and third party software that support that OS then a mac or any Apple product is going to fall short of expectations, in many cases very short.



    Apple makes products that work well with other Apple products and apps however they fall very short on having them work well with the rest of the world.



    The iphone will be no different and for the exception of ipods Apple will never have any real market share of anything. The only reason ipods have such a huge market share is they are mostly used by windows users.



    People can debate this tell me im full of shit but 30 years of history is hard to dispute.
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